Canon 45D
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Slim3001
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I would go with the Canon 40D m8 £619 maybe find it cheaper still then get £100 back from Canon so on the above price your getting the Canon 40D for £519
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/product/default.aspx?sku=1021790&go=kits_bundles&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=canon+40D
http://www.warehouseexpress.com/product/default.aspx?sku=1021790&go=kits_bundles&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=canon+40D
Craikeybaby
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As mentionned above I would got for the 40D for roughly the same price, you will be getting more for your money!
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40D is £599 less £100 cashback at http://www.mifsuds.com/
nigelcampbell
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Just playing devil's advocate - but in what way are you getting more for your money? Apart from the Magnesium Alloy body and the (questionable) weather proofing - doesn't the 450D have the same circuitry but with a higher pixel count?
Craikeybaby
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A lot more to hold onto for a start! I find the ergonomics of the X0D series much better than the XX0D series, bigger bodies, thumb wheel LCD on the top etc.
If you can get into a camera shop that has both go and have a play to see which suits you better...
If you can get into a camera shop that has both go and have a play to see which suits you better...
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There's nothing wrong with the 450D at all Nigel, in fact it's a lot of camera for the money, but the differences in build quality are pretty significant.
The 450D has an anticipated shutter life of only 50,000 actuations (against 100,000 for the 40D) so a heavy user could soon make serious inroads into that limit.
The continuous frame rate of the 450D is only 3.5 frames per second, against 6.5 per second for the 40D
The top shutter speed on the 450D is 1/4000th against 1/8000th on the 40D.
The 40D has three user selectable custom modes which I don't believe the 450D has.
The 40D has the wider ISO range.
I'm sure there are other differences, but just these make the camera a better buy for the serious user.
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Also handle some Nikons and see what fits best in your hand. I have big mitts and have always found Nikon fit me better.
If you are going to be holding a camera for extended periods of time comfort is an important factor.
Both brands take good shots, you will make them great.
Most of all have fun.
If you are going to be holding a camera for extended periods of time comfort is an important factor.
Both brands take good shots, you will make them great.
Most of all have fun.
nigelcampbell
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OK valid point (though 50,000 shots is lot, unless you're snap happy)
Never use continuous shutter.
Wow - never been over 2000th ! (don't do motorsport)
Not really sure what use this would be unless you shoot in 3 stable conditions.
Not really - a little higher in custom settings but who goes over 1200??
Ah, now we get to it, I'm not having a go at you. I just feel there's a bit of kit snobbery going on - the 450D is a "prosumer" camera - and whilst it actually out performs the 40D in a number of significant areas (oddly enough the areas which give improved image quality); it is considered to be inferior by a lot of forum users (perhaps the ones who can't use a camera without adding a battery grip to make it look more "pro".
Just a thought (far be it from me to start a riot)
8utters
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The 450D is not a prosumer camera, it's an entry level/amatur grade DSLR. The 40D is a prosumer DSLR.
The 450D doen't actually out perform the 40D on anything really, even on image quality. People often dismiss cameras based on how many megapixels they have. Yes the 450D has 2 more (which is not actually going to make a noticable difference anyway) but the 40D has a better sensor. It will outperform the 450D by a LONG way in low light situations and at higher ISOs. You can shoot on 1600 on a 40D in some situations and find very little noise at all. Do the same on a 400D/450D and the amount of noise would be horrendous. The 400D/450D should not really be used above 800.
It has plenty of features that are the same (like liveview, 3" LCD etc) but the 450D still won't realy do anything better than the 40D.
Always remember that megapixels are completely irrelevent if you have a poor quality sensor, or poor quality lens. Infact MP count should definatly not be one of the most important specs when choosing a new DSLR. The reason they made the 450D 12 mega pixel is that it's designed to cater for the amatur / getting-into-photography market and most of the target customers in this market look at MP count before anything else (and in some cases will base the entire decision on a camera by the amount of mega pixels it has).
Don't get me wrong, the 450D looks like a great camera, if I was starting out in photography (again) i'd get a 450D for sure.
The 450D doen't actually out perform the 40D on anything really, even on image quality. People often dismiss cameras based on how many megapixels they have. Yes the 450D has 2 more (which is not actually going to make a noticable difference anyway) but the 40D has a better sensor. It will outperform the 450D by a LONG way in low light situations and at higher ISOs. You can shoot on 1600 on a 40D in some situations and find very little noise at all. Do the same on a 400D/450D and the amount of noise would be horrendous. The 400D/450D should not really be used above 800.
It has plenty of features that are the same (like liveview, 3" LCD etc) but the 450D still won't realy do anything better than the 40D.
Always remember that megapixels are completely irrelevent if you have a poor quality sensor, or poor quality lens. Infact MP count should definatly not be one of the most important specs when choosing a new DSLR. The reason they made the 450D 12 mega pixel is that it's designed to cater for the amatur / getting-into-photography market and most of the target customers in this market look at MP count before anything else (and in some cases will base the entire decision on a camera by the amount of mega pixels it has).
Don't get me wrong, the 450D looks like a great camera, if I was starting out in photography (again) i'd get a 450D for sure.
Byker28i
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Me - I use ISO 3200 and it's not that grainy i.e.
I put 40,000 shots through my 300d in 3 years. Amazing how many you can shoot at a football match - and how many more with 6.5 frames a sec.
Now I've not seen the 450D, but never bought the 400D because of size and feel. It just doesn't look right with my big lens on (100-400) and didn't feel right/balenced. hence I bought the 40D.
There's quite a few options missing in the menu as well on the 400D compared to the 40D, which wasn't noticable until I stretched myself on a photocourse.
Jelster
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In which case, for YOU, the 450 would be a "better" solution. However it's priced at a point very similar to the 40D, and you get better PERFORMANCE from the 40....
As already stated, the 450D doesn't out perform the 40D, it just does things differently. And putting a battery grip on a camera provides heavy users (especially those doing portraits) with more comfortable handling. But I guess from your statements above, that wouldn't worry you either....
So, when you get your 450D, I'd like to see a review.
Steve
nigelcampbell
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um... it has the same sensor - they have just fitted more pixels on it - so yes there will be some noise issues at high ISO - I'm just asking, how often do you shoot at ISO above 800 (for me it's never, I would just use a tripod)
If it has more pixels it sure isn't the same sensor is it?
More pixels = smaller photosites = more noise.
I've used >ISO800 quite a few times now and found it more than useable (unlike I did with my 350D).
bradkb
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Having just upgraded from a 400D to the 40D, I was shocked looking at the shutter count on selling the 400D, having taken over 8000 shots, considering I bought it in November and sold it in March, thats almost one fifth of its lifes gone in those 5 months...... food for thought!
Also when I had the 400D I never went above 800 ISO, but now with a camera that I am confident can handle higher iso, have regularly been at 1600 (indoor ice hockey game), and the more I use the camera and expand my shooting the more I expand on what I need from the camera, for me the 40D ticks all the boxes and more.
8utters
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No it dosen't, the 40D's sensor has more and improved microlenses (compared to the 400D) making it more sensitive and better at higher ISOs.
The 450D sensor is the same as the 400D just with 2 more megapixels.
stylgeo
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OK valid point (though 50,000 shots is lot, unless you're snap happy)
Never use continuous shutter.
Wow - never been over 2000th ! (don't do motorsport)
Not really sure what use this would be unless you shoot in 3 stable conditions.
Not really - a little higher in custom settings but who goes over 1200??
Ah, now we get to it, I'm not having a go at you. I just feel there's a bit of kit snobbery going on - the 450D is a "prosumer" camera - and whilst it actually out performs the 40D in a number of significant areas (oddly enough the areas which give improved image quality); it is considered to be inferior by a lot of forum users (perhaps the ones who can't use a camera without adding a battery grip to make it look more "pro".
Just a thought (far be it from me to start a riot)
Well, having the 400D myself I can assure you that I find every single aspect you discounted above a serious limiting factor in my photography.
1) Continuous shutter. Try birds in flight, sports or just running after your children
2)Shutter speed. Try an f/1.4 lens on a relatively bright day at f/1.4. At ISO 100, shutter speed 1/4000 you will get each and every photo over exposed. I was shooting with the Sigma 30mm f/1.4 and i really wanted that f/1.4 effect but I had to stop down to f/2 to correctly expose my photos because the shutterspeed was blinking at 1/4000 and all the photos were blown out. I was seriously considering going home and bringing my ND filters.
3)You really can't be saying that having 3 different custom modes is a bad thing????
4)I certainly would LOVE having the ability to shoot at iso 1600 and above. Even with the nifty fifty or the sigma 30mm f/1.4, trying to get good shots at parties, clubs, concerts, dance competitions (I used to work in an advertising company as a photographer as a second job in the weekends, nothing much really), the shutterspeeds you are gonna get even at f/1.4 force you to boost your ISO as high as it gets.
If I could I would definitely go for a 40D NOW. But I made a pact with my self, not to upgrade my camera bodies that often. When the 40D first appeared in the market, even before looking at it's specs I was sure that I would want one, but I decided that I would first let my 400D die on me and go for the 50D. The 400D does most of the things I want it to do. Well actually I learned to live with it, but if I were to choose now, I would definitely go for a 40D.
EDIT: as for the shutter actuations, well, I've had the 400D since October 2006, that's roughly 17 months. The picture count started from zero 3 times now. Tha'ts 30000 photos taken in 17 months. You will be amazed by how quick a 4GB card fills in just one outing.
Ah, now we get to it, I'm not having a go at you. I just feel there's a bit of kit snobbery going on - the 450D is a "prosumer" camera - and whilst it actually out performs the 40D in a number of significant areas (oddly enough the areas which give improved image quality); it is considered to be inferior by a lot of forum users (perhaps the ones who can't use a camera without adding a battery grip to make it look more "pro".
Just a thought (far be it from me to start a riot)
I don't think this is the case at all. The 450D is a good camera in its own right, but frankly the 40D is a better camera for all the reasons previously mentioned. I also own a 350D as well as the 40D, and although it was a great starter camera it simply doesn't come out of the bag unless I need a second body - it would be the same case if I owned a 400D.
One concern I would personally have with the 450D, above and beyond everything else, is that with a 12MP sensor, I'd guess you're going to get a lot more noise than you'd see with a 40D or even a 400D. You need to consider whether that's going to affect your photography.
Honestly, with the cashback on the 40D you'd be silly not to go for it. There are some absolutely ridiculous deals on at the moment.