Canon 24-70 2.8

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jonoooo125

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I'm looking into getting one at the minute, obviously there is a new one coming out so I have a couple of questions...

1)is there any point in getting the mark 2 over the original (for what I'm using it for below, obviously for most people there is a point as it will be worth the improvement)?

2)if the original, is it better to get one now for about £800 second hand or wait until the mark 2 is released then buy one hopefully cheaper from all the people selling theirs off in favour of the newer version?

3)if the mark 2 version, I do not understand why, if $1=£0.63, it is £2299 on wex but $2299(according to google right now £1435) on adorama? It doesn't seem fair really

3a)am I allowed to get a cheap flight to America, buy the lens and bring it back? I could spend £850 on flights and still get the lens cheaper, and if I don't want to pay for a hotel, enjoy a nice day in new York or somewhere and still have the lens cheaper, this seems off to me, or am I missing something?

The only thing the lens will be used for is to take pictures of my family, my feeling at the minute is to wait for the mark 2 to be released then buy a mark 1 a bit cheaper second hand

Thanks
 
1) probably, wait for the reviews
2) you have answered that in 3). At that price there is no reason for mk1 to get cheaper
3) erm, no. That's why UK is know as a treasure island :lol:

P.S. you'd really want to use a FF camera with that, otherwise it will be somewhat an overkill. On crop 17-55 IS is the way to go with IS and much cheaper.
 
Once the mark 2 is out my guess is that the second hand price of the mark 1 will probably go up for some time to come. Once they stop production few people will be able to afford the mark 2 so mark 1s will be harder to find, the market won't be flooded with upgraders.

Nothing stopping you flying off to New York but you do have to pay Duty, Import Tax etc when you get back with a nice new shiny lens. Once you add those costs on you won't be saving so much.
 
1) Nobody knows how much better the Mk2 is yet. Canon's performance graphs suggest it is very impressive.

2) The Mk1 lens is no longer available new and early indications are that used prices are rising due to the high cost of the Mk2.

3) You're not comparing like with like. US prices are quoted ex-tax, and you need to add duty and VAT.

3a) If you buy a lens outside the EU you are liable for duty and VAT on entry.
 
I never thought of it like that, that the prices would go up because there would be fewer, I just assumed more people would upgrade and sell off their mark 1's. The tax and stuff was what I was wondering about, I guess there's not much point in the trip after all, thanks for the quick replies :)
 
jonoooo125 said:
I never thought of it like that, that the prices would go up because there would be fewer, I just assumed more people would upgrade and sell off their mark 1's. The tax and stuff was what I was wondering about, I guess there's not much point in the trip after all, thanks for the quick replies :)
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Yes, and as Daugirdas said, the lens you should probably be looking at is the EF-S 17-55.
 
Well, I've been looking at the 5dii and reading about the possible 6D in the next couple of weeks which has made me think the 24-70 would be a better choice for the long term, I don't really go that wide anyway and if I stick to aps-c, I might spend the money on a 10-22 or save for the 8-15 fisheye
 
jonoooo125 said:
Well, I've been looking at the 5dii and reading about the possible 6D in the next couple of weeks which has made me think the 24-70 would be a better choice for the long term, I don't really go that wide anyway and if I stick to aps-c, I might spend the money on a 10-22 or save for the 8-15 fisheye
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Then don't buy a new lens until you have decided on the camera format first.
 
1) The mk2 is supposed to be sharper, but I think the mk1 is sharp enough for most uses - especially for what you shoot.

2) Can't see the mk1 price dropping too much, but still, try and get a good deal and you won't lose much if you decide to sell after a few years.

3) I don't get the logic of flying to the US just to buy equipment, unless you're planning on going there for a holiday. Otherwise, when you add travel to and from the aiport (UK and US), food, accommodation, etc, I can't believe you're gonna be saving much (if anything) for all the hassle. Add to the fact that there are suppliers in the UK that import the goods for you and pass on much savings, you could argue that you're taking the long, convoluted route to a cheaper price for your lens.

Kerso (flashcamera.co.uk) sells (when it becomes available) the mk2 for £1800.00. You probably get a little off that if you pay by BT.

Panamoz.com haven't listed the mk2 but if you drop them an email they will confirm whether they can source one and the price...which will probably be even cheaper.

Also, if you are set on going to the US and you know someone who lives there, the best way to save more money on the advertised price is to get the US resident to order the item from another state - that way they will not need to pay the state tax.
 
daugirdas said:
Of course if OP is planning to have a holiday in the US, I can see nothing wrong with that. I would suggest losing the box and manuals before coming back.
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Totally...which is why I stated "unless you're planning on going there for a holiday". ;)

Far cheaper to buy from one of the sources I quoted if you're not.
 
daugirdas said:
Of course if OP is planning to have a holiday in the US, I can see nothing wrong with that. I would suggest losing the box and manuals before coming back.
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Why do people suggest this daft trick? Lots of threads on the wisdom of trying it, but do you think customs officials have just fallen out of a tree or something?

If you don't declare illegally imported goods, you can be 100% certain that if they are found in your bag you will be lucky to get away with just paying the duty and VAT. You also run the risk of getting the gear confiscated, paying a fine, and getting a criminal record.
 
Thanks for all the replies, I didn't realise it was illegal to buy yourself something outside of the uk and bring it home which was my reason for asking, one of the last times I went over to see my grandparents, we bought Nintendo DS' for me and my brothers because they weren't out on the uk yet, nothing happened that time but it was about 10 years ago now, maybe rules have changed, I just assumed I could do the same with a lens, never mind.
 
HoppyUK said:
Why do people suggest this daft trick? Lots of threads on the wisdom of trying it, but do you think customs officials have just fallen out of a tree or something?

If you don't declare illegally imported goods, you can be 100% certain that if they are found in your bag you will be lucky to get away with just paying the duty and VAT. You also run the risk of getting the gear confiscated, paying a fine, and getting a criminal record.
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Well how on earth will they tell that your UK bought 5DIII was not bought in US, and same with your new shiny rolex? Or if I bought Armani suit to replace worn out clothes in US, and wear that do I declare it? New shoes? This is getting messy, easier not to go outside of EU at all then :thinking:
 
daugirdas said:
Well how on earth will they tell that your UK bought 5DIII was not bought in US, and same with your new shiny rolex? Or if I bought Armani suit to replace worn out clothes in US, and wear that do I declare it? New shoes? This is getting messy, easier not to go outside of EU at all then :thinking:
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Because they're not stupid, and they know you can buy some goods cheaper abroad, mainly because there's no UK duty and VAT applied.

If you come through with a 5D3 and shiny 24-70 Mk2 that looks brand new, they're going to ask you about it. If they're not satisfied with your answers, they'll ask to see receipts. If you haven't got them, they can check the serial numbers in seconds and if you're still telling porkies you'll then be in serious trouble.

It happened to me, and while I was totally innocent they confiscated everything and it took a few very unpleasant hours and a lot of phone calls before they believed who I was and why I had so much new gear. That was in the days before computerised checks could be done.
 
HoppyUK said:
Because they're not stupid, and they know you can buy some goods cheaper abroad, mainly because there's no UK duty and VAT applied.

If you come through with a 5D3 and shiny 24-70 Mk2 that looks brand new, they're going to ask you about it. If they're not satisfied with your answers, they'll ask to see receipts. If you haven't got them, they can check the serial numbers in seconds and if you're still telling porkies you'll then be in serious trouble.

It happened to me, and while I was totally innocent they confiscated everything and it took a few very unpleasant hours and a lot of phone calls before they believed who I was and why I had so much new gear. That was in the days before computerised checks could be done.
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Don't fancy any of that, I'll buy it in the uk and if I travel, I'll take reciepts
 
There was a review of all the 24-70mm f2.8's in Amateur photographer magazine about a month ago. They reviewed both the mk1 and 2. It really isn't much in it at all, so little in fact i can't imagine many people going to the expensive of replacing a mk1, so don't expect a flooded market of mk1's.
 
jonoooo125 said:
Thanks for all the replies, I didn't realise it was illegal to buy yourself something outside of the uk and bring it home which was my reason for asking, one of the last times I went over to see my grandparents, we bought Nintendo DS' for me and my brothers because they weren't out on the uk yet, nothing happened that time but it was about 10 years ago now, maybe rules have changed, I just assumed I could do the same with a lens, never mind.
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It is not illegal to buy items abroad and bring them back with you but you are required to declare them and pay the duty and VAT.
 
If its under £390 you don't need to pay anything.
 
I have never been searched by customs and I haven't heard of such an incident happening to another photographer buying gear abroad. However, there is always a possibility I guess...but I reckon the chances are very low. But yes, officially, it's illegal to take this route.

However, what do we all do when we take our gear (purchased second hand with no receipts) abroad? There's no way of proving its mine on the way back if customs took that approach. It's more likely that buying several of the same lenses, all packed neatly in your suitcase would attract the suspicions of HMRC.
 
There's a lot of scaremongering going on here people. I'm not saying its clever or right, but many people buy expensive stuff abroad and don't declare it when coming back home because things are often so much cheaper!

Personally I've bought lenses, electronics, clothes, watches, jewellery, diamond rings and many other things back into the country without declaring them and have never had a problem (he says fingers crossed, touching wood!). I travel abroad a lot with work (over 40 flights this year already - 6 more before the end of the month!) & haven't been stopped once coming back home. I also regularly take my entire camera bag with me (2 bodies, 3 L lenses, 2 other lenses, filters galore etc.) and have never been asked to prove that I haven't bought them abroad and am not declaring them.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it's just a very small chance of you getting caught. Even if you do get caught, chances are if its your first time all you'd get is a verbal slap on the wrist, made to pay the VAT and told not to do it again!! Fines, confiscation & criminal records are only really likely to happen to serial offenders.

And before people start to take a moral high ground and say that this is wrong, I don't disagree. It is. However given the frankly grossly excessive amount of tax I have deducted from my payslip month on month, year on year for very little return (I certainly don't get my money's worth out of the system!!!), I can honestly say my conscience is clear. (and breathe!!!)

Sorry for the soapbox rant, but given the economic challenges most of us face today, there's nothing wrong in trying to say a few pennies (or many pounds!) here and there. And I totally agree with Pridash, there's no need to take a flight specifically to buy something cheaper - just buy an import from one of the many traders that will do the hard work for you!
 
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danski said:
There's a lot of scaremongering going on here people. I'm not saying its clever or right, but many people buy expensive stuff abroad and don't declare it when coming back home because things are often so much cheaper!

Personally I've bought lenses, electronics, clothes, watches, jewellery, diamond rings and many other things back into the country without declaring them and have never had a problem (he says fingers crossed, touching wood!). I travel abroad a lot with work (over 40 flights this year already - 6 more before the end of the month!) & haven't been stopped once coming back home. I also regularly take my entire camera bag with me (2 bodies, 3 L lenses, 2 other lenses, filters galore etc.) and have never been asked to prove that I haven't bought them abroad and am not declaring them.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, it's just a very small chance of you getting caught. Even if you do get caught, chances are if its your first time all you'd get is a verbal slap on the wrist, made to pay the VAT and told not to do it again!! Fines, confiscation & criminal records are only really likely to happen to serial offenders.

And before people start to take a moral high ground and say that this is wrong, I don't disagree. It is. However given the frankly grossly excessive amount of tax I have deducted from my payslip month on month, year on year for very little return (I certainly don't get my money's worth out of the system!!!), I can honestly say my conscience is clear. (and breathe!!!)

Sorry for the soapbox rant, but given the economic challenges most of us face today, there's nothing wrong in trying to say a few pennies (or many pounds!) here and there. And I totally agree with Pridash, there's no need to take a flight specifically to buy something cheaper - just buy an import from one of the many traders that will do the hard work for you!
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So your advice then, is to bring in what you like, not to declare it, and don't worry if you get caught because you'll only get a telling off? After you've whinged about how much income tax you pay and how you're only trying to a fair deal out of the system...

Good luck with that.
 
HoppyUK said:
So your advice then, is to bring in what you like, not to declare it, and don't worry if you get caught because you'll only get a telling off? After you've whinged about how much income tax you pay and how you're only trying to a fair deal out of the system...

Good luck with that.
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I'm not trying to give any advice, just sharing my personal experience. Clearly you take a chance if you bring things in undeclared, however from my perspective at least, the odds are stacked in your favour. If I were to give any advice, it would be to only bring a small amount in each trip.
 
danski said:
I'm not trying to give any advice, just sharing my personal experience. Clearly you take a chance if you bring things in undeclared, however from my perspective at least, the odds are stacked in your favour. If I were to give any advice, it would be to only bring a small amount in each trip.
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And that is why you are paying so much tax that you are whining about, people avoiding paying taxes due.

Not saying it is right or wrong, but don't complain about one thing (you paying high taxes) and then recommend someone does the very thing that leads to it.
 
Ploddles said:
And that is why you are paying so much tax that you are whining about, people avoiding paying taxes due.

Not saying it is right or wrong, but don't complain about one thing (you paying high taxes) and then recommend someone does the very thing that leads to it.
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The high taxes in the UK are not due to the lack of taxes being paid. I'm not an economist but I know there are other factors involved there.

Even though some are speaking factually about the wrongs of tax avoidance, it sounds a little like they are on a high horse. Picking on someone who "imports" the odd bit of gear while travelling (but paying all other tax) is kinda unfair given that there are umpteen ebayers trading in thousands of pounds of gear without any tax liability. Again, I'm not saying its right for individuals to do it, but I'm just providing some balance.
 
If the MK2 is £1800 I can see the MK1 2nd hand going up in demand. Choice. 24-70 Mk2 or Mk1 2nd hand and 17-40f4 L new and some change !
 
rjbell said:
There was a review of all the 24-70mm f2.8's in Amateur photographer magazine about a month ago. They reviewed both the mk1 and 2. It really isn't much in it at all, so little in fact i can't imagine many people going to the expensive of replacing a mk1, so don't expect a flooded market of mk1's.
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A friend lent me a copy of AP, and from the reviews I've seen I'll be sticking with my mk1.

It's not like the 70-200 update which was a massive leap in image quality.
 
Ploddles said:
And that is why you are paying so much tax that you are whining about, people avoiding paying taxes due.
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Wait you seriously believe that don't you :lol::lol:

Hodders said:
If the MK2 is £1800 I can see the MK1 2nd hand going up in demand. Choice. 24-70 Mk2 or Mk1 2nd hand and 17-40f4 L new and some change !
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I can see that happening too, Pro's will of course buy the new one if they need a new lens but I can't see them rushing out to upgrade so there won't be a flood on the seciond hand market and the enthusaist probably can't justify the cost of the mk2 so will push up demand for second hand mk1s this is probably already happening if you look at some of the prices being asked in the members market.

Edtog said:
A friend lent me a copy of AP, and from the reviews I've seen I'll be sticking with my mk1.

It's not like the 70-200 update which was a massive leap in image quality.
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Got to agree to justify the price it needed to be a game changer like the new 70-200 or at the very least include a stabliser.
 
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Edtog said:
A friend lent me a copy of AP, and from the reviews I've seen I'll be sticking with my mk1.

It's not like the 70-200 update which was a massive leap in image quality.
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IF mk2 wide open allows shooting the same quality images as 70-200mm II, I don't want to even know about 17-40 and the old 24-70mm. The old one is not bad by the way, just not in 70-200mm league; and I am not loaded with cash just for the record.

I'll wait for the digital picture and photozone.de crop samples and reviews before I make any conclusions about the performance though.
 
daugirdas said:
IF mk2 wide open allows shooting the same quality images as 70-200mm II, I don't want to even know about 17-40 and the old 24-70mm. The old one is not bad by the way, just not in 70-200mm league; and I am not loaded with cash just for the record.

I'll wait for the digital picture and photozone.de crop samples and reviews before I make any conclusions about the performance though.
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Totally agree with that, if they have managed the same leap in performance as the 70-200 mkii and also reduced the field curvature and distortion at 24mm then it would sell like hot cakes to the pro's and rich enthusiasts but the early reviews don't support this.

Like you say best to wait on the respected sites like photozone
 
jonoooo125 said:
I'm looking into getting one at the minute, obviously there is a new one coming out so I have a couple of questions...

1)is there any point in getting the mark 2 over the original (for what I'm using it for below, obviously for most people there is a point as it will be worth the improvement)?

2)if the original, is it better to get one now for about £800 second hand or wait until the mark 2 is released then buy one hopefully cheaper from all the people selling theirs off in favour of the newer version?

3)if the mark 2 version, I do not understand why, if $1=£0.63, it is £2299 on wex but $2299(according to google right now £1435) on adorama? It doesn't seem fair really

3a)am I allowed to get a cheap flight to America, buy the lens and bring it back? I could spend £850 on flights and still get the lens cheaper, and if I don't want to pay for a hotel, enjoy a nice day in new York or somewhere and still have the lens cheaper, this seems off to me, or am I missing something?

The only thing the lens will be used for is to take pictures of my family, my feeling at the minute is to wait for the mark 2 to be released then buy a mark 1 a bit cheaper second hand

Thanks
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I worked it out if you were to order it from B&H, but the same would apply for Adorama, though their shipping costs might be different, I have'nt checked.

In the US it is currently $2299 from B&H, which is £1430.57 at this writing. If you were to import it to the UK from the States with the added postage, import duty and VAT, you would still only pay £1876.76.

Product value: £1430.57
Shipping costs: £35.19
Total customs value: £1465.76

- Duty 6.7%: £98.21
- VAT 20%: £312.79

Total import duty & taxes due: £411.00

Total landed cost: £1876.76
 
pridash said:
It seems like the mk2 is looking stellar. Better at 70mm than the 70-200 IS II. ;)

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/09/canon-24-70-f2-8-ii-resolution-tests

But I still stand by the mk1 - it's a great lens. And I'm probably one of the few people that thinks the new lens hood looks pathetic! :D
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Just saw that too - it beats 24 TSE II! Looks aside (mk1 is brilliant monster :D) I want this so badly, hopefully they improved build quality as well (fed up with broken collars). Mk1 better go up in price soon :lol:
 
daugirdas said:
Just saw that too - it beats 24 TSE II! Looks aside (mk1 is brilliant monster :D) I want this so badly, hopefully they improved build quality as well (fed up with broken collars). Mk1 better go up in price soon :lol:
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I understand that it's lighter and feels more plasticy...so it doesn't sound like an improvement in that regard. However, it's the optics really thy matter the most, even though I'm partial to the old hood! :D

Do not like the fact that it looks too similar to the 24-105 as well now!
 
pridash said:
I understand that it's lighter and feels more plasticy...so it doesn't sound like an improvement in that regard. However, it's the optics really thy matter the most, even though I'm partial to the old hood! :D

Do not like the fact that it looks too similar to the 24-105 as well now!
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Yes, that means I will need to get 70-200 f/2.8 (as opposed to f/4) or 300mm to keep embarrassing people :D

Plastic is not necessarily bad. 100mm L is all right, while 24-70mm mk1 is too heavy which is what causes the internals to break without any obvious reason in just a year or two - or is that internals are made of cheap plastic?
 
daugirdas said:
Yes, that means I will need to get 70-200 f/2.8 (as opposed to f/4) or 300mm to keep embarrassing people :D

Plastic is not necessarily bad. 100mm L is all right, while 24-70mm mk1 is too heavy which is what causes the internals to break without any obvious reason in just a year or two - or is that internals are made of cheap plastic?
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Yep plastic ain't that bad I guess. However, I don't think the mk1 is that heavy tbh. I actually love the weight! :D
 
pridash said:
Yep plastic ain't that bad I guess. However, I don't think the mk1 is that heavy tbh. I actually love the weight! :D
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it's not about the love or hate of weight... The weight of the extending bit is heavy enough to exert enough force to wreck the lens collar. Or if you like it it wasn't back-heavy enough to balance properly
 
daugirdas said:
it's not about the love or hate of weight... The weight of the extending bit is heavy enough to exert enough force to wreck the lens collar. Or if you like it it wasn't back-heavy enough to balance properly
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Oh wow I haven't heard of that being an issue before. Certainly on my copy I've never ever felt like it wasn't balanced in any way.
 
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