gpa
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Sample pictures, official tests ?
Canon 1DX release
- Thread starter George
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Sample pictures, official tests ?
To be fair, given that the 1D X sensor is presumably using the very latest Canon sensor technology, and uses larger photo-sites than the outgoing 1D4, I'd be more surprised if the noise claims were not true.
I can't help feeling that if the 1D X was a Nikon D4s, everyone would think yep, job done. I just don't think many expected Canon to make that camera!! As someone else said, it will be quite amusing if Canon have ended up producing the high ISO Nikon follow-on, and Nikon end up producing the high MP Canon replacement. If nothing else that will produce a few wry smiles as presumably those who vociferously "defended" each makers approach will undoubtedly stick to their principles and switch brands immediately!
I can't help feeling that if the 1D X was a Nikon D4s, everyone would think yep, job done. I just don't think many expected Canon to make that camera!! As someone else said, it will be quite amusing if Canon have ended up producing the high ISO Nikon follow-on, and Nikon end up producing the high MP Canon replacement. If nothing else that will produce a few wry smiles as presumably those who vociferously "defended" each makers approach will undoubtedly stick to their principles and switch brands immediately!
gpa
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Just to be clear though, I am not saying it is untrue, simply that there has not been any tests, review and pictures ect. It may well prove to be slightly better than 2 stops over the MK 1V or possibly a little worse. I agree it would be funny if they role reversed, cannot see it happening though.
Why would you say that, as I said, in my opinion I don't see there's anything here to move Nikon Users away from their D3s, It will be very interesting to see what the D4 brings to the table. I agree it would be funny if they role reversed, cannot see it happening though.
Why would you say that, as I said, in my opinion I don't see there's anything here to move Nikon Users away from their D3s, It will be very interesting to see what the D4 brings to the table. I agree it would be funny if they role reversed, cannot see it happening though.
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IGADIZ
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Been invited to play wiht one next week by canon but its down south.. couple hundred miles too far
Stop trying to talk your self out of it. You know the long drive is unavoidable
bigrob
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It's a pity that wireless isn't build in or you could make a hotspot quickly and send a few photos to your laptop in your bag..
I wonder if they will have somewhere outside for you to shoot and something happening outside to photograph.
bigrob
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Try and find out if they are actually making these things in any numbers?
See what firmware it is running so we can see how the number changes when they are shipping.
Ask when 1D Mk IV will be discont and if production of the Dx will move to those production lines.
Cheers
From my confirmation email...
Please note, all the 1D X cameras at the show are full working models but they are pre-production samples meaning memory cards cannot be used in the camera.
He's not saying it would move Nikon users away from a D3s, he's saying that the specs are what D3s users wanting to upgrade would be hoping for. Which is true. If this were repackaged as the D4, Nikon users would be saying "yep, pretty much what I wanted". Never had guaranteed AF beyond f5.6, and a 50% MP increase with 2 stops extra high ISO (using the D3s as baseline) is quite nice.
Plus ca change.
gpa
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And I'm saying I don't believe that to be the case, looking at the x spec what would they gain ? a two stop increase over the MK1V brings it to the current performance of the D3s sensor, so no advantage other than a small increase in MP, a new 61 point auto focus as yet untried would have to offer some measurable benefit over the current 51 point system that is well tried and proven to be pretty bomb proof. what else in the x spec assuming it was a D4 would make D3s users jump ?
I think the same argument can be used for the current MK1V users, with the exception of improved iso performance they would get with the x would else is going to make the MK1v owners change ? especially as it would cost them 2k plus to do so.
I'm not saying it's a bad spec or trying to do the Nikon Verses Canon thing, I'm just saying it a nice spec but not ground breaking and certainly not going to have MK1v owners rushing to dump their kit to replace it with the x.
And again i would use the same argument for the impending D4, it going to have to be pretty spectacular to have "S" owners dumping their cameras to upgrade, time will tell on that one.
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Go to bythom.com, nikoncafe.com, or the Nikon section on Fredmiranda. Ask people you know with a D3 or D3s what woud prompt them to upgrade. Most woud say they're pretty happy, but if pushed would say what they'd want. It's been a fairly prominent thing - the D3s is at a point where it could reasonably be said that it's "enough". But what would make people upgrade is a little wider spread of AF points, a resolution bump, and a high ISO bump. If you read what I wrote, I also said a stop or two of high ISO with the D3s as baseline. Even without, people on the Nikon side weren't expecting that, they were expecting ISO to be only slightly improved but resolution, AF and metering to get a boost.
That's what many people generally wanted from a D4.
As to what else in the 1Dx spec would make peope upgrade? If the metering sensor works as it could, the coupling of that to the AF meter will be huge for continuous AF accuracy, not to mention being able to tweak the automatic metering according to subject. Projecting from the Sony sensor performance, the expansion in dynamic range should be pretty awesome unless Canon's engineers have taken a nap over the past 18-24 months (last new sensor was the one in the 7D,60D,550D and 600D).
The hurfblurf over the 1Dx is hilarious. After two years of complaining at the lack of a D3s equivalent, it arrives and there's a lot of hot air expelled because a sketchy AF option was removed in favour of being vastly improved at other apertures (the AF system gained c. 20 cross points with f/5.6 and above lenses), and a barely perceptible level of nominal resolution was theoretically lost. (and not lost in fact, because a 7D attached to the equivalent lenses gets you more resolution with the appropriate level of noise performance and dynamic range than anything but a 50MP FF sensor would with).
This is the internet though, so there will be more hot air. Just like with the D7000 and simultaneous front and back focus on the same body
, or "noise" from the 7D's sensor and not user incompetence.
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gpa
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I think we are arguing from different sides, The poster said "I can't help feeling that if the 1D X was a Nikon D4s, everyone would think yep, job done." I'm saying if these new "x" specs had just been released as the new D4 there would not be a rush to change, why would they ? It does not offer much of an upgrade over the current D3s.
I already belong to those forums and have spoken to enough D3/D3s owners to know they are hoping for something rather special, a little like the intro of the original D3 which was a game changer. Whether Nikon actually do this remains to be seen.
Fair play, I think you're right there.
I don't think at this stage in DSLR Development we should be expecting every product iteration to be massively groundbreaking. the D1-D2-D3-D4 progression has been, but that has been every 4ish years. The intermediate models have been nice, but not groundbreaking. That the 1Dx has not got 1D4 owners salivating seems about right to me - it should be 1d3 owners it targets, and then the 1Dx2/whatever it's called should go after the 1D4 owners. I don't think the state of the art is advancing quickly enough to justify more than that except for the desire to justify the ownership of the
latest and greatest.
IGADIZ
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Aha... missed that bit with all the excitement. Disabled with firmware maybe?
Will do.
Mmmm. good idea, I wonder if they'll have the new wireless units there for us to try out, if so I'll give it a go.
HoppyUK
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I think maybe us stills guys are overlooking the increasing importance of video for professionals in the 1DX. I know nothing about it and have no interest, but by all accounts it's class leading.
Agree. The groundbreaking stuff will be mirrorless, and that's probably a little way off for pro-spec cameras.
gpa
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Been invited to play wiht one next week by canon but its down south.. couple hundred miles too far
I'm sure you will get your turn
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IGADIZ
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Are you going both days?.. If so, we can exchange mobiles via PM and meet up for a wee beer on Tuesday.
Gadget-Guy
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Can't see this being a replacement for my 1D MKIV to be honest even though the specs on paper look fantastic and after being an early purchaser of the MKIII after all of the hype that surrounded that to find out that the A/F system was a joke compared to my previous MKIIN I will not be an early purchaser.
Once the full production model is out and being used so as to be able to see some real world results from some of the agency togs and get an idea of quality of high ISO images and A/F performance along with buffer size for RAW etc then it may be a decent upgrade in the future for my 7D as the 1DMKIV serves it purpose very well for sports photography.
My biggest concern will be if the A/F system will function well enough in low light to keep up with the native high ISO performance as the MKIV struggles in this area but will keep my fingers crossed that this is the Canon release that we have all been waiting for.
Once the full production model is out and being used so as to be able to see some real world results from some of the agency togs and get an idea of quality of high ISO images and A/F performance along with buffer size for RAW etc then it may be a decent upgrade in the future for my 7D as the 1DMKIV serves it purpose very well for sports photography.
My biggest concern will be if the A/F system will function well enough in low light to keep up with the native high ISO performance as the MKIV struggles in this area but will keep my fingers crossed that this is the Canon release that we have all been waiting for.
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IGADIZ
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:bang::bang: I feel sorry for the camera assistant who had to rewind and change the film in less than 3 seconds.
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HoppyUK
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I feel sorry for the camera assistant who had to rewind and change the film in less than 3 seconds.
They had optional 250-exposure bulk film backs
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Sorry, Ivan I've been off line for a couple of days, yes I'm there for both days, will pm u my mob.
Cheers, George
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Looks like the first review is online
http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/25/canon-eos-1d-x-hands-on-video/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/25/canon-eos-1d-x-hands-on-video/
IGADIZ
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This from the CPS platinum rep..
F/8 maximum aperture autofocus on a 1DX is dead. It is a hardware issue and it won't be fixed with a firmware update.
Also, no mirror lock up button or, custom assignment for this function.
Although, when I pressed him, he said " if enough people enquire about it, we will implement it for the production model" (mirror lockup button that is).
So, get those emails going.
What's the point of giving us 14fps (which needs mirror up) to capture that critical moment and then force us in to a 2 step implementation set up. Is like giving us a Ferrari with a nail driven through the brake pedal.
No cards or wi-fi allowed so, no images to share. I did had a play with a EF 400mm f/2.8 MKII and a 2xMKIII converter and images looked awesome on the screen.
Focuses real fast in low light conditions. ISO 204800 not a gimmick, It is actually usable. ISO 51200 looks very clean on the small screen.
I have been invited to a yet undisclosed location/date for a proper test drive. I will ask more pertinent questions then.
PS: Good to meet you George. Have fun tomorrow.
F/8 maximum aperture autofocus on a 1DX is dead. It is a hardware issue and it won't be fixed with a firmware update.
Also, no mirror lock up button or, custom assignment for this function.
Although, when I pressed him, he said " if enough people enquire about it, we will implement it for the production model" (mirror lockup button that is).
So, get those emails going.
What's the point of giving us 14fps (which needs mirror up) to capture that critical moment and then force us in to a 2 step implementation set up. Is like giving us a Ferrari with a nail driven through the brake pedal.
No cards or wi-fi allowed so, no images to share. I did had a play with a EF 400mm f/2.8 MKII and a 2xMKIII converter and images looked awesome on the screen.
Focuses real fast in low light conditions. ISO 204800 not a gimmick, It is actually usable. ISO 51200 looks very clean on the small screen.
I have been invited to a yet undisclosed location/date for a proper test drive. I will ask more pertinent questions then.
PS: Good to meet you George. Have fun tomorrow.
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Gregory Hicks
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They should gove the 100-400 a revamp and lose that push pull system aswell!!!!
bigrob
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Reposting this from here http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1055238
I got to handle 3 seperate 1D-X models today, at Canon Pro Solutions, for a decent bit of time. However, we were not allowed to insert our own memory cards, and so I have no sample images to share - the door was taped over. I'm approaching this from the viewpoint of a 1Ds3 person, not a 1DIV person.
My thoughts are as follows, in no particular order. Hopefully they should prove interesting to some people.
- Feel: The feel in either orientation is fantastic, the buttons are very natural and the addition of a second joystick for portrait orientation is excellent. The dedicated live-view button is a nice touch, there's also a quick menu button of questionable worth. The near-lens mount customisable button is suprisingly usable, I was expecting to dislike it but it functions quite well.
- Autofocus: A complete joy. My opportunities to try tracking with servo were limited, but the autofocus seemed to fit my two main criteria: be fast and lock accurately. Point selection is great including expansion to surrounding points in either cross or square box type. Servo seemed to be perfectly accurate to me, but there was no fast motion near me to test. Their presentation made a big deal over the new servo algorithms & design, and I've no reason to doubt.
- Metering: A quick test of pointing the cameras into varied lighting conditions says that the new 250 odd zone system seems to be bang on, at worst about 1/3 or 2/3 stops off, no complaints whatsoever.
- Viewfinder: The electronic level & overlay displays are fantastic! I really love it. The old FEL button is now M. Fn1 instead, which by default is electronic level. Unfortunately, the customising of M. Fn 1 & 2 are limited - for example you can't set them to bring up WB Shift, which is something I use a lot. I forgot to check if they allow you to set MLU using them or not though.
- ISO Performance: Unsurpringly, at ISO 204,800 there is noise. I am judging this from the max magnified view on the back of the LCD, and no, it is not clean. It is not clean at iso 50,000 either, but markedly better. I did a fair bit of testing at iso 800-1600, and honestly, it does seem remarkably clean.
- Menu system: Excellent, I really like it. You can hold down info for an explanation of everything on the fly, and it's clear and well organised.
- Drive speed: 14fps brings a funny smile to your lips. You have to enable it via a menu, then you can select it via the normal drive button - there's no need to set MLU each time or anything like that. It works, though you lose the ability to shoot RAW & the viewfinder is black, even though it comes back afterwards. It will focus for the first frame, but after that focus and exposure are locked. With regards to the buffer, I have no idea what speed of CF card was in there, but I held down the shutter and it went and went and went. I didn't bother making a formal test of it, because of my next point.
- Banding. We were explicitly told that one of the 2 models on the table in the demo presentation had a significant banding problem. The key reason we weren't allowed to use our own CF cards yet is simple: the camera is NOT finished yet. These are very early samples, and there is a good reason it's 5 months until they're for sale - they have a lot to clear up. They will do open days for cps people to make an evaluation shoot later on, when the camera is ready.
All in, in terms of features, it's damn near perfect. The only things I could wish for were perhaps a 0.78x viewfinder and inbuilt flash ettl radio triggering ala pocketwizard. To those like me who rarely shoot above ISO 800 and 5fps is enough yet print large, and are uncomfortable with the resolution: Frankly we are in a minority. I can't tell you if the images coming out of it interpolated to 21mpix at iso 200 beat the 1Ds3, or make any evaluation of the image quality because the camera isn't finished. For that we have to wait and see. All I can tell you is about the features, which are simply excellent.
Addendum: I couldn't help but overhear a conversation between two Canon employees, and there were comments strongly hinting about something during the presentation regarding the November announcement. I really don't think it's my place to give out information that wasn't explicitly given to me, but I think a decent number of people are going to be rather happy.
^^ Added edit: A disclaimer: This may be completely wrong, and I may be misinterpreting things. I don't want to give too much weight to this at the expense of detracting from the main focus of the 1D-X.
I got to handle 3 seperate 1D-X models today, at Canon Pro Solutions, for a decent bit of time. However, we were not allowed to insert our own memory cards, and so I have no sample images to share - the door was taped over. I'm approaching this from the viewpoint of a 1Ds3 person, not a 1DIV person.
My thoughts are as follows, in no particular order. Hopefully they should prove interesting to some people.
- Feel: The feel in either orientation is fantastic, the buttons are very natural and the addition of a second joystick for portrait orientation is excellent. The dedicated live-view button is a nice touch, there's also a quick menu button of questionable worth. The near-lens mount customisable button is suprisingly usable, I was expecting to dislike it but it functions quite well.
- Autofocus: A complete joy. My opportunities to try tracking with servo were limited, but the autofocus seemed to fit my two main criteria: be fast and lock accurately. Point selection is great including expansion to surrounding points in either cross or square box type. Servo seemed to be perfectly accurate to me, but there was no fast motion near me to test. Their presentation made a big deal over the new servo algorithms & design, and I've no reason to doubt.
- Metering: A quick test of pointing the cameras into varied lighting conditions says that the new 250 odd zone system seems to be bang on, at worst about 1/3 or 2/3 stops off, no complaints whatsoever.
- Viewfinder: The electronic level & overlay displays are fantastic! I really love it. The old FEL button is now M. Fn1 instead, which by default is electronic level. Unfortunately, the customising of M. Fn 1 & 2 are limited - for example you can't set them to bring up WB Shift, which is something I use a lot. I forgot to check if they allow you to set MLU using them or not though.
- ISO Performance: Unsurpringly, at ISO 204,800 there is noise. I am judging this from the max magnified view on the back of the LCD, and no, it is not clean. It is not clean at iso 50,000 either, but markedly better. I did a fair bit of testing at iso 800-1600, and honestly, it does seem remarkably clean.
- Menu system: Excellent, I really like it. You can hold down info for an explanation of everything on the fly, and it's clear and well organised.
- Drive speed: 14fps brings a funny smile to your lips. You have to enable it via a menu, then you can select it via the normal drive button - there's no need to set MLU each time or anything like that. It works, though you lose the ability to shoot RAW & the viewfinder is black, even though it comes back afterwards. It will focus for the first frame, but after that focus and exposure are locked. With regards to the buffer, I have no idea what speed of CF card was in there, but I held down the shutter and it went and went and went. I didn't bother making a formal test of it, because of my next point.
- Banding. We were explicitly told that one of the 2 models on the table in the demo presentation had a significant banding problem. The key reason we weren't allowed to use our own CF cards yet is simple: the camera is NOT finished yet. These are very early samples, and there is a good reason it's 5 months until they're for sale - they have a lot to clear up. They will do open days for cps people to make an evaluation shoot later on, when the camera is ready.
All in, in terms of features, it's damn near perfect. The only things I could wish for were perhaps a 0.78x viewfinder and inbuilt flash ettl radio triggering ala pocketwizard. To those like me who rarely shoot above ISO 800 and 5fps is enough yet print large, and are uncomfortable with the resolution: Frankly we are in a minority. I can't tell you if the images coming out of it interpolated to 21mpix at iso 200 beat the 1Ds3, or make any evaluation of the image quality because the camera isn't finished. For that we have to wait and see. All I can tell you is about the features, which are simply excellent.
Addendum: I couldn't help but overhear a conversation between two Canon employees, and there were comments strongly hinting about something during the presentation regarding the November announcement. I really don't think it's my place to give out information that wasn't explicitly given to me, but I think a decent number of people are going to be rather happy.
^^ Added edit: A disclaimer: This may be completely wrong, and I may be misinterpreting things. I don't want to give too much weight to this at the expense of detracting from the main focus of the 1D-X.
bigrob
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Chuck Westfall interviewed about the 1Dx
http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2011/10/24/chuck-westfall-on-the-canon-eos-1d-x/
http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2011/10/24/chuck-westfall-on-the-canon-eos-1d-x/
IGADIZ
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Guys this is important.
If you are CPS, get in touch with Frankie (UK CPS rep) and share your concerns about this new camera.
He said to me that Canon is listening and very eager to hear feedback from current CPS professionals. This is our chance to have the camera our way before release. So get those emails going.
If you are CPS, get in touch with Frankie (UK CPS rep) and share your concerns about this new camera.
He said to me that Canon is listening and very eager to hear feedback from current CPS professionals. This is our chance to have the camera our way before release. So get those emails going.
Gregory Hicks
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Is there an official release date for this guys???