Canon 1DmkIV - not impressed

Ziploc said:
Just noticed your bios is 1.0.6 and mine is 1.0.8. you could try that and i am at present downloading version 3.2 of lightroom.
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I'll certainly give that a try. The stuff on the Canon website seemed to say it was just an aperture fix for video and some language corrections. That's why I didn't bother with it before I went to Norway.
 
I used a1Ds mk3 , a 1D4 and a 7D recently on safari in Tanzania with various lens combinations, generally the 70-200 mk2 on the 1Ds, the 300 2.8 on the mk4 and the 400DO on the 7d. Allowing for the occasional operator error (me!!) I was really not aware of sharpness issues with any of the bodies (all the lenses had been calibrated by Canon) and if Andy you are experiencing problems in Raw after sharpening (jpegs are sharpened depending on the camera settings obviously and are a separate issue) then I'd be sending the body back to Elstree ASAP for check and calibration. Certainly the new 70-200 mk2 is IMHO a belter and sharp as a tack, in fact I'd send that back at the same time then at least you'll know both are set up correctly.

My main gripe on the mk 4 (and what's putting me off buying one) is the fact that you can only get spot af on the super telephotos whereas its available on all lenses with the 7D, and the ability to alter the af settings (eg point/spot/group etc) is easier on the 7d with the extra button. 1D4 noise (or lack of it ) is streets ahead of the 7D as well over 400iso.

George
 
Just a suggestion from an amateur, but could it be that the AF is slightly front or back?

Perhaps you need to adjust it?
 
My MK4 was great out of the box. Took it to Canon to get it matched to my 400 2.8 (about the only lens that will go on it) and not sure its as good. However, i have only used it once since and the game i shot was in HARSH sunlight so probably didnt help (very possibly user error aswell!!!). I will give it another run out tonight and test it.
 
jamesward93 said:
not sure its as good. However, i have only used it once since and the game i shot was in HARSH sunlight so probably didnt help (very possibly user error aswell!!!). I will give it another run out tonight and test it.
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sent you a link to one of mine wiht same gear,.. straight out the box at f2.8
 
Andy, I wouldn't bother worrying about it, you are obviously not sure, don't waste time as I said earlier, send it back to Canon forthwith, they will even send a UPS label and you'll get it back checked in under a week.
If you need ant addresses etc send me a pm.
George

ps send the lens as well.
 
George said:
Andy, I wouldn't bother worrying about it, you are obviously not sure, don't waste time as I said earlier, send it back to Canon forthwith, they will even send a UPS label and you'll get it back checked in under a week.
If you need ant addresses etc send me a pm.
George

ps send the lens as well.
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I think I'll take your advice and send it in. pm sent. :)
 
I rang Canon just now and they said send it in. They won't pay for the postage though. The guy said it was only for special casese that they would pay! Damn that's £25 down the pan before I've even got anywhere. :bang:
 
EMA747 said:
I rang Canon just now and they said send it in. They won't pay for the postage though. The guy said it was only for special casese that they would pay! Damn that's £25 down the pan before I've even got anywhere. :bang:
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Well I think you merit a special case...top pro body and dissatisfied?..I'd ask for the supervisor and tell him you are hopping mad and p****d off.
G
 
George said:
Well I think you merit a special case...top pro body and dissatisfied?..I'd ask for the supervisor and tell him you are hopping mad and p****d off.
G
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Tell me about it! :bat: I'll maybe give them a ring back later today or Monday morning and see what they can do about it.

I was expecting something costing £3500 to work perfectly straight out of the box. :eek:
 
EMA747 said:
Tell me about it! :bat: I'll maybe give them a ring back later today or Monday morning and see what they can do about it.

I was expecting something costing £3500 to work perfectly straight out of the box. :eek:
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I'd do it NOW!!!!!
 
Result. Phoned back and spoke to a different person and she said she will email a UPS label.
 
EMA747 said:
Result. Phoned back and spoke to a different person and she said she will email a UPS label.
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Excellent. My bill for consultancy services will follow.......:lol::lol:
 
Had a look at your plant pot pics and to me there all slightly soft. I used DPP to view them but to my eyes the best was the 1Dmk4 pic.
 
Ziploc said:
Had a look at your plant pot pics and to me there all slightly soft. I used DPP to view them but to my eyes the best was the 1Dmk4 pic.
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I might have given the impression that I thought the 7D and 1DmkIV pics are not miles apart but that's not what I mean. I was expecting them to be quite a bit different. As it is I find the 7D ones sharper but all in all they are both very similar.
If they really are just very similar and there is nothing wrong with the mkIV I really can't see me keeping it. I mean the extra £2500 over the 7D is just now way worth it if this really is the case. :eek:

Btw I had a quick go with DPP but it didn't throw up any different results from using LR3.
 
ok found the lightroom update to 3.2 seems to handle the files better. Looking at your exif the only thing that your doing different to me is the focus mode. I use ai servo mode while your using one shot. When I used oneshot mode I found the shot to be slightly soft unless the camera was on a tripod and the subject was not moving, and the shutter speed was over 1/1200. while using the camera hand held.
 
EMA747 said:
I might have given the impression that I thought the 7D and 1DmkIV pics are not miles apart but that's not what I mean. I was expecting them to be quite a bit different. As it is I find the 7D ones sharper but all in all they are both very similar.
If they really are just very similar and there is nothing wrong with the mkIV I really can't see me keeping it. I mean the extra £2500 over the 7D is just now way worth it if this really is the case. :eek:

Btw I had a quick go with DPP but it didn't throw up any different results from using LR3.
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Well I have both 1d4 and 7d and the files from the 1dmk4 are better than the 7d.
 
malla1962 said:
Well I have both 1d4 and 7d and the files from the 1dmk4 are better than the 7d.
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By how much are they better? Enough that it is pretty obvious when viewed at 100% in LR?
 
This is mostly true for uncropped photos but when you have to crop heavily then I noticed a big difference between the 7D and 1DIV. The larger photo cells really help.
 
Joe T said:
I thought sharpness mostly came from the lens - I wouldnt necessarily expect a different camera to be sharper.
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The camera's AA filter can make a difference. Also, pixel density can make a difference, the higher the pixel density the better your ability to keep the camera still needs to be. When the D2x first came out, a lot of owners complained it wasn't very sharp, but that was a lot of owners were coming from the 4mp D2h - and it was criminal how much you could get away with on that camera and still get sharp images :D

But yes, you're right, the lens makes a big (well, the biggest!) difference too :)
 
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there is a confusion between sharpness, and resolving power. a lens will have a resolving power, and so will a sensor, the two will have a combined resolving power.

in front of the sensor are filters to prevent Moire. On a canon, these seem to be quite thick, and this can lead to some softness
from the sensor a RAW image is formed. if you choose to process it into a JPEG in camera, then some digital sharpening is applied. If you choose to process the RAW file yourself, you can sharpen it as little or as much as you want

A higher pixel count wont make a poor lens sharper

Different sensors have different filters and pixel configurations - some can resolve the image that lands on them better than others

remember the process

Lighting - subject - lens - AA filter - sensor - amplification - RAW file generation - conversion into JPEG (in camera) or Conversion into whatever (RAW processor on your computer)

An issu at most points in the chain can cause an image to be soft, lack resolution, contrast or appear unsharp to too sharp
 
The main issue on my mkIV is that when I apply a fair amount of sharpening in LR to the RAW files it doesn't really improve them. As I keep cranking the sharpen slider up they stay pretty much the same (ie soft) until a point when they just go all "mushy" and "painted" looking.

On the 7D files doing the same workflow they do look a lot better, more crisp, once sharpening is added.

I tried processing a RAW file off a mkIV that I downloaded of a sports pro's website (it was a review with free to download RAW examples). When I added even just a small amount of sharpening it brought out all the fine details and it looked nice. This just isn't what I'm getting on mine and why I think something is just not right with the camera.
 
As RK says, it's all elements of the whole imaging chain that create the final picture. In my view, the two most significant aspects are the lens and the physical size of the sensor, ie more photons, more image forming light to play with.

On the lens front, it's not just about resolotion and pixels, far from it. There are two sides to 'sharpness' - resolution (the fineness of detail) and contrast (how clearly those details are shown). That is the basis of lens MTF and as resolution goes up, so contrast goes down. That's just physics.

And contrast is arguably the more important component when it comes to looking at a photograph. If you compare two images, one with high contrst/low res and the other with high res/low contrast, it is the high contrast image that looks sharper. This is what is happening when sharpening is applied and it is only contrast that is increased by this process - you cannot sharpen detail which isn't there.

In terms of sensor size, bigger always wins, pretty much regardless of pixel count (within reason). For example, a Nikon D300 and a Canon 7D look pretty similar most of the time, despite the Canon having 50% more pixels. D300 vs D700, same number of pixels but the D700 wins hands down because the full frame sensor is more than twice the area. 7D vs 5D2, again a roughly similar pixel count but the 5D2 walks it.

The 1D4 vs 7D should follow the same line. The 1D4 should be better, it really should. Not massively perhaps, but discernably and always clearly better, and you shouldn't have to pixel peep to see it.
 
HoppyUK said:
In terms of sensor size, bigger always wins, pretty much regardless of pixel count (within reason). For example, a Nikon D300 and a Canon 7D look pretty similar most of the time, despite the Canon having 50% more pixels. D300 vs D700, same number of pixels but the D700 wins hands down because the full frame sensor is more than twice the area. 7D vs 5D2, again a roughly similar pixel count but the 5D2 walks it.
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exactly. further to that the smaller the sensor, the smaller the photosites, meaning the more photosites per mm2. this means on a 1:1 pixel view, any issues with the resolving power will show more with the smaller sensor (if the pixel counts are similar between the full frame and crop)
 
So it all arrived at Canon Elstree yesterday morning. What happens next? I have been keeping an eye on the progress at the link they sent me https://www1.canon.de/canon/repsrv.nsf/en It just says processing. Will they email me once something happens?
 
EMA747 said:
So it all arrived at Canon Elstree yesterday morning. What happens next? I have been keeping an eye on the progress at the link they sent me https://www1.canon.de/canon/repsrv.nsf/en It just says processing. Will they email me once something happens?
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They will contact you by email and/or text when it is shipped, and they wil send you a UPS tracking no.

You can also call them on the no I gave you to check on progress. suspect you'll have it by Fri or Mon latest, let us know.

George
 
Thanks George. I assume they will give me a rundown of what they find out and/or if they are doing any repair?
 
EMA747 said:
Thanks George. I assume they will give me a rundown of what they find out and/or if they are doing any repair?
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Well it depends, they may just say "adjusment" or something like that.

I'd suggest you call them and ask for the technician to call you with a report...they are generally quite helpful.

George
 
Just got a message from Canon.

All it says about the repair is
Your unit will be delivered shortly or is ready for collection by arrangement.
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So not sure what they have done. I guess maybe there will be some paperwork when I get it back.

Does that mean they will just post it back or do I have to arrange it with them? They didn't mention having to arrange return post.

All a little bit confusing I must say.
 
When I sent my camera to Elstree, they just sent it back, I didn't have to arrange anything. They send a tecnical note with it, but it's not hugely informative.

For example, when my 7D went back it got replaced due to a 'software issue' - Never found out what it was, no one could tell me more than that.
 
EMA747 said:
Just got a message from Canon.

All it says about the repair is

So not sure what they have done. I guess maybe there will be some paperwork when I get it back.

Does that mean they will just post it back or do I have to arrange it with them? They didn't mention having to arrange return post.

All a little bit confusing I must say.
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Andy, have you called them? Say you want to speak to someone about the repair and what was done, worth a try.
It will probably arrive tomorrow, they should tell you when it was/wil be sent when you phone!!
 
George, I will give them a call tomorrow if the paperwork doesn't reveal anything. I'm off out now otherwise I would do it now.
 
Just got my Mk4 back from Canon after getting error 20... paperwork says replaced mirror box. Sent off Monday and got it back today
 
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