Can you recommend a canon?

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I have been reading the excellent basics guides for beginners, but would appreciate any recommendations you have? I was thinking of jumping straight into the deep end with a mark 1 5D as they are quite cheap on eBay and my inspiration for photography, Timothy Allen recommends them and some lenses but apparently this is way out of my league. I am new and enthusiastic to learn about manual shooting, I think I want a lens for landscape shots and a fixed 50mm 1.8 or something. I am incredibly naive though which is why I am asking your advice before buying. I will go to a camera shop this weekend to have a feel.
 
I don't think anyone could tell you you would be wrong to buy any camera but the 5d is a lot of camera and I'd have thought something less would be a better starting point. Depending on money maybe a 650d as a very very good starting point. Landscape lens, a 10-22.
The 5d if full frame, other than that I don't know much about them as I'm still learning (and I've loads to learn!!).

Just my thoughts.
 
I'd be buying second hand by the way. Thanks for your thoughts. Have there been any books or resources that you would recommend? As I said, the links in the basics section have been really accessible and informative but I should probably buy a book too.
 
Just be aware that any lens with an EF-S designation (i.e. the 10-22 for example) won't fit on a full-frame body (6D/5D/1Ds). EF lenses only unfortunately, which can turn out to be expensive once you get a liking for L level glass.....
 
I own a 5D and it is a good camera. Keep in mind it doe not have an inbuilt flash.
A standard (full frame) zoom may meet a lot of your shooting needs (28-75 or a 28-135?) including landscapes (at the budget end of the scale). In the old days 50mm was the standard lens.

Re books:
What are you current skill levels?
Do you understand the exposure triangle?
 
I am new to DSLRs. I have only been reading the technical stuff at the moment, including the exposure triangle which all makes good sense but I haven't been able to put it into practice as I don't actually have one yet!

I don't know the difference between full frame cameras and others but I was kind of thinking that if I start with one now, at least I can learn on it and won't have to buy a new set of lenses like I might if I wanted to upgrade.
 
steve burnett said:
I don't think anyone could tell you you would be wrong to buy any camera but the 5d is a lot of camera and I'd have thought something less would be a better starting point. Depending on money maybe a 650d as a very very good starting point. Landscape lens, a 10-22.
The 5d if full frame, other than that I don't know much about them as I'm still learning (and I've loads to learn!!).

Just my thoughts.
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That's a load of hog wash - there is no difference to using a 5D to a 600d etc except for the lack of pop up flash
 
What about the full frame thing POAH? That's a difference isn't it? At least in terms of the lenses you can use?
 
Doodlydoo said:
What about the full frame thing POAH? That's a difference isn't it? At least in terms of the lenses you can use?
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It is but I think Poah was referring to how you use the camera, whilst a 5D doesn't hold your hand with scene modes like the more consumer oriented cameras like the xxxd range I don't see any reason why you shouldn't learn on one.
 
Thanks mark. I really like the photos on your blog by the way. I would like to get a 5D, one went for just over £200 on ebay yesterday though most are going for around £400.
 
Just seen that £200 one...it was ended early by seller was it not?
 
I thought I must have got the time wrong as it did end an hour or two earlier than I expected so maybe they did end it early I don't know. I wasn't watching to buy though, just to see how much things were going for.
 
Well here's my thought, I started out in 2010 with a new 500d, learned how to use it etc bought some nice lenses and now looking to move to a 5dc as you are thinking. Good move in my opinion, if you go xxxd you will probably end up buying efs glass that you would have to sell on when you feel like going full frame, do why not go full framed to begin with and build up you glass that way.

5Dc and a 24-105 and a 50 1.8 is a good place to start.
 
POAH said:
That's a load of hog wash - there is no difference to using a 5D to a 600d etc except for the lack of pop up flash
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Wait for it..................................................................

It was just my thoughts :thumbs: as I wrote at the bottom.


We could all go out and buy 1D's but do we really need them???
We can all use them even if it's in Auto mode.

I maybe should have been a bit clearer.
My thinking would be, save the money spent on a 2nd hand 5d and put it towards a 550, 600, 650 whatever and buy some lenses at the same time.

Just my thinking on the subject.
 
I suppose it all comes down to budget and what your plan is in the long run as well. If you went for a crop sensor would you be looking at going full frame in the future?
 
Well that is what I am wondering mata.morrison. I'm not sure at the moment.

Thanks for your advice though everyone, it has been really helpful.
 
When I started, I wasn't sure either, so went with the cheapest DSLR I can find. Big mistake there, it is very feature limited and ergonomics is non existing.

Then I looked around and thought to myself: what would be a good camera that will last me for a while? 5D was the answer, I spent extra to get mark 2 for video work.

If you are serious about it, and know you will stick with it for next 2 years at very least. Then 5D is still fantastic and great choice.



Regarding full frame or crop, have a look into the differences. full frame is basically 35mm film in digital age, whereas crop is a crop of that in the middle. End of the day, both produce great images. If you have touched photography in the film days, I think you could benefit from getting a full frame because everything is transferable to your new camera.

I started with 90's film camera, so full frame just makes sense in my head. I can't get my head around crop.
 
I'm afraid that I agree with the view that a 5D is no different to a 650D. They all have aperture, shutter, manual and auto modes and I really can't see any good reason to be scared of a 5D.

The only reason that I can think goes against any older camera is that newer cameras aimed more at the entry level tend to have punchier straight out of the camera JPEG's whilst some of the earlier models perhaps produce flatter looking straight out of the camera JPEG's as it's assumed that the used will process their own shots. Really though, IMVHO, anyone looking at a camera that isn't an entry model will probably want to process their own shots to get the best of of them and if that's the case slightly flat straight out of the camera JPEG's are probably going to be a non issue.

OP. If you want to shoot RAW and process your images I think you'll be quite happy with a 5D. You don't have to be a Photoshop wiz kid. I only spend a few seconds processing most of mine with my preferred settings and I'm happy with the results.
 
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I don't see why I wouldn't want a full frame to be honest.
Edited to add - Yes I was planning on shooting RAW and processing myself.
 
wuyanxu said:
When I started, I wasn't sure either, so went with the cheapest DSLR I can find. Big mistake there, it is very feature limited and ergonomics is non existing.

Then I looked around and thought to myself: what would be a good camera that will last me for a while? 5D was the answer, I spent extra to get mark 2 for video work.

If you are serious about it, and know you will stick with it for next 2 years at very least. Then 5D is still fantastic and great choice.

Regarding full frame or crop, have a look into the differences. full frame is basically 35mm film in digital age, whereas crop is a crop of that in the middle. End of the day, both produce great images. If you have touched photography in the film days, I think you could benefit from getting a full frame because everything is transferable to your new camera.

I started with 90's film camera, so full frame just makes sense in my head. I can't get my head around crop.
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You can transfer all 35mm film knowledge to a crop sensor camera, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, it's all relative.
 
Hell you are even tempting me if there going for £200!!!!
 
"You can transfer all 35mm film knowledge to a crop sensor camera, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, it's all relative."

As long as you don't do what I did when I got my first (APS-C) DSLR, stick a lens starting at 28mm on it and wonder why is wasn't wide angle :thinking: :bonk: :D
 
rjbell Haha! I really think that was just the one which may have been pulled early!
 
woof woof said:
"You can transfer all 35mm film knowledge to a crop sensor camera, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever, it's all relative."

As long as you don't do what I did when I got my first (APS-C) DSLR, stick a lens starting at 28mm on it and wonder why is wasn't wide angle :thinking: :bonk: :D
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Lol indeed, as long as you understand the crop factor when you go into it!
 
steve burnett said:
Wait for it..................................................................

It was just my thoughts :thumbs: as I wrote at the bottom.


We could all go out and buy 1D's but do we really need them???
We can all use them even if it's in Auto mode.

I maybe should have been a bit clearer.
My thinking would be, save the money spent on a 2nd hand 5d and put it towards a 550, 600, 650 whatever and buy some lenses at the same time.

Just my thinking on the subject.
Click to expand...

There is NO need to start at the very bottom. As OP mentioned they are cheap enough now used, and let me guess what I would much rather have for that price. There is not much point buying cheap Ef-s lenses just to have to change them shortly with a definite loss of money.
5D were once the camera to use to publish in a magazine. They still are.
 
I (we) started off last Jan with a 600D. The Mrs has kept that and I have just got a 7D. Having the 600D for a year made using the 7D somewhat easier, but if you want, I don't really see why you need to start off with a basic model if you have the patience to learn on a more pro type model. Looking back I wish we had started off with a 7D and might have been looking at a 5D MKii maybe now.
 
Doodlydoo said:
What about the full frame thing POAH? That's a difference isn't it? At least in terms of the lenses you can use?
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no you can use the same EF lenses on a full frame canon or crop. sure the FOV is different but all that means is that you use a different lens for a particular shot. so instead of have a 17-55 you have a 24-70 or a 10-22 rather than a 17-40.
 
daugirdas said:
There is NO need to start at the very bottom. As OP mentioned they are cheap enough now used, and let me guess what I would much rather have for that price. There is not much point buying cheap Ef-s lenses just to have to change them shortly with a definite loss of money.
5D were once the camera to use to publish in a magazine. They still are.
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Cheap EFS lenses? Jeez, what is it with your kit snobbery??

The EFS 10-22, 15-85 and 17-55 are three stunning lenses, some if Canons finest. There's no reason someone couldn't live through their entire photography "life" with a crop and the lenses designed for them.

Not everyone wants to print A1.
 
odd jim said:
Cheap EFS lenses? Jeez, what is it with your kit snobbery??

The EFS 10-22, 15-85 and 17-55 are three stunning lenses, some if Canons finest. There's no reason someone couldn't live through their entire photography "life" with a crop and the lenses designed for them.

Not everyone wants to print A1.
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Sorry Jim, I don't agree it is kit snobbery, the whole point of EF-S lenses was they were cheaper to produce by having a smaller image circle, you're not paying for glass you don't need on a crop sensor.

As you say you can go through life with crop sensor cameras, that is fine, it is just that if you're planning an upgrade to FF then your EF-S lenses won't fit and you'll have to change them which is what I am sure Daugirdas was getting at, rather than having a sleight at crop sensor cameras.
 
markmullen said:
Sorry Jim, I don't agree it is kit snobbery, the whole point of EF-S lenses was they were cheaper to produce by having a smaller image circle, you're not paying for glass you don't need on a crop sensor.

As you say you can go through life with crop sensor cameras, that is fine, it is just that if you're planning an upgrade to FF then your EF-S lenses won't fit and you'll have to change them which is what I am sure Daugirdas was getting at, rather than having a sleight at crop sensor cameras.
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The guys just starting for gods sake.

But either way, quality EFS lenses arnt cheap, I wish they were.

I'm glad I didn't start with my 5d, I'd have probably ditched digital long before I gave it a chance if I had!
 
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odd jim said:
The guys just starting for gods sake.

But either way, quality EFS lenses arnt cheap, I wish they were.

I'm glad I didn't start with my 5d, I'd have probably ditched digital long before I gave it a chance if I had!
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In photography very little is cheap. EF-S lenses are cheaper.

Other than the lack of scene modes and the lack of the (very limited) onboard flash why do you think a 5D is no good for a beginner? PASM modes are just the same, the controls work in the same way, I don't see the issue myself.
 
markmullen said:
In photography very little is cheap. EF-S lenses are cheaper.

Other than the lack of scene modes and the lack of the (very limited) onboard flash why do you think a 5D is no good for a beginner? PASM modes are just the same, the controls work in the same way, I don't see the issue myself.
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Not saying its not good for a beginner, but to discount so many other good bodies simply because they don't have a full frame sensor is just stupid and smacks of snobbery.

Maybe it's just me?
 
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markmullen said:
I think you're reading more into it than there is, the chap asked if he should buy a 5D, we said yes
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Well, the questions not been fully explored but certain members of the "FF only or it's crap" brigade jump straight to the 5d.

What if the OP wants to shoot wildlife or sport, where the crop factor would get him far more bang for bucks out of whatever telephoto goes on the front?

I wouldn't recommend a 5dc to anyone that wants to shoot anything moving at a decent speed.

TBH I find my 5d far more limiting than my 50d, and guess which one I'm px'ing for my 6d next month?
 
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I'm not sure it smacks snobbery. If i was starting now before buying a shed load of lenses i would buy a used 5d or something too. Hell as i said earlier i'm thinking of selling all my gear now for one if i can get one for £300. FF for dslr's is the future aps-c cameras will be the reserve of the CSC's in 5-10yrs. The FF war has taken over the iso war, both the d600 and 6d will be under a £1000 by the summer. Sell your dx and ef-s lenses now while you can get some money for them!;)
 
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Doodlydoo,

There nothing wrong with wanting an FF camera but (a) even though a second hand FF DSLR may be fairly cheap you are on the road to serious money and (b) what do you want to do with an FF camera that only an FF camera can give you?

However, more importantly, for a camera and say a kit lens, what is your budget?

Dave
 
odd jim said:
Cheap EFS lenses? Jeez, what is it with your kit snobbery??

The EFS 10-22, 15-85 and 17-55 are three stunning lenses, some if Canons finest. There's no reason someone couldn't live through their entire photography "life" with a crop and the lenses designed for them.

Not everyone wants to print A1.
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yeah stunning purple fringing and distortion :lol:
 
I'm not so sure that buying a 5D means you're necessarily on the road to spending serious money. Not if you don't want to anyway.

There are some expensive full frame lenses but there are also some more reasonably priced ones and some cheap ones from the 35mm film days. The cheap old film SLR lenses may not be the best but used to their best and when viewing a whole image normally I bet most give perfectly acceptable results.

I only have one older Canon lens from those days and it does indeed IMVHO give good results. I bought it for £150. Hardly a bank breaker :D
 
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35mm f2 and 85mm f1.8. sorted. no more than £500 for both new.

in fact I often only carry these 2 lenses with my 5D in my smaller bag.
 
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