Can you help with this question "CHECKS NOW DONE"

Steve Smith said:
One other possibility is that the camera is working correctly but you are wasting too much film getting it onto the takeup reel.


Steve.
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Hi Steve not as far as I know, I only fire one shot to make sure the film is gripped, once the back is closed I then advance the film counter to "0"......
 
StephenM said:
I'm still puzzled. If the film reached the (true) end, then the last frames would be exposed if the shutter were working. My understanding is that this is the case.

If it's a case of not taking up the slack, there could be multiple exposures on the fogged beginning where they wouldn't show, but there should still be a full set of exposures after the winding started properly.

I can't think of any scenario other than a faulty shutter that would give blank film at the beginning of the roll and normal exposures at the end. And that is a very odd circumstance.

Post above made while I was typing.

But my mystification still continues - blank film shouldn't result from a delayed start to wind on. Nor should less than the full set of exposures.
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I don't know Stephen I tried checking to see if the canon would stop at 24 or 36 but how would it know how many exposures there are on any given roll unless there is something mechanical on the inside at the very least it should go to 38 exposures, or at least that is what the manual states.
 
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Ok, a hypothesis

1) The AE-1 counts back when you rewind, according to the manual. This probably means that the film counter is attached to the rewind spool, not the advance crank.
2) If the film in the canister is loose, the advance crank will advance film, but the canister won't rotate because there's no tension
3) This means that you won't get to frame 0 until you've taken up all the tension
4) Carol took her dummy shots with the lens cap on

Which leads to: an indeterminate number of blank shots at the beginning of the roll, and running out of film way before 24/36 exposures, which is why the manual says to ensure that you rewind until there's tension.

I think this fits all the facts.
 
abdoujaparov said:
1) The AE-1 counts back when you rewind, according to the manual. This probably means that the film counter is attached to the rewind spool, not the advance crank.
2) If the film in the canister is loose, the advance crank will advance film, but the canister won't rotate because there's no tension
3) This means that you won't get to frame 0 until you've taken up all the tension
4) Carol took her dummy shots with the lens cap on

Which leads to: an indeterminate number of blank shots at the beginning of the roll, and running out of film way before 24/36 exposures, which is why the manual says to ensure that you rewind until there's tension.
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I like this - Carol, do you recall how many shots you had to take until you saw 0 on the frame counter? If it's more than a couple, I think Keith's nailed it. :)
 
abdoujaparov said:
Ok, a hypothesis

1) The AE-1 counts back when you rewind, according to the manual. This probably means that the film counter is attached to the rewind spool, not the advance crank.
2) If the film in the canister is loose, the advance crank will advance film, but the canister won't rotate because there's no tension
3) This means that you won't get to frame 0 until you've taken up all the tension
4) Carol took her dummy shots with the lens cap on

Which leads to: an indeterminate number of blank shots at the beginning of the roll, and running out of film way before 24/36 exposures, which is why the manual says to ensure that you rewind until there's tension.

I think this fits all the facts.
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Strappy said:
I like this - Carol, do you recall how many shots you had to take until you saw 0 on the frame counter? If it's more than a couple, I think Keith's nailed it. :)
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Hi Keith and Dean thanks for that, yes I probably had to fire off 3 possibly 4 before it got to "0".

But.....Can I ask if all film has a black leader (I think thats what its called) at the beginning of the film?
If this is so why are all the blank shots at the end of the film not the beginning.

And Keith it does count back.
 
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abdoujaparov said:
Ok, a hypothesis

1) The AE-1 counts back when you rewind, according to the manual. This probably means that the film counter is attached to the rewind spool, not the advance crank.
2) If the film in the canister is loose, the advance crank will advance film, but the canister won't rotate because there's no tension
3) This means that you won't get to frame 0 until you've taken up all the tension
4) Carol took her dummy shots with the lens cap on

Which leads to: an indeterminate number of blank shots at the beginning of the roll, and running out of film way before 24/36 exposures, which is why the manual says to ensure that you rewind until there's tension.

I think this fits all the facts.
Click to expand...

Sorry to spoil this theory but my AE-1 advances the counter when when there is no film loaded. The counter can't be coupled to the rewind side.
 
Crtm said:
Hi Keith and Dean thanks for that, yes I probably had to fire off 3 possibly 4 before it got to "0".

But.....Can I ask if all film has a black leader (I think thats what its called) at the beginning of the film?
If this is so why are all the blank shots at the end of the film not the beginning.
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Ah, b****r, I read the bit where you said "in effect missing about 4-6 frames at the beginning of the film" but missed the bit where you said the blanks were at the end. If they're at the end, my theory doesn't work at all.
 
I didn't think 35mm film had leader, it's just film afaik. Leader, certainly the stuff I've used in the past for cine film has been white and not light sensative at all.
 
This still sounds more like a shutter problem to me.
 
abdoujaparov said:
I think Carol ruled out the shutter in post #32. Also, the black leader she mentions is presumably the exposed beginning of the film .
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Hi Keith ah ok its not leader its the exposed film, sorry was not thinking about that.

I definitely checked the shutter looking through the lens to make sure I saw light on all settings - f stops and speeds.
 
The film leader is also light sensitive and all they do is cut the shape out of the film, if you are a parsimonious you could load the film in complete darkness and get shots before the counter says 1.
 
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Unless you've loaded bulk film (i.e. not bought a standard cassette) you should have a fogged beginning to the film (which will be all black). If all the blank frames are at the end of the film, then the only alternatives that occur to me are that the film only wound on up to a certain point (leaving it open as to whether it's a wind on problem - gears too weak to handle a lot of film on the take up spool?) or that the shutter packed in after a certain number of frames.

If the shutter is still working, then it seems (if the blanks are at the end) it's a winding problem.

You've said that you didn't get 36 frames out of a 36 film; do you get 24 from a 24 film?

Nothing seems particularly plausible to me.
 
The only logical solution remaining to me, is that you didn't shoot all 36 frames. I know you said you did, but everyone makes mistakes.

None of the other proposals seem to make any sense to me.
 
Ok I have another film loaded which I will shoot this weekend so I think we will wait and see what happens with it, I will watch out for any problems.

Thanks everyone.
 
Hi all I have just developed the last roll of film to come out the camera and I have a full 36 exposures in fact I have 36 and a half! (y)
 
Good news! What did you do differently this time, if anything?
 
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