Can they do this? is it legally enforceable?

Steep said:
Those are pretty standard terms in any contract I think, certainly mine has similar terms in it. Practically speaking it wouldn't be cost effective for them to chase you for going to a similar job elsewhere and in my experience it doesn't happen. Starting your own business in the same line might be more problematic if you went about stealing their customers using your inside knowledge but the thing to consider here is, are you ready to do something like that now? if so, don't sign just go do it, if not then what is the harm in signing?
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Cheers Steep :thumbs:
As I said previously I have had my own "pest control" consultancy & wildlife management company few years I hardly ever "use"
it, but its there and I can prove it.
I have mentioned in passing to a few that I might be leaving and a proportion
have said "give us a ring if you start up on your own"
"better the devil you know and all that :D" the best bit is I only need less than half of my "regulars"
to make a nice living

markta said:
I'm heading the same way for sure.

My last employer tried to clone me to someone they wanted me to be. I wasn't having any of it, especially as it was delving into my private life. What's it called? Work/life balance IIRC...

I'm currently working on going the same way and being my own boss, but am taking my time planning, researching and making sure all bases covered etc. :):woot:
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good luck :thumbs:
oakwright said:
Chris

Firstly you should however be aware that even if you do not sign the new contract, by continuing to work for the company you will, in law, be deemed to have accepted the terms of the contract.

Having said that points 2 & 3 are fairly standard in contracts of employment. Whilst iI am not a lawyer, I am a director of a company that employs 60 people and deal with employment law on a regular basis. We have similar caluses in our own contract although I know it is unenforcable in law. Point one is ludicrous.
I hope that puts your mind at rest.
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Thanks for your input its greatly appriciated :thumbs:
At the moment though I am still technically employed by the old company
they pay my wages,
I am still driving their car, and the "work" comes through them.
The switch over date keeps getting put back because ( as I understand it at least)
the lawyers are still "fighting" over the finer points
Hopefully they will continue to do so until the new year to give me time to be absolutely sure what I will do. Thanks again :thumbs:
 
Cobra said:
Cheers Steep :thumbs:
As I said previously I have had my own "pest control" consultancy & wildlife management company few years I hardly ever "use"
it, but its there and I can prove it.
I have mentioned in passing to a few that I might be leaving and a proportion
have said "give us a ring if you start up on your own"
"better the devil you know and all that :D" the best bit is I only need less than half of my "regulars"
to make a nice living


good luck :thumbs:

Thanks for your input its greatly appriciated :thumbs:
At the moment though I am still technically employed by the old company
they pay my wages,
I am still driving their car, and the "work" comes through them.
The switch over date keeps getting put back because ( as I understand it at least)
the lawyers are still "fighting" over the finer points
Hopefully they will continue to do so until the new year to give me time to be absolutely sure what I will do. Thanks again :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Thanks mate :)

I guess it comes with working for a large national company, something which I'll never do again.

Sorry can't offer any reliable advice on your plight - I've been through a similar situation myself but each case is different.

Good luck with getting it sorted - I'll certainly keep an eye on this one :)
 
markta said:
Thanks mate :)

I guess it comes with working for a large national company, something which I'll never do again.

Sorry can't offer any reliable advice on your plight - I've been through a similar situation myself but each case is different.

Good luck with getting it sorted - I'll certainly keep an eye on this one :)
Click to expand...

I learned today that D-Day (or is that rip off day?) is closer than I thought
( hoped) :(
I will see what "they" have to say when I go for my "appraisal"

one thing I forgot to mention obviously with the pay & holiday cut will come
"de-motion" as well the guy already has a manager so that will probabley leave me as a plain old "pestie"
 
That sounds pretty crap Chris:(, I will keep my fingers crossed for you

The Tupe thing is cerainly worth a look at, nearly came unstuck on that when we moved warehouses but not too sure of the implications of it and when it is enforceable:shrug:
 
Chris,

A couple of years ago I was involved in a UK start up, and the conditions including things like not joining a competitor, no associating with existing staff, no contact with existing customers etc. So I spoke to a friend who majors in corporate law who said that unless they were prepared to pay me for the 6 months this was enforcible they'd never get away with it in court. Basically they are stopping you from getting another job, so unless they put you on long term "gardening leave", they have no chance.

I was advised to sign it, and if necessary, fight it in court, as there was very little chance of me losing.

Steve
 
birdy961 said:
That sounds pretty crap Chris:(, I will keep my fingers crossed for you

The Tupe thing is cerainly worth a look at, nearly came unstuck on that when we moved warehouses but not too sure of the implications of it and when it is enforceable:shrug:
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Cheers robin :thumbs: It is a pretty crap situation though :(
I am going to have a good read through this week-end :thumbs:

Jelster said:
Chris,

A couple of years ago I was involved in a UK start up, and the conditions including things like not joining a competitor, no associating with existing staff, no contact with existing customers etc. So I spoke to a friend who majors in corporate law who said that unless they were prepared to pay me for the 6 months this was enforcible they'd never get away with it in court. Basically they are stopping you from getting another job, so unless they put you on long term "gardening leave", they have no chance.

I was advised to sign it, and if necessary, fight it in court, as there was very little chance of me losing.
Steve
Click to expand...
Interesting!
Thanks Steve much appriciated :thumbs:( now where did I put my spade ?:D)
 
Forbiddenbiker said:
Chris, ... you may want to think about having this thread removed at some point when you done ... anyone could read it etc


Just a thought.
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Good point Adam
Though I am not sure there is anything there that I would be "ashamed of " even if my potetial "new boss" were to read it, but its something to think about none the less :thumbs:
 
It might be worth PM'ing Johnny Reb, I've not seen him post in a while but I'm sure he's a HR bod of some sort is probably more up to date on employment law than most.
 
Kev M said:
It might be worth PM'ing Johnny Reb, I've not seen him post in a while but I'm sure he's a HR bod of some sort .
Click to expand...

Thanks Kev I didn't know that :thumbs:

Yeah I haven't "seen" him or "spoken" to him in ages either I wonder where he is ?
 
Unfortunately no union I was working for a "small" " old fashioned" firm and wage agreements etc were made on the nod of the head and a hand shake
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ahh the type that make it up as they go along.....

TUPE is your friend ( i have been TUPE'd) it is a good starting point but not un-changeable... (they can change t+c at a later date)


i would suggest that you start written or email dialogue with them(with regard to TUPE) and offer a drawing of a 7 legged spider to stall them - although you may want to start with a 3 legged version and work up to buy some time......:lol:
 
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sportysnaps said:
ahh the type that make it up as they go along.....
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Strange but I have ( had) no issues with that /\ company thats the "out going" one.

Its the "incoming one" thats being a pain in the ass :(

sportysnaps said:
TUPE is your friend ( i have been TUPE'd) it is a good starting point but not un-changeable... (they can change t+c at a later date)
Click to expand...

I'll give it a "good going" over in the next day or two :thumbs:

sportysnaps said:
i would suggest that you start written or email dialogue with them(with regard to TUPE) and offer a drawing of a 7 legged spider to stall them - although you may want to start with a 3 legged version and work up to buy some time......:lol:
Click to expand...


:lol: I remember the 7 legged spider thread and I agree a 3 legged one would be a better place to start :D
 
sportysnaps said:
thats nice to hear - there are some good companies to work for; when you find them - stick with them(as you have)

good luck...
Click to expand...
Thanks :thumbs:
 
Cobra said:

part of the new contract ( that I haven't signed yet ) states that
should I leave
1) I must not go withing 10 miles of the base
as the base is 50 odd miles away from my home and present work area
that is highly unlikely anyway ;)
2) I must not start up my own business in the same line of work
3) I must not work for another company for a minimum of 12 months engaged in the same line of business
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1) As said - I would think they had to get a court order or injunction for this
2) and 3) - My current contract has the same statement in it and I had it checked and was told that after leaving the company you are no longer bound by the contract and therefore this will not stand up in a court. If however they can prove that you accepted the new job before handing in your notice then they have a case.
In my case, as I am only trained in one area and I am in a very niche market, a court would also not impose hardship on me and my family by not allowing me to work in the same industry/area for another company
 
OutLore said:
1) As said - I would think they had to get a court order or injunction for this
2) and 3) - 1)My current contract has the same statement in it and I had it checked and was told that after leaving the company you are no longer bound by the contract and therefore this will not stand up in a court.

2)If however they can prove that you accepted the new job before handing in your notice then they have a case.
In my case, as I am only trained in one area and I am in a very niche market, a court would also not impose hardship on me and my family by not allowing me to work in the same industry/area for another company
Click to expand...

1) interesting thanks :thumbs:
2) That seems a bit strange though
as "most people" wouldn't had in their notice
until they "had somewhere else to go"
 
but they have to prove it. and i think things like that are protected under some act or other. so they would have to take you to court to find out, a bit of a risk in truth
 
Cobra said:
1) interesting thanks :thumbs:
2) That seems a bit strange though
as "most people" wouldn't had in their notice
until they "had somewhere else to go"
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Agreed - so if you wanted to be 100% sure then you would need to risk it - hand your notice in at your current place, then accept the new job.

I would get the contract checked first - but you could possibly issue a counter contract stating that while you are having their contract checked, you agree to work on your original contract until both parties are happy.
 
I would say that those terms are unenforceable.

The big risk would be that they come after you alleging theft of their customer base. Be sure that you do not have copies of their customer data or any other internal information which is valuable. They could take action on that. You may wish to indulge in some appropriate marketing. A mailshot which you can demononstrate went to lots of people ? Attendance at some events?

If setting up on your own they may well come after you. You would be taking revenue from them and they would want to discourage anyone else from doing the same.

You need a good solicitor to go over your contract - IF you want to stay then someone with TUPE knowledge, if you want to go then with a good understanding of contracts.
 
fletch5 said:
but they have to prove it. and i think things like that are protected under some act or other. so they would have to take you to court to find out, a bit of a risk in truth
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Thanks for your input Fletch :thumbs:

OutLore said:
I would get the contract checked first - but you could possibly issue a counter contract stating that while you are having their contract checked, you agree to work on your original contract until both parties are happy.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a plan to me Thanks :thumbs:

who? said:
I would say that those terms are unenforceable.

The big risk would be that they come after you alleging theft of their customer base. 1) Be sure that you do not have copies of their customer data or any other internal information which is valuable. They could take action on that. 2) You may wish to indulge in some appropriate marketing. A mailshot which you can demononstrate went to lots of people ? Attendance at some events?

If setting up on your own they may well come after you. You would be taking revenue from them and they would want to discourage anyone else from doing the same.

You need a good solicitor to go over your contract - IF you want to stay then someone with TUPE knowledge, if you want to go then with a good understanding of contracts.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input :thumbs:
1) I have loads of "stuff" on my computer regarding the "old firm"
and hadn't thought of that! Cheers!
I think I will ask for a direct "order" to delete " all" xxxxx's files from my computer
(a lot is ONLY stored here)
Once so ordered they will lose quite a few "files" & "data" I can be a right asshole when I want :D
If not so ordered then thats their problem not mine ;)
2)That sounds like a plane to me thanks :thumbs:


I'm sorta hoping that they ( the new firm) will realise that after all these years of working for "xxxx"
I have and incredable amount of information also stored in my brain
and that they will be prepared to pay for that knowledge one way or other
On the other hand if they want to be assholes so can I ;)
 
Cobra said:
part of the new contract ( that I haven't signed yet ) states that
should I leave
1) I must not go withing 10 miles of the base
as the base is 50 odd miles away from my home and present work area
that is highly unlikely anyway ;)
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by "go within" and "base" here. I'm not aware of anything which can legally prevent you going anywhere that's lawful for you to go.

2) I must not start up my own business in the same line of work
Click to expand...

It's quite common with executive or manager contracts to restrict the ability of the employee to compete with the employer for a certain period of time after they leave the company. But the restriction cannot be open ended. There has to be a reasonable time limit to the restraint, otherwise it amounts to preventing you from earning a living and is unenforceable.

3) I must not work for another company for a minimum of 12 months engaged in the same line of business
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6 months restriction isn't fairly standard and in practice 12 months is certainly not unknown, depending on the seniority of the role concerned, so is probably enforceable.
 
woadrage said:
Not sure what you mean by "go within" and "base" here. I'm not aware of anything which can legally prevent you going anywhere that's lawful for you to go.
Click to expand...

The office that I will be working from is about 50 miles from my home
and its not a place that I normally go anyway, but there would be a 10 mile exclusion zone around that office, which as most people have now said its absolute [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] only an "asbo" can enforce this and that was confirmed recently by a copper ( who likes to think he is my friend :D )

woadrage said:
It's quite common with executive or manager contracts to restrict the ability of the employee to compete with the employer for a certain period of time after they leave the company. But the restriction cannot be open ended. There has to be a reasonable time limit to the restraint, otherwise it amounts to preventing you from earning a living and is unenforceable.
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None stated!

woadrage said:
6 months restriction isn't fairly standard and in practice 12 months is certainly not unknown, depending on the seniority of the role concerned, so is probably enforceable.
Click to expand...

Ah but if I take the new job my seniority is "none existant"
I go from manager / consultant to technician over night :(
I have never come accross this before
If I were a HGV driver ( I was in a previous life) and say I left one firm
to go work for another there is no way in hell the firm I had left could stop me even if it were for a competitor logistics firm
Thanks for your in put :thumbs:
 
Sorry to join in so late, and this may not be at all relevant to you. There are strict rules governing a "Transfer of an Undertaking." If this does apply to you try asking at your nearest JobCentrePlus. An unlikely place, I Know, but they do have all sorts of resources. Otherwise you could consult ACAS, or fork out for a lawyer. I must say that I like dseered's solution: Go it alone and pinch their customers before you sign anything.
Andy.
 
Cheers Andy I never thought of the "job center" as an information source :thumbs:
 
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