Can someone check this before I buy? Please :-)

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FizzyFish

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I'm Upgrading all my kit that's about 10+ years old. I want to get into portrait photography - eventually at a professional level, but location shoots, not studio, I personally hate studio shoots.
But being out of the photography world for a while - and - check out my post in the beginners section - being a total technical idiot I want some people to check over my selection before I waste thousands on the completely wrong kit!

Camera:
Canon EOS 5d Mark IV
Lens:
Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

Then I'm thinking about a wide angle lens to do woodland shots of kids? Thoughts?

Thanks :-)
 
They will work together, whether it is the best choice or not depends on your needs. The 5D MkIV is no doubt an excellent camera (I've used the 5D MkIII and that is very, very good - the Mk IV will be better). The thing to bare in mind with the 85mm f1.2 is that it is huge, heavy and slow to focus (oh and very expensive too). If I shot Canon I'd probably get the Sigma 85mm f1.4 (either the new Art or the older one) and the Canon 135mm f2 - they will work out at similar money to the 85mm f1.2. As for wide angle, a decent 35mm would be good imo, again Canon do one (not sure how good), but the Sigma Art gets rave reviews.
 
What Paul said, the 85L is a fantastic lens, but as beginner kit it'd not be my first choice, and I prefer something a bit longer for portraits too. If you're stuck on 85mm the 1.8 is fantastic for the money and easier to use, and the Sigma is better VFM.

For the same kind of money you could buy a 24-70 2.8L and a s/h 135 f2L which is more useful and offers some similar 'magic' on the telephoto too.
 
Great camera but personally I'd get a 70-200 2.8 II that will cover your 85 and 135. Yes the 85 will do 1.2 and the 135 f2 but the 70-200 will be awesome for you.
 
I do have this setup and the pictures are great / unique but as others have said the lens is big, heavy and autofocus speed is ssssllllloooowwww. To begin with you might be disappointed with your hit rate.

In normal circumstances the lens I use most for people out on location is 70-200 2.8 followed by 24-70 2.8.
 
As said if you really want an 85 then the Sigma Art is the better choice.
70-200 2.8ii is a fantastic lens and covers a lot of the focal range for portraiture. Love my one it is just so sharp
 
EspressoJunkie said:
Having had a look at your other post, personally I think its daft to buy such high end equipment. I think you'd be much better buying something more basic and learning on that first, before spending a huge amount of money.
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This definitely.
If you don't know what the "f" means, you have a fair bit of learning to do before considering shelling out thousands on kit.

If you want to buy equipment that will eventually help you get to a "professional" level, I would suggest you look at starting a little lower than the brand new 5D MkIV.
Body wise, I'd suggest either a secondhand Canon 6D (about £800) or a secondhand 5D Mk3 (about £1200). Both a "full frame" bodies and will be suitable for professional use later.
Lens wise, I'd got for either a Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 or Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 VC (both about £600) as a good general purpose zoom lens, both good quality and much better value when starting out.

Start with that kit, and once you have got a suitable level of proficiency you can upgrade the lens or the body.
The 24-70mm zoom lens will allow you to do landscapes at 24mm and go upto 70mm for close ups and portraits, it's a very versatile lens.

I would suggest starting with a zoom lens until you have worked out what sort of lens length you like working with, then add a prime (50mm/85mm/135mm) to your kit depending on your need.

Also worth noting that the 5D Mk4 and that 85mm f1.2 are not only heavy, but both physically big, depending on the size of your hands and arm strength you may find some cameras more or less comfortable to hold. This is something worth checking out in a store. There is nothing that can replace having a camera in your hands to work out if it will work for you.
I find the Canon 6D is about right in my hands, much bigger or heavier would be uncomfortable, equally a smaller camera would also be uncomfortable.

There's nothing wrong with buying secondhand, it'll allow you to get a good grasp of photography and get your skill level up without spending so much money and then once you're ready (which could take a while) and when the kit you have is not able to do something, you can upgrade either by trading in or selling in the classifieds.
 
FizzyFish said:
I'm Upgrading all my kit that's about 10+ years old. I want to get into portrait photography - eventually at a professional level, but location shoots, not studio, I personally hate studio shoots.
But being out of the photography world for a while - and - check out my post in the beginners section - being a total technical idiot I want some people to check over my selection before I waste thousands on the completely wrong kit!

Camera:
Canon EOS 5d Mark IV
Lens:
Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

Then I'm thinking about a wide angle lens to do woodland shots of kids? Thoughts?

Thanks :)
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This maybe a stupid question but how easy is it to become a professional portrait photography? Are you sure that this will be a good investment? Would a 6D be better as it costs much less and if you don't become professional could be less of an expensive mistake?
(Of course I don't know anything about your financial situation so apologies if I am wrong. I also have to point out that I am not really interested in taking portrait photographs nor do I know much about them. I am only at best an average macro photographer)
 
EspressoJunkie said:
Having had a look at your other post, personally I think its daft to buy such high end equipment. I think you'd be much better buying something more basic and learning on that first, before spending a huge amount of money.
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Well I personally don't think its daft at all.

I went down the route of thinking I needed basic gear before even going near the top market stuff. Id hate to see how much ive wasted on gear through the years when I should have just bought the 5D Mark II when I started out. No camera is too complicated for anyone, they all do the same thing. So why not get the best of gear if you can afford it. If you decide its not working out for you then sell it on and you won't lose too much.

I don't think she said she wants to be a professional portrait photographer, she did say at a "professional level". That could mean many things.
 
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LBJNBA said:
Well I personally don't think its daft at all.

I went down the route of thinking I needed basic gear before even going near the top market stuff. Id hate to see how much ive wasted on gear through the years when I should have just bought the 5D Mark II when I started out. No camera is too complicated for anyone, they all do the same thing. So why not get the best of gear if you can afford it. If you decide its not working out for you then sell it on and you won't lose too much.

I don't think she said she wants to be a professional portrait photographer, she did say at a "professional level". That could mean many things.
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This is true, but how many people ( not just in photography) buy the best of the best and end up selling it at a loss a few months/years down the line?

Just my 2 cents, but I reckon it's as important to learn what kind of photographer you are, as well as the technical side of things. If this is done on cheaper equipment, it then allows you to plan more expensive purchases with a greater sense of direction :)
 
EspressoJunkie said:
This is true, but how many people ( not just in photography) buy the best of the best and end up selling it at a loss a few months/years down the line?

Just my 2 cents, but I reckon it's as important to learn what kind of photographer you are, as well as the technical side of things. If this is done on cheaper equipment, it then allows you to plan more expensive purchases with a greater sense of direction :)
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Agree with you there, I've been there with the cheaper cameras, maybe I just have bad GAS but thats why I've ended up with a 1DX Mark II :P
 
LBJNBA said:
Well I personally don't think its daft at all.

I went down the route of thinking I needed basic gear before even going near the top market stuff. Id hate to see how much ive wasted on gear through the years when I should have just bought the 5D Mark II when I started out. No camera is too complicated for anyone, they all do the same thing. So why not get the best of gear if you can afford it. If you decide its not working out for you then sell it on and you won't lose too much.

I don't think she said she wants to be a professional portrait photographer, she did say at a "professional level". That could mean many things.
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Yup.

Buying cheaper gear and "upgrading" later usually costs money. I say "usually" as I've sold some kit for more than I paid but that's the exception rather than the rule. I think I'd argue against the really high end exotic choices such as the 85mm f1.2 though and maybe a nice f1.4 such as the original Sigma would be good enough. I had that lens and until I went to Sony I thought it was the best AF lens I'd used.

One little article that's a fun read and struck a chord with me :D ...

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/05/letter-to-george.html
 
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If they've had their gear for over 10yrs they are not a beginner wasting money on a hobby they might not stick to. Saying that walking around with that setup is my idea of hell.

The xt2 and 56mm f1.2 springs to mind but I'm a Fuji evangelist. Perhaps the 23mm f2 in your pocket.
 
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Does buying cheaper gear and then upgrading later really cost more money? These days worthwhile new technology upgrades arrive every few years. If you buy expensive and maintain your ambitions and enthusiasm you'll be upgrading expensively in a few to several years time anyway. If you know very little of the technology and what the various differences in technology mean in terms of differences in images and capabilities then another approach is to regard your first purchases as buying an education, stuff you'll throw away or give to a young novice once you've understood how to get the best out of it, what its limitations are, and what you'll really get in terms of improvements by upgrading.
 
rjbell said:
If they've had their gear for over 10yrs they are not a beginner wasting money on a hobby they might not stick to. Saying that walking around with that setup is my idea of hell.

The xt2 and 56mm f1.2 springs to mind but I'm a Fuji evangelist. Perhaps the 23mm f2 in your pocket.
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Ouch! Waaaaay too cumbersome for me. Pockets are for keys, tissues and sweeties. GX80, 17mm and 45mm f1.8's :D Or actually just my Sony A7 with 35mm f2.8 or a 50mm attached :D
 
chris malcolm said:
Does buying cheaper gear and then upgrading later really cost more money? These days worthwhile new technology upgrades arrive every few years. If you buy expensive and maintain your ambitions and enthusiasm you'll be upgrading expensively in a few to several years time anyway.
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If that's how you live your life then once you've upgraded several times and eventually got to a decent system you'll still update if not upgrade every few to several years but... you've already spent all that time and money getting to what could have been a starting point with a good system.
 
@FizzyFish FWIW I was in a similar position about 2 years ago upgrading very old kit with a desire to get back into photography. After discussing with photographer friends and some research I went for the 5Dm3 and started to collect good lens (some new some second hand when I could get them) including the 85 1.2. In my case I haven't looked back, it's been an amazing journey.
 
woof woof said:
Ouch! Waaaaay too cumbersome for me. Pockets are for keys, tissues and sweeties. GX80, 17mm and 45mm f1.8's :D Or actually just my Sony A7 with 35mm f2.8 or a 50mm attached :D
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Yeah too cumbersome for me too I'll just use the xt1 and 27mm :)
 
LBJNBA said:
Well I personally don't think its daft [to buy top end equipment at first] at all.

I went down the route of thinking I needed basic gear before even going near the top market stuff. Id hate to see how much ive wasted on gear through the years when I should have just bought the 5D Mark II when I started out. No camera is too complicated for anyone, they all do the same thing. So why not get the best of gear if you can afford it. If you decide its not working out for you then sell it on and you won't lose too much.
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I say it depends if you know exactly what you want to achieve to start with, or if you are buying something to experiment with.

Until you know the kind of photos you are taking, then buying the best 85mm lens out there because "its what the professionals us" (or whatever justification you are using to yourself) is not a good idea - IMO as always. Buying the top end body isn't necessarily a bad thing ... though whats more important is a camera body you are happy using (and if you buy a lower end body now you might find it useful as a backup / second body later if you really get into all this photography malarky!). But perhaps a good zoom will offer more flexibility and help you find your own style, rather than forcing you into a particular style because thats what lens you have - prime lenses (fixed focal length) are undoubtedly the best in terms of quality, but don't discount a more basic "walk about" lens. Something like a 24-105 on a full frame camera will enable you to experiment a lot as you find your feet. You say in your other thread you are a creative person; so you won't be looking to copy someone's style so you will want flexibility. Later buying primes might be the way to go, but not (IMO) as a first step.

So my advice would be to go and have a look at the different options ... Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Sony, Pentax, Olympus and Panasonic. Don't worry for now about if you need full frame or crop sensor and find what suits you, what you enjoy holding and using. A big Canon 5d IV might not suit your hands, just as a small Fuji X-T2 doesn't suit other peoples. You might try a Sony A7 and fall in love with the EVF, or you might find it hateful and distracting you from the process of framing a photo and so want a Canon or Nikon with good OVF. Also don't be afraid to look at second hand ... you can buy something, try it for a few months and then resell at very little loss that way if it doesn't suit your style.
 
Getting a complicated camera with lots of features packed into it might be a pretty big learning curve? Also, are you sure those focal lengths are what you want and need? How about buying a mint condition, used Canon 6D with 24-105 L IS lens (from a reputable shop/dealer with good guarantee) instead and see how you go with that for a while? (And no, I'm not selling mine!)

Once you've learnt the ropes with that, and seen what focal lengths, ISO speeds, etc. you actually use for the type of photography you do, you can sell (or trade in) the 6D kit (unless you want to keep it as a second body - it is a good camera) and get exactly the kit you've found you actually need, instead of what you think you need at this stage?

I think buying a 5D Mk iv could perhaps be a bit like buying a Bentley Continental to learn to drive and take you test in... It's possible (funds permitting), and I'm sure it's a wonderful car, but would a smaller, lighter, car with most of the same controls and features (but still with a good bit of performance when required) be easier for a novice to learn on and master to start with?

It's your money and your choice, but hopefully my post has been useful and given you something to think about. :)
 
I'm sure the 5dIV will do the job but it's a very expensive way of doing it. The Nikon D750 would give largely similar performance for half the price, and is certainly more than enough for professional results.

.. but having just seen your other thread I think even that would be overkill for your current needs. You could probably get a decent body & lens second hand for £500 and upgrade when you understand the limitations and your own needs.
 
As a second thought and in addition to my earlier post...
FizzyFish said:
being a total technical idiot I want some people to check over my selection before I waste thousands on the completely wrong kit!

Camera: Canon EOS 5d Mark IV
Lens: Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

Then I'm thinking about a wide angle lens to do woodland shots of kids? Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I suppose the question no one asked is how did you come up with this list of equipment.

If you read the internet and saw this is equipment that people recommend randomly, then yes you might be about to make an expensive mistake. If you went into a store, had some demos of various equipment, took some test photos in situations close to (though in a shopping environment vs woodlands you were suggesting) and felt "creative" with the equipment and liked the results; then no its not a bad choice of equipment and if you buy cheaper then you will likely end up selling and buying on your way to getting a 5d and the 85mm f/1.2.

What I'm saying is the thought process behind your choice is what makes it a good or bad purchase. You'll likely be able to take almost as good photos with a Canon 760d and its kit lens, but if you're not happy with that equipment then its the wrong choice.
 
woof woof said:
Ouch! Waaaaay too cumbersome for me. Pockets are for keys, tissues and sweeties. GX80, 17mm and 45mm f1.8's :D Or actually just my Sony A7 with 35mm f2.8 or a 50mm attached :D
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Wow way too cumbersome. Pockets are for the credit card to pay for the photographer to follow me around and take amazing images of me... :D
 
Sorry I'm very late getting back to this post, I had a sick child, then another sick child - eugh chicken pox!
Anyway, I've loved reading your replies, so just to clear a few things up -

I've been given £6,000 by grandparents who want me to upgrade my kit and pursue photography again, the money is solely for that purpose they're very strict about that! ;-) So it's not money I want to waste because It's not money I'd be able to save up again too quickly and is an awesome opportunity not to be missed - I want to get it right!

I am not very technically minded as I've said before, but I like to think I'm pretty good with a camera regardless, I don't necessarily think you need to always know WHY things work, as long as you know that they do! I used to do it semi professional (I guess you'd call it?!) I used to do band photography - like album cover stuff not gig photography - to get some extra pennies whilst being a student and I regularly take pics of my kids and family so I'm not starting from the very basics, but I've not really upgraded my kit for a while and I know things have changed a lot since then!

I see your points about buying cheaper/second hand but I don't want to buy a cheaper or second hand kit because of the reasons above - I will eventually upgrade again anyway and I have this money now, and only now so want the best I can afford! I know I'll have to learn a lot but I'm not as stupid/ditsy as I probably come across ;-)

Eloise - You've made a good point, I'm such an online girl, I hate going into the city so yea it's just online reviews I've been going on - I will have to suck it up and go to the city and try in some shops!

Thanks for the sigma suggestions, I've only been looking at Canons as that's all I've ever used so this gives me more choice and will do some investigating :-)

Great to know my choice has a slow focus, that probably makes it useless for me, kids move too quick! I have a very slow focusing tele lens and it does my head in!

Thanks everyone for the awesome suggestions, I will look into them all and I super appreciate you all taking the time to advise me :-)

Sorry again for my lateness!
 
Ok just realised I probably confused you all cos I posted in the 'beginners' section - I just thought it would be a good place to post because I wanted quite beginners info that I failed to learn properly ;-) not a beginner - just too creatively brained for technical jargon ha!
 
If you like the look of 85mm portraits, need faster focusing and want canon then try the 85mm f1.8. This focuses very quick, I find it great for indoor or low light sports so should work for kids too :)
 
That makes more sense now you've added some context ;)

Very generous grandparents you have and a lovely gesture.
I think I would still shy away from the 85mm 1.2 because it's cumbersome and slow to focus.

If you're going to spend the whole £6k, I'd go for either a
New 5D3 with Canon 24-70 f2.8L Mk2 (the Mk1 is heavier anyway) £3700 ish
or New 5D4, then add the Canon 24-70 f2.8L Mk2 secondhand - circa £4600
Canon 85mm f1.8 - fast to focus, great lens - £250ish new
Canon 135mm f2 L - £500ish
Sigma 35mm f1.4 Art - £600ish

Don't forget to think about a new computer to process the bigger files and then also add a couple of flashes, stands and modifiers. And that's most of the budget gone ;)
 
If you've got the money and you want to 1.2 I'd get it, you're always going to want it.

I personally would go for a 5d iv, 24-70 ii and the 85 1.2, £5140 from panamoz today. You've got enough left to get a bag, memory cards and even a flash.
 
The new Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art is being touted as the best (or sometimes 2nd best to Zeiss) 85mm lens out there.
 
ABTog said:
That makes more sense now you've added some context ;)

Very generous grandparents you have and a lovely gesture.
I think I would still shy away from the 85mm 1.2 because it's cumbersome and slow to focus.

If you're going to spend the whole £6k, I'd go for either a
New 5D3 with Canon 24-70 f2.8L Mk2 (the Mk1 is heavier anyway) £3700 ish
or New 5D4, then add the Canon 24-70 f2.8L Mk2 secondhand - circa £4600
Canon 85mm f1.8 - fast to focus, great lens - £250ish new
Canon 135mm f2 L - £500ish
Sigma 35mm f1.4 Art - £600ish

Don't forget to think about a new computer to process the bigger files and then also add a couple of flashes, stands and modifiers. And that's most of the budget gone ;)
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I was going to say something very similar, albeit Nikon oriented. Get a cheaper body, a variety of lenses, ND filters, new PC, monitor, calibrator, bag, memory cards, card reader, lens pen, WB card or ColourChecker, decent reflector, graphics tablet, backup system, some insurance and some lights - and that might leave you with a bit for training. If you want to do it professionally you'll need a backup body too.
 
Frankly, what Simon said, if you're serious about this, £6000 buys you a great intro to the gear you'll need, but spending it on one camera and one lens is ridiculous.

What will you do when your intended shot requires a longer lens? Or shorter? Or you need fill light, or someone offers you a pile of money to do a day of headshots.
Or offers you a great wedding opportunity?


A few years ago I was determined I specialised as a 'natural light' photographer, and that I was happy shooting on crop cameras. Here I am now using my lighting as a USP and having switched to FF.

It's OK to have an idea what you'd like to do, but finding 'your market' will have a bearing on the kit and training you'll need to succeed.
 
one thing to bear in mind before forking out all that money on the 85mm f1.2 is that it seems likely a new canon 85mm lens is coming out this year.
http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-ef-85mm-f1-4l-is-usm-on-the-way-cr3/

judging by the gazillion reviews out there, the current f1.2 is undoubtedly a great lens if a little long in the tooth, and it would probably irk you if the newer lens handled 99% of your requirements, possibly better and at a cheaper price than the current 85mm.
That said, the new lens might be a dog. Or delayed indefinitely. Or cost twice as much. Who knows.

Anyway, i thought i'd mention this so at least you don't buy the old one and then find out about the new lens a week later.

In any case, with the money you have, i'm sure you'll manage to put together a great system for portraits, and the precise makeup will likely be dictated by how flexible you want the system to be.
One last thing to bear in mind in your budget, is that you'll likely need to spend money on software (and getting trained in the software) - i think the days of delivering images out of the camera are over, no matter how good your equipment. (I'm probably at risk of getting annihilated by saying this on a forum but i think most would agree nowadays).
 
Thanks everyone! Probably should have given all the information in the first place haha! I was just all excited about their awesome offer and rushed a bit! I'm not going to upgrade until I'm good and ready though. I have a new computer already - I'm lucky my dad works with computers for a living so mine is constantly upgraded for free and has recently been done due to Windows 10 messing it up! I will need a new screen though - something I hadn't actually thought of so thanks for that! I have Corel photo software and have had training in photoshop at uni but personally never got on with it, but possibly because we had to use macs and my god I hate them! Perhaps have to see if I can get a free trial and have a go!
I will look into getting a cheaper body then and a few different lenses - makes sense!
Lots more research to do!
Thanks!!! :-)
 
Eloise said:
The new Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art is being touted as the best (or sometimes 2nd best to Zeiss) 85mm lens out there.
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Sure, that is very significant, but then it doesn't do f/1.2 (if you need it). The choice is not that simple
 
FizzyFish said:
I will need a new screen though - something I hadn't actually thought of so thanks for that! I have Corel photo software and have had training in photoshop at uni but personally never got on with it, but possibly because we had to use macs and my god I hate them! Perhaps have to see if I can get a free trial and have a go!
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If you go down the Adobe software route then there's 2 parts to 'photoshop': Lightroom, which is the part for developing, cataloging, exporting etc images, and Photoshop the pixel-level editing program. Lightroom is available stand-alone, or as part of Adobe Creative Cloud with Photoshop, for which you pay a monthly subscription.

There are other packages that also offer similar functionality to Lightroom, such as DXO Optics pro and CaptureOne. All these are available as downloads with a free 1 month evaluation, and you should give them a try to see which suits. All of these packages work in exactly the same way whether on a PC or Mac, so if you ever have to change platform, there's minimal learning required.

Regarding buying an 'instant outfit', if you don't have any lenses to carry forward from the previous outfit then there is no need to be tied to canon. You should look at what's available from Nikon and Sony too: Nikon have better sensors and Sony have smaller, easier handling bodies and the same sensors, plus some outstanding Zeiss lenses.
 
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