Camera...mainly for Dragonfly shots

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Philip
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Hi All.

I have recently re-kindled an interest in Dragon/Damselflies, and would like to get some decent images without paying out a fortune.
I have tried the Canon 100mm Macro, and found it did not have the reach I needed (full frame body). The next alternative is the Canon 180mm macro. However, I wouldn't use it enough to warrant the high price. At the moment I am using a 70-200 2.8 IS with a 1'4 converter on a full frame body...but it's heavy. It appears the best solution would be a compact with high Optical Zoom, but must take Raw images.
Does anyone have any suggestions?

Regards,

Philip
 
Hi Philip

A friend of mine gets stunning shots using a Nikon P7700 compact - don't think it shoots RAW though. The Panasonic GH4 and Nikon V1 seem good, but you need a good long lens for it.

There is a very active Dragonfly thread in the Wild and Free forum. Many people use APS-C SLRs for the extra reach with telephoto lenses such as the 100-400mm II L, 300mm f4. Generally though for a 150mm macro is the minimum lens as dragons/damsels will react to your presence if you get too close. The key to successful dragonfly photography is reach - the more the better, hence the APS-C and tele-lens suggestion.
 
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Have you considered a kenko 1.4 or 2x TC for using with the 100mm macro lens ? I use both combos with my 5d2, not many of dragonflies but plenty other macros.
 
Brachytron said:
Hi Philip

A friend of mine gets stunning shots using a Nikon P7700 compact - don't think it shoots RAW though. The Panasonic GH4 and Nikon V1 seem good, but you need a good long lens for it.

There is a very active Dragonfly thread in the Wild and Free forum. Many people use APS-C SLRs for the extra reach with telephoto lenses such as the 100-400mm II L, 300mm f4. Generally though for a 150mm macro is the minimum lens as dragons/damsels will react to your presence if you get too close. The key to successful dragonfly photography is reach - the more the better, hence the APS-C and tele-lens suggestion.
Click to expand...

The P7700 does shoot RAW but shot to shot is very slow even with a fast card. Why did I sell it :(
 
I understand a lot of dragonfly photographers do pretty well with a 300mm F4 as it can focus very close for a tele.
 
Brachytron said:
Hi Philip

A friend of mine gets stunning shots using a Nikon P7700 compact - don't think it shoots RAW though. The Panasonic GH4 and Nikon V1 seem good, but you need a good long lens for it.

There is a very active Dragonfly thread in the Wild and Free forum. Many people use APS-C SLRs for the extra reach with telephoto lenses such as the 100-400mm II L, 300mm f4. Generally though for a 150mm macro is the minimum lens as dragons/damsels will react to your presence if you get too close. The key to successful dragonfly photography is reach - the more the better, hence the APS-C and tele-lens suggestion.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mark. It seems the Compact route is the way to go. All I need now are some good recommendations....I'm currently looking at this one..
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ60
 
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If you can fill the frame with the image on a small sensor you will get as many pixels on the image as a crop with the wrong set up ………. but IQ and detail are important, so I'm not sure about fixed tele lens compacts with too small a sensor ….. maybe the ones with bigger sensors?

I find the x 2 sensor of the V1 + a 300mm lens will give me what I want from a good distance, and usually I don't have to crop the image, other than a very little for balance purposes - I just happen to use the 300mm f4 Nikon …..

If I can I always use a mono/tripod, (90% of the time) with Dragons and Damsels - if you observe them for even a few minutes you will find that most of the time they come back to the same perch at certain times of day

I would say - use a 300mm - if you can at f8 and plus … but experiment
Look at the light and the angles and what's in the background and position your set up to get the best overall composition - then wait and observe .. if you can get parallel on to the subject so much the better

If you have a cropped sensor DSLR use that in conjunction with a 300mm+ lens - I have found that the (around) 100mm macros are fine some of the time…….. but not as good as the longer lenses

(I have used the 300mm and the 105mm f2.8 Nikons in conjunction with the V1, D7100 and D700) - contrary to some advice, I always find AF useful

If you don't have a 300mm + lens …… unless you can borrow one …… I'm not sure what you can do ……. but I would certainly try one with Dragons before spending £££'s on a dedicated macro lens

Hope this helps
 
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I've got good results with a 100mm macro. A lot of the success is observation. As they're quite habitual they come back to a favoured perch a lot of the time so you can move up on it when they're away. If you move slowly you can get within an arms length or two of them a lot of the time. You can even shove a stick in the ground next to a pond and they'll start using it within 20 minutes.
 
Have you tried using the 100mm macro with extentions tubes and/or a Raynox?

I sometimes put a Raynox on the end of my 105mm Sigma which produces stunning magnification (on FF).
 
Hi Jim. The 100mm macro I had was faulty, so I took it back and got a refund. I need something that will give me reasonable magnification along with a reasonable stand off distance (if such a thing is possible) Also, I don't really want to spend silly money as it is only a casual hobby.
 
I've found that I get the best results from finding their perch …… sitting by it with a 300mm on a tripod and just waiting, pleasant pastime ……….. they do tend to spend a couple of hours in one place at a time and the same place regularly - I know that Graham on here uses a old MF 300mm zoom, Canon fit, third party lens I think and get good results
Dragons in flight a a different proposition and are difficult ……. but with most close ups you have time

I see that you are a Canon user ……. are there any good IQ third party old "macro" 300mm zooms by say Tokina or others that have good reports, (I don't think the earlier Canons MF's fit do they?) …… you will probably pick one up cheaply

light, position etc., are really important unless you want to go into a flash set up
 
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I have bought a Sigma 70-300mm APO which is useful for me due to the lightness and my arm problems. It has a Macro (close up) setting in the 200-300mm range. I bought the lens from WEX for £47.00 as a cheap lens for this and hand holding BIF. My 300mm F4 was too heavy for me to use.

This is a quick play from about 1.8 meteres away. Not sure if this enough Macro for your needs as they don't go to 1:1 it says 1:16.5 on lens at the 200mm end and 1:3.5 on the 300mm end.

20150419-DSC_1937 by Simon Rees, on Flickr
 
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been looking thru my "close up" shots of Dragons from last year - noise seem to be the biggest problem for me even at low ISO settings - be interesting to see what the D750 can bring
 
If the weather plays ball tomorrow, I'll have a few hours at my local reserve. I'll try my 5D Mark II with 70-200 2.8+1.4 converter. If it doesn't suit what I need then I'll have to make a decision quickly.
Thanks to All for your help
 
I take it you only want static shots, as I don't see a compact being able to AF on flying dragons and manual focus will also be painful. The other thing to consider is to get the best shots it will need be bright to get the f stop for a decent DOF and focusing with a screen not a view finder could be tricky in bright sun light. If it is not bright your ISO will go very high and can a compact cope with ISO over 1000 I don't even bother going over this on a 1Div if going to be cropping bug pictures. The Lumix DMC-TZ60 looks good but have a look through its flickr group and there are not many bug picture at high magnification.

With the 100mm macro try putting a stick in the bank where you have a good clean background it won't take long to attract a sitter, I have seen people do this and it seems to work but slightly cheating imo.

If you are thinking of taking in flight shots rather than static stick with the 70-200L and x1.4 but also think about getting a x2 converter. I got a Kenko DGX off here for about £60 I think. It works well on my 70-200f2.8. It is a heavy set up but get some good results. It might sound daft but if you don't already use one a grip one will add weight but also balance the 70-200 making it more comfortable.

x2 converter on 70-200 @ 400mm produces reasonable results. Static shots could be sharper it guess

Emperor first of 2015 by Martin Billard, on Flickr

As I am into in flight shots I mainly use a 70-300L as it is light (relative), super sharp and able to crop to 100%. They seem to go reasonably cheep second hand but more than the £250 compact money.

I hope your trip is productive and good luck with the choice.
 
Thanks Martin. I think after mulling over the replies, the Compact option is out. I'll see if I can get any shots this afternoon with my set up, although it's been pretty quiet here in Cheshire because of the lousy weather. On a positive note, I did manage to see 3 Hairy Hawkers last Thursday which was a new species for me.
 
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