Camber Sands Deaths

The first report I read of this yesterday morning said that 2 children and an adult had been pulled from the water all having suffered a cardiac arrest. The blame was put on possible jelly fish stings. Now the reports say all the victims are men. Count is now up to 5 and one more still missing. No update on the cause as yet.
 
The news said the after effects from the earth quake in Italy, something very terrible suddenly happened.
 
Could have been a rip tide. I got caught in one when I was a teenager. It dumped me on the beach within seconds and I'd been pretty far out. Even though I was 13 or 14 at the time I was a strong swimmer. Probably too confident though. The water wasn't particularly rough but I think I'd tried to duck under a wave and ended up in the current.

Not long after I got out of the water a 19 year old Italian man drowned.

That was in South of France though.
 
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I photographed this in Tenby a couple of weeks ago, having experienced Atlantic coast Spring tides myself, it's worth noting.
 
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The tide in this area come in very fast, and can catch even those that know the area. As a kid of about 14 yrs old we were caught out at Southport, the tide is a mile or two ot and we were right at the waterline when we looked back the tide had already wrapped around the back of us. Not a problem we thought, as its shallower the closer to shore you get? Nope the sand rises and falls considerably and although obvious later the low points on the sand can be 2 or 3 feet of water in the middle. if its traveling at tidal speed and its 2 or 3 feet deep it can be a little daunting to wade through.

In the end we ran over a mile down the beach to finally catch it up, very odd to be at the point of the incoming tide, looks like a little water a few cm deep going very slow, the V shape very quickly expands behind it. As it traveled along it filled up holes people had dug just playing sand castles and whatnot very fast.

You need to experience this, you then develop a healthy respect for tides and the sea! and the signage dotted about the place, that you may have ignored previously. All this happened to us when mobile phones were called car phones!

Very sad id this loss of life however it happened.
 
Local news were saying the 5 men were from London on a day and, and very likely caught in the riptide
Very sad event
 
So often rip tides. There needs to be more information on how to act if caught in one. Those who rarely get to the coast follow the natural and understandable instinct to fight against it, but that's the problem. They exhaust themeslves quickly with tragic results.
 
Camber sands is a great place to take kids to play on the dunes and on the vast sandy beach and have a paddle, if the tide is in. Or just as a place to go for a walk and beach comb in winter. But it is a hopeless place for swimming as the sea is just too shallow. For many years it was a place we went to regularly as it was only twenty minutes from our then house.
I never actually saw a rip tide there but I know they can occur. Any good swimmer should be able to swim sideways out of a rip and then return to shore, but it could be further than expected.

I am sure these lads were cut off by the tide and perhaps were poor swimmers. I only ever once walked out to the waterline at low tide, it is a pretty risky thing to do unless you know how long you have got before the tide turns.
This is not something a londoner would even think about.

Camber sands is only a moment away from Rye or Dungerness, where you can buy fresh caught fish to take home for tea, we usually bought dabs... just as tasty as plaice but much cheaper.
 
It could possibly have been a rip tide ,but unless you live by and use the sea you won't realise that the tides go in phases ,yesterday was only 2 days after the August high Spring tides so the water would have come in and risen very fast even more so if the wind was behind it and pushing it up the English Channel ,which obviously narrows the further towards Dover you get ,combine all of them together and you get a potential for disaster as happend yesterday .
.the best way to put it is imagine you have a boat with a outboard motor and your top speed is 6 knots ,( mph) your sailing it in a large bay where the tide comes in and out ,your trying to get back to harbour against the tide which is a high Spring tide running at six knots ,so basically your standing still till the strength of the tide eases off .as a swimmer you have no chance at all.
The other way to put it was when I had my yacht it was kept on a mid harbour mooring that dried out at low tide ,on a neap (low) tide it would take around a hour or more after the tide started to come in to lift it off ,on a spring tide (high) it would take around fifteen minutes or less .spring tides like yesterday can come in as fast as a express train faster than most people can run in fact ,there are two Spring tides every moth it's nothing to do with the seasons it refers to the Spring effect of the moon on the tides
 
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Serendipitous Sid said:
Stand by for a move to ban sea bathing on the grounds that people need to be protected from endangering themselves ...
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And surprise surprise, one of the families is doing just that, saying the beach should have been closed... Tens, or even hundreds of thousands use the sea with a few deaths each year... probably less risky than riding a bike. Sure you could get bad luck like get caught in a rip tide but often people shouldn't take the risks they do.
 
cambsno said:
And surprise surprise, one of the families is doing just that, saying the beach should have been closed... Tens, or even hundreds of thousands use the sea with a few deaths each year... probably less risky than riding a bike. Sure you could get bad luck like get caught in a rip tide but often people shouldn't take the risks they do.
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I looks like it was unfortunately in-experience, and that they were caught out by the tide coming in, in combination with the sand bars that developed some deep channels. Whilst it is very tragic, it is in experience and under estimating the power of the see. You see it happening over and over again. It was the sand bars, and sand is used loosely as they are filled with rock, boulders and all sorts.
 
Very sad, tides have caught many people out over the years, Morecambe Bay tragedy being one of the worst I can remember.

I lived on the coast for a few years, very similar to Camber where the sea went out a long way at low tide and came in very fast cutting off sandbanks.

Although I'm a Londoner I learnt to have a healthy respect for the sea, tide tables gave high and low water times and local knowledge was also vital for staying safe
 
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cambsno said:
And surprise surprise, one of the families is doing just that, saying the beach should have been closed... Tens, or even hundreds of thousands use the sea with a few deaths each year... probably less risky than riding a bike. Sure you could get bad luck like get caught in a rip tide but often people shouldn't take the risks they do.
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It was the about 30 years ago when four teenagers were killed when climbing on rocks at Lands End. The families claimed there should have been fences up. But by that logic half of Cornwall would have needed to be done. No-one seems to take responsibility anymore, or accept life can be dangerous and accidents happen.
 
Sad event, maybe a good idea it there isn't allredy some pretty strong signage about swimming when the tide is far out.
 
The beach topography is of very undulating contours. A rising tide can leave folk standing in very shallow water, but with areas of deep water separating them from the dry beach.
I can imagine that there are a lot of people who think they can swim OK (in a pool) suddenly find that having to swim in the sea to get to safety is a lot more demanding. That would be my predicament. I can swim, but inefficiently and therefore quickly burn up my energy.
 
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arclight said:
The beach topography is of very undulating contours. A rising tide can leave folk standing in very shallow water, but with areas of deep water separating from the dry beach.
I can imagine that there are a lot of people who think they can swim OK (in a pool) suddenly find that having to swim in the sea to get to safety is a lot more demanding. That would be my predicament. I can swim, but inefficiently and therefore quickly burn up my energy.
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Indeed, and I keep on being amazed how many people who can't swim proficiently go into the sea. I'm born in the water (figure of speech) but wouldn't dream of going so far out.
 
The latest report I saw was that these guys were having a kick around - presumably they went that far out to find a flatter spot (and to avoid the sensible people keeping closer to shore).
A tragedy, but short of removing all free will, the kind of accident that will happen. We can't remove all risk from life to protect the foolhardy.
 
Having lived within half a mile of the Thames estuary for the majority of my life, I'm only too aware of how dangerous mud flats, sand banks and tidal waters can be, in fact my middle name is that of one of my parents' friends who sadly perished on the mud flats near to where we live.

For anyone who knows Southend/Shoebury in Essex, there's a war relic just over a mile out into the estuary called "The Mulberry Harbour", it was on it's way to be a part of the invasion of Europe where it broke it's back and became lodged on a sandbank on the edge of the shipping channel and has remained ever since.

When I was a kid, we'd regularly walk out to it, swim around it and jump off (around a 20ft drop) but knowing the potential dangers of the tide we'd always speak to the coast guard first who'd tell us the maximum amount of time we had out there before we had to come back.

On one occasion whilst walking out there one of the channels was a little deeper than normal, we carried out but something just didn't feel right when we got to the harbour so we turned around and made our way back in double time, the channel which was normally just over knee height was now chest height.

Our parents who had been with the coast guard said that if we'd have waited another 5 mins before coming in, they'd have scrambled the helicopter for us as we'd been caught out by a rare tidal even where the tide only retreats part of the way before coming back in and there's no real warning when this will happen. It just goes to show even when being cautious and taking the advice of those who know whats what you can still get caught out.

Thankfully for us it was a pretty uneventful end to the day, however the incident at Camber Sands and other places around the UK show just how potentially dangerous our shores can be.

Hopefully we'll find out what happened to these 5 blokes and we can learn and try to prevent others getting into a similar situation.
 
Well the RNLI are blaming the sand bars and saying it wasn't a rip tide. So sounds like the scenario someone mentioned above where they went to a flat part to play football and got cut off by deep water.
 
I have played footie and cricket on sandbars, they must have been very engrossed in the game because it takes a while for the water to get deep on a beach like Camber.

Admittedly it does have bit of a flow on it, waded back through it shin high and felt it against my legs, but would have to be very deep not to get through it.

Have to say this is very weird albeit very sad too, maybe we will never know the facts, but two and two isn't making four here
 
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There's an annual cricket match on the sand bars off Margate, I'm assuming, as it's an old tradition, that everyone involved is well aware of their surroundings and the prevailing conditions.
Be a shame for it to be curtailed as a result of this tragedy.
 
viv1969 said:
There's an annual cricket match on the sand bars off Margate, I'm assuming, as it's an old tradition, that everyone involved is well aware of their surroundings and the prevailing conditions.
Be a shame for it to be curtailed as a result of this tragedy.
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It's been over 20yrs since I have been to Margate, but from what I do remember there isn't much difference in height in the sandbars, but from the few times I'd been to Camber Sands, you could walk on an ankle deep sandbar back towards the beach and find the water up to your neck or actually deeper, before you got back on the beach itself. Not too much of a problem if the is in when you make your way out to the sandbar, but I can imagine it could be quite a surprise if the tide had already been out and you hadn't paid much attention to the undulations on the way.
 
dejongj said:
I looks like it was unfortunately in-experience, and that they were caught out by the tide coming in, in combination with the sand bars that developed some deep channels. Whilst it is very tragic, it is in experience and under estimating the power of the see. You see it happening over and over again. It was the sand bars, and sand is used loosely as they are filled with rock, boulders and all sorts.
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Morecome Bay tragedy in 2004 was and should have been a wake up call for everyone to the dangers of shallow water within sandy areas. The seeming 'safe' bay was and is renowned for saturated 'sandy' pools of 'quicksand' that cannot be mapped.

View: https://youtu.be/HtkxQ1x6N20


Others may also remember the guy who drowned with his son in the fog, he was talking to the emergency services on his phone as the tide came in.

http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/12..._listen_helplessly_as_rising_tide_traps_pair/

As a kid in the late 50s and 60s I remember people being caught and trapped on silt banks on the tidal parts of the River Thames between Westminster Brill and Battersea Bridge. Not that it is still any safer these days.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/w...lose-to-drowning-in-river-thames-9749579.html

All year round both in the UK and abroad, people die from drowning on holiday, in the sea, in rivers, in canals, lakes........

It does not matter how good a swimmer you are, the action of water temperature and body temerature 'drop' from fighting the sea/river etc literally saps your ability to swim to safety. As mentioned above, rip tides can be dealt with. You lose the foght if you battle to swim ashore, the technique is to smim parallel to shore until you are out of the 'rip' tben you can get to shore. It may well be a long way from where you started to where you can reach dry land.

It is not easy to come up with answers but, from my experoence, I was taught to swim at a very early age (3yo) which started at outdoor 'lidos' in London anf the old indoor public swimming baths, to the likes of the swimming ponds in places like Parliament Hill Fields attached to Hampstead Heath and even the Serpentine Lido in Hyde Park. My swimming skills were tested and we did our seiming and life saving badges.

Other skills were added by organisations like the Cubs, Boy Scouts and Air Cadets. In the first 2 it was important to swim as we camped by lakes and rivers and later in the Air Cadets as we exercised on moors with water holes, streams and rivers plus, the opportunitu to flyDH Chipmunks over the English Channel from Manston. There was always the potential to lose the engine and have to ditch in the challe.

We were taught to respect water and not fear it and never take it for granted. The need to understand the way water moves and affects the area it occupies was part of that learning process. It's surprising that many do not know that the Bristol Channel has one of the fastest tidal flows on the planet.

Given how things have changed, less children are getting accrss to development skills that youth organisations offered. For some it is viewed as militaristic but even if it was, the fieldcraft skills I learned over 55 years ago are still in my repetoire.

What happened at Camber was tragic and, sadly, it could happen again and again there or in thousands of other places. Newquay ..... errm there is a reason surfers go there to surf, Aberdeen, a tragedy we may not see happen again but there is no guarantee that it will not.

I am wandering the Wild Atlantic Way in Ireland currently. Some here may well have seen the Cliffs of Moheh in County Clare. Craggy and ancient with the Atlantic smashing into it. Beautiful and you can watch the weather change in seconds. On Wednesday and yesterday I was on the summit and got close to the cliff edge at the top. Not as rugged as Moher but at a cliff elevation of 600m, it was 3 times the height of Moher. The danger was easy to see, and yesterday, nobody fell to their deaths.

5 young men died at Camber Sands after playing football in what, for me from my experience of many years of visits for family days and Norther Soul Weekenders, was one of the most dangerous 'seasides' in the country. There are plenty of them.

No I am not advocatimg putting your kids in the scouts etc but teaching them (and yourself) that there are more dangers than paedophiles in our world. You are never to young to learn about fieldcraft and, looking at some of the photography on TP, there are those on here that understand clearly that dangers can be found anywhere.

Stay safe everyone.
 
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i used to do a lot of sea fishing and myself and more than a couple of friends had narrow escapes from the sea including one very experienced lad having to be rescued by the RNLI and was lucky to survive, he knew when to get off the beach but hit a patch of soft sand that slowed him down and before he knew it he was in the water up to his chest, thank god he was wearing a floatation suit that day and the lifeboat got to him quickly, this was at Blackpool were there are thousands of people on the beaches over the summer.

another couple of mates were fishing for bass one night at an area called the hoyle bank, on some high tides it dosnt get covered,so stays dry all the time, they were fishing it on one of these occasions, it was 1am and pitch black out there, when mick spotted some blue lights on the shore behind them 5 minutes later there was a bright light in the sky heading out towards them(you are about a mile out to sea on this mark), sure enough in a couple of minutes a rescue helicopter was over there heads, they shouted to the crew that they were perfectly safe and would walk off when the tide turned, but the crew coudnt hear them over the noise of the rotors and a guy was soon being winched down to them on the beach trying to persuade them to go back in the helicopter, somebody had spotted their head torches out at sea and called the coast guard...they declined to get on the helicopter but should of as they never had a bite the rest of the tide, would of saved themselves a walk
 
I used to be a Camber Sands regular, and it was one of our fave destinations as a group of teenage lads with bikes for a ride & swim at the weekend. Generally it's a gentle place, with shallow, temperate water and sometimes some decent size breakers for leaping around in when the tide is coming in. Apart from the speed at which the tide comes in it's hard to think of somewhere safer on the British coast.

Very sad really - I hope a bit of fatally careless ineptitude doesn't sod things up for everyone else.
 
Camber regular here, although mostly further to the east at the Broomhill Sands car park area where I do some kiteboarding etc.
Having seen the way the beach has changed over the years, it's no surprise that people get caught out. It's true that there aren't technically rip currents at the beach, but it is entirely possible to be caught by incoming tides moving in between the sand bars that form. These situations are such a waste of life and it's disappointing that people have such little respect for the sea!
 
Cyprino said:
Camber regular here, although mostly further to the east at the Broomhill Sands car park area where I do some kiteboarding etc.
Having seen the way the beach has changed over the years, it's no surprise that people get caught out. It's true that there aren't technically rip currents at the beach, but it is entirely possible to be caught by incoming tides moving in between the sand bars that form. These situations are such a waste of life and it's disappointing that people have such little respect for the sea!
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Back in the 70s we visited regularly and we were warned many times to be aware of the 'shifting sands' and to return to the beach side when the tide turned.

Dec not a rip tide sea run.
 
I once got caught out there when I was a teenager. I suddenly found that I was a lot further from the shore than I thought - didn't understand why at the time and didn't care either - and ran out of strength trying to get back against the tide. I was very lucky, nobody came to help me, nobody even seemed to notice, but I ended up in an exhausted heap, about half a mile from where I tried to get to. My guess is that when I ran out of strength and just floated, instead of trying to fight, the tide carried me to safety. I learned from that, and have always stayed very close to the shore ever since.
 
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