Calling all MICROSOFT users

Andytc

Andytc

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I have a dilemma and am calling upon you good folk for help.

Basically I am an apple gent and do most of my editing with an iMac desktop. But at times I need to rely on my MacBook Pro for editing images and some film.

However the MacBook Pro has gone from "Not very well" to "Terminal" but in truth I don't really have the funds for the apple shop, so I am contemplating on a move back to Microsoft for a new laptop. But its been so long that I have no clue whats on the market and after a short discussion with a guy in PC world who I think was only in for the xmas rush, I am still non the wiser.

I dont mind spending a decent amount but I just don't have the £1600 needed for a new MacBook.

So, I need advice on the best processor to get to be able to run Lightroom and photoshop, the space to hold these programs also and a screen as close to a Mac as possible for colour matching ect.. would also be nice to do all admin and accounts on.

Hope I've made sense as I am not the best at all this posting and getting what I mean down on text.

Thanks in advance & Merry xmas to you all (too early????)
 
TBH you don't need as much as you'd think. My old dell with i7 quad core 1.7ghz (iirc) and 4GB RAM ran LR perfectly well. OK it's not as fast as my current MBP, but not far off so I would have thought any will the latest quad core processors and min 8GB RAM would be perfectly fine and not much in it with your MBP. As for screen you will need a 4K to match the retina MBP, or a 'normal' HD screen will equal the older MBP's. I find all screens need calibrating, but Macs aren't too bad straight out the box.

A warning though, coming from Mac get ready for windows 10 ;) (awaits to be flamed by the windows boys ;)) I loved windows 7, hated 8 and not much fonder of 10.
 
A 4K screen won't match a retina MacBook.

It will significantly exceed it. 220dpi (mac) vs 282dpi (4K). However retina is called retina for a reason. Any improvement in dpi is worthless as it starts to become beyond what we can make out.

A good 2560 x 1440p screen on a 15 inch laptop will be a lot cheaper and give a close 195 dpi.

Fwiw a 40 inch 4K telly that looks so 'amazing' will have a resolution of 110dpi!
 
Brazo said:
A 4K screen won't match a retina MacBook.

It will significantly exceed it. 220dpi (mac) vs 282dpi (4K). However retina is called retina for a reason. Any improvement in dpi is worthless as it starts to become beyond what we can make out.

A good 2560 x 1440p screen on a 15 inch laptop will be a lot cheaper and give a close 195 dpi.

Fwiw a 40 inch 4K telly that looks so 'amazing' will have a resolution of 110dpi!
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Yeah I didn't word it well, I didn't mean in absolute resolution terms that it's a "match" :oops: :$
 
Windows 10 is brilliant, but why swap OS platforms. Won't all your software you've bought be mac versions?
Instead of new, why not consider second hand? If you're used to a mac, I wouldn't swap systems. Time to learn etc.
 
Byker28i said:
Windows 10 is brilliant, but why swap OS platforms. Won't all your software you've bought be mac versions?
Instead of new, why not consider second hand? If you're used to a mac, I wouldn't swap systems. Time to learn etc.
Click to expand...
Yep, you can also buy refurbs.
 
You don't have to change to Microsoft either if you don't want to. Many of us here are happily using Linux distros like Ubuntu, Mint, Kubuntu and many more.
 
ianp5a said:
You don't have to change to Microsoft either if you don't want to. Many of us here are happily using Linux distros like Ubuntu, Mint, Kubuntu and many more.
Click to expand...

Adobe make versions for Linux now? Is that a new thing?
 
I don't know about Adobe. But it might suit the OP, where cost is an issue.
 
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Is your old macbook beyond repair? The apple gurus (or whatever they call themselves) are usually very good - we had an old Mac at work that was needed and broke down, they were able to fix it despite it being 8 or more years old. This was the crew in London somewhere ...

Somewhat reluctantly I find windows 10 to be very good - so don't understand some of the negativity, it is easy to use, reliable enough and fast enough. As for laptops, I've been in a similar position, needing a laptop but not having the funds to buy the "very best" (windows based in my case). The Dell XPS range take some beating but are pricey, their Inspiron range is usually good value and reliable. It is always worth checking the Dell Outlet store online too, as they often have some basically new laptops in at good prices.

I ended up getting a Lenovo, it ticked all the boxes for me, good value, decently made and well specified, so worth looking at.


Andytc said:
Merry xmas to you all (too early????)
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Yep ... too early - still November ;)
 
PaulButler said:
Somewhat reluctantly I find windows 10 to be very good - so don't understand some of the negativity, it is easy to use, reliable enough and fast enough. As for laptops, I've been in a similar position, needing a laptop but not having the funds to buy the "very best" (windows based in my case). The Dell XPS range take some beating but are pricey, their Inspiron range is usually good value and reliable. It is always worth checking the Dell Outlet store online too, as they often have some basically new laptops in at good prices.

I ended up getting a Lenovo, it ticked all the boxes for me, good value, decently made and well specified, so worth looking at.


Yep ... too early - still November ;)
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As with most things it's purely preference. I use Mac, windows 8 and windows 10 and don't like the UI and way the later windows work, but loved 7. Some people love 10 but hate Mac, some hate both ;)
 
snerkler said:
As with most things it's purely preference. I use Mac, windows 8 and windows 10 and don't like the UI and way the later windows work, but loved 7. Some people love 10 but hate Mac, some hate both ;)
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Yep, but they are just tools, it only takes a moment switch between the two/three or whatever (only one I have probs with now is Linux as I'm way out of practice) ... not like when I first started and all we had was a command line ... (that sorted the nerds from the humans ;))
 
PaulButler said:
Yep, but they are just tools, it only takes a moment switch between the two/three or whatever (only one I have probs with now is Linux as I'm way out of practice) ... not like when I first started and all we had was a command line ... (that sorted the nerds from the humans ;))
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Yep tools they are, and yes much easier now than they used to be. However, doesn't stop us from having a preference :p
 
ianp5a said:
I don't know about Adobe. But it might suit the OP, where cost is an issue.
Click to expand...

How would using a completely unsuitable OS suit the OP just because it's free?

The OP said:

So, I need advice on the best processor to get to be able to run Lightroom and photoshop, the space to hold these programs also and a screen as close to a Mac as possible for colourmatching ect.. would also be nice to do all admin and accounts on.
Click to expand...

If someone asked for the best car to do 2000 mile road trip would you then suggest walking because it's free?

Linux might be fun for those wanting to play on a computer and show they aren't beholden to "the man", probably along with home made sandals and tie dyed shirts ;), but it's pretty worthless to someone wanting to run Lightroom and Photoshop...
 
I had missed the point about Lightroom. But who knows what the OP really wants if it's something they didn't previously know about. But you are spreading mis-information for some reason. I presume you have some hang up about it.
 
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ianp5a said:
I had missed the point about Lightroom. But who knows what the OP really wants if it's something they didn't previously know about. But you are spreading mis-information for some reason. I presume you have some hang up about it.
Click to expand...

You advocate Linux for someone wanting to use Lightroom and Photoshop and I'm the one spreading mis-information???

You sure you aren't looking in a mirror as you typed that last post?
 
As I said I'd missed that bit so it's clear why I said it. You appear to have some odd reason to want to put a downer on Linux though.
 
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ianp5a said:
As I said I'd missed that bit so it's clear why I said it. You appear to have some reason to want to put a downer on Linux though.
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I do if people actually want to use the laptop for photographic purposes, or even business purposes. Linux users love to make out how so many Windows/Mac programs have Linux versions but many of them are either clumsy bodge programs or don't really exist.

Fun for a second machine, nightmare if you only have one and want to work on it...

I suppose it is good for running a server on though.
 
Dave1 said:
How would using a completely unsuitable OS suit the OP just because it's free?

The OP said:



If someone asked for the best car to do 2000 mile road trip would you then suggest walking because it's free?

Linux might be fun for those wanting to play on a computer and show they aren't beholden to "the man", probably along with home made sandals and tie dyed shirts ;), but it's pretty worthless to someone wanting to run Lightroom and Photoshop...
Click to expand...
Though you can run Lightroom and Photoshop in a VirtualBox Windows on Linux, though I'm not saying it would be satisfactory, it obviously depends on performance. OT But Performance in virtualisation is a bit unpredictable in my experience.- I'm currently running an older OSX version in Parallels on Mac OS Sierra and it seems to run faster and handle memory better than when I ran it natively on the same Mac mini :-)
 
Andytc said:
I have a dilemma and am calling upon you good folk for help.

Basically I am an apple gent and do most of my editing with an iMac desktop. But at times I need to rely on my MacBook Pro for editing images and some film.

However the MacBook Pro has gone from "Not very well" to "Terminal" but in truth I don't really have the funds for the apple shop, so I am contemplating on a move back to Microsoft for a new laptop. But its been so long that I have no clue whats on the market and after a short discussion with a guy in PC world who I think was only in for the xmas rush, I am still non the wiser.

I dont mind spending a decent amount but I just don't have the £1600 needed for a new MacBook.

So, I need advice on the best processor to get to be able to run Lightroom and photoshop, the space to hold these programs also and a screen as close to a Mac as possible for colour matching ect.. would also be nice to do all admin and accounts on.

Hope I've made sense as I am not the best at all this posting and getting what I mean down on text.

Thanks in advance & Merry xmas to you all (too early????)
Click to expand...
A refurb MacBook Pro is about £1000 currently.
 
sphexx said:
Though you can run Lightroom and Photoshop in a VirtualBox Windows on Linux, though I'm not saying it would be satisfactory, it obviously depends on performance. OT But Performance in virtualisation is a bit unpredictable in my experience.- I'm currently running an older OSX version in Parallels on Mac OS Sierra and it seems to run faster and handle memory better than when I ran it natively on the same Mac mini :)
Click to expand...

I tried Photoshop in a VirtualBox when I dabbled with Linux, it ran like a half dead donkey with 3 broken legs :p.
 
Some idea of budget from the OP may give more idea of what is possible.

I have run Photoshop and Lightroom on my 5 year old laptop with few problems until recently. That had AMD Athlon Dual Core M320 2.1GHz, 4GB RAM, 320GB HDD, 15.6" HD TFT. It has motherboard issues and is starting to slow.

I ordered a new laptop last week, and the base specs were Intel Core i5-6200U Processor Up to 2.8GHz, 8GB DDR3 1600MHz Memory, 128GB mSATA SSD + 1TB Hard Drive, 14" FHD Matte Screen. I upgraded the SSD to 250GB SSD. I wanted an upgrade on what I have, but also a smaller computer to carry around, which pushed up the price. Lots of cheaper higher spec options with 15.6" screens. All that is £585, and comes with no OS. I'll hopefully have that Thursday or Friday to see how good it is. I will be putting Win7 on, as have had issues with Win 10 on two computers I have tried to upgrade.
 
Dave1 said:
I tried Photoshop in a VirtualBox when I dabbled with Linux, it ran like a half dead donkey with 3 broken legs :p.
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If the processor supports VT-x and you use a decent hypervisor, i.e. one provided by VMWare rather than Oracle, then the CPU based parts should run at native speed. I've done a lot of testing using VMWare ESXi/vSphere. I haven't tested how graphics are handled as that's not of interest to my products. Hyper-V by Microsoft also seems OK, though if you've already got a Windows OS, why you'd then have another as a guest to run photoshop is unclear so it's not really applicable. My experiences with VirtualBox were not positive, though some swear by it.

Running the hypervisor on a processor without VT-x extensions (or with them disabled in the BIOS) is a massive chore and all-round seriously bad idea as it is so slow.
 
Andytc said:
I have a dilemma and am calling upon you good folk for help.

Basically I am an apple gent and do most of my editing with an iMac desktop. But at times I need to rely on my MacBook Pro for editing images and some film.

However the MacBook Pro has gone from "Not very well" to "Terminal" but in truth I don't really have the funds for the apple shop, so I am contemplating on a move back to Microsoft for a new laptop. But its been so long that I have no clue whats on the market and after a short discussion with a guy in PC world who I think was only in for the xmas rush, I am still non the wiser.

I dont mind spending a decent amount but I just don't have the £1600 needed for a new MacBook.

So, I need advice on the best processor to get to be able to run Lightroom and photoshop, the space to hold these programs also and a screen as close to a Mac as possible for colour matching ect.. would also be nice to do all admin and accounts on.

Hope I've made sense as I am not the best at all this posting and getting what I mean down on text.

Thanks in advance & Merry xmas to you all (too early????)
Click to expand...
Realistically if you want the same level of experience, you will have to spend the same level of money with Windows. And after a diversion of 1.5 years, I'm so glad to have gone back to the Mac, even when spending that level it was still not the same experience with too many annoying moments. In truth you will not save money unless you compromise on something.
 
Alternatively, you could buy a PC based computer and install MacOSX on it (using the CD/Licence from your dead MacBook). Cheaper hardware and still the operating system you know.
Check out http://www.hackintosh.com/
 
I have a similar dilema... Was thinking about a Dell XPS or something similar. Any suggestions?
 
onomatopoeia said:
If the processor supports VT-x and you use a decent hypervisor, i.e. one provided by VMWare rather than Oracle, then the CPU based parts should run at native speed. I've done a lot of testing using VMWare ESXi/vSphere. I haven't tested how graphics are handled as that's not of interest to my products. Hyper-V by Microsoft also seems OK, though if you've already got a Windows OS, why you'd then have another as a guest to run photoshop is unclear so it's not really applicable. My experiences with VirtualBox were not positive, though some swear by it.

Running the hypervisor on a processor without VT-x extensions (or with them disabled in the BIOS) is a massive chore and all-round seriously bad idea as it is so slow.
Click to expand...


There's a bit more to it than that. There are a whole range of Virtualization technologies, which you need a modern(ish) CPU to benefit from.

VT-x is the tip of the iceberg. Wikipedia makes for informative reading:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization

I would want to pass GPU hardware through to a guest OS running Photoshop.
 
Phil Hurst said:
I have a similar dilema... Was thinking about a Dell XPS or something similar. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

I migrated 2 1/2 years ago from Macbook to XPS15. Both machines are flawed: the XPS trackpad is less good and the right click function is becoming difficult now, plus I had the keyboard changed under warranty (but it was onsite warranty - not return to an apple store) and the materials used to construct the lid aren't quite as durable as the ali used for the Macbook. The Macbook required a replacement Mobo after 3 months (had to go back to the store, Genius was reluctant to accept it could be faulty even when demonstrated) and the trackpad right click function became difficult after 4 years, screen is very poor although retina should be good now, would get uncomfortably hot underneath when watching movies, OSX workflow management is poor & relys on individual applications to manage workflow.

I would have bought another Macbook if they had been upgradeable, but by that time there was no upgrade path and the cost of a decent spec machine was daft. I also prefer workflow management of windows, and was actually very happy to get a windows machine again after the frustrations of OSX.
 
What do you mean when you refer to workflow managements? I love it how most applications on OSX have AppleScript hooks so you can automate the integration with nearly anything.
 
dejongj said:
What do you mean when you refer to workflow managements? I love it how most applications on OSX have AppleScript hooks so you can automate the integration with nearly anything.
Click to expand...

I mean that a window containing work is either open on screen or minimised on the dock. Fine with a couple of documents open, but if, as I have sometimes, you have maybe 10-15 excel spreadsheets and 10 word documents open then finding the one you want is frustrating. Expose in 10.5 that I was using at the time would leave the small version of the document too small to see what it was, and viewing the wrong document would change the order in which they were displayed when returning to expose, making locating the page required completely hit & miss. In windows with 25 documents open every document is also accessible in the taskbar, and hovering over it shows the name of the document - workflow is managed readily.

Things may be managed better now, but it was simply stupid then, and the macbook came very close to going through a window several times.
 
For anyone weighing up Macbook v. PC Laptop, I'd recommend watching some of the Louis Rossmann videos or trawling through his Reddit AMA.

I can't argue that the finish isn't nice. It is. And some things Apple do get right. The touchbar sounds like a nice innovation. And the ability to run a Unix terminal is nice too. The Apple ecosystem does tie in well together.

They are axing Time capsules and Airport routers which I think is a bit of a smack in the face for Apple customers. The very expensive Mac Pro is now very out of date and ridiculously expensive.

Their devices are very overpriced when considering what you actually get for the money. The hardware is no more reliable than PC hardware and increasingly designed to be replaced rather than repaired. The debate around the NYC right to repair bill is interesting and eye opening. Some of it brings home how Apple regards it's consumers.

I think open platforms (PC, Android) suffer because of the crap low end manufacturers turn out. It's no use comparing a £200 PC laptop with a Mac Book. Of course the Mac Book is going to be better. But drop a £1.5k on a Lenovo or a Dell* Laptop and you get a quad core CPU (versus dual core) and a proper 4k display. It might not be as pretty, but the build quality is better, they are easier to upgrade/repair, on-site repairs are available (usually inclusive for the first year) and best of all, you don't find the device factory re-installed when the repair isn't for a failed hard disk.


*Latitude or Precision, XPS is prosumer and I would have thought most people here would be probably heading towards a 'mobile workstation'
 
ancient_mariner said:
I mean that a window containing work is either open on screen or minimised on the dock. Fine with a couple of documents open, but if, as I have sometimes, you have maybe 10-15 excel spreadsheets and 10 word documents open then finding the one you want is frustrating. Expose in 10.5 that I was using at the time would leave the small version of the document too small to see what it was, and viewing the wrong document would change the order in which they were displayed when returning to expose, making locating the page required completely hit & miss. In windows with 25 documents open every document is also accessible in the taskbar, and hovering over it shows the name of the document - workflow is managed readily.

Things may be managed better now, but it was simply stupid then, and the macbook came very close to going through a window several times.
Click to expand...
Cool thanks for the explanation, not something I experienced but we are all different. In order to cycle through just the windows in an application; i.e. the MDI windows I generally use command+`. I used to use hyper switch in the past but generally I don't have that many documents in the same application open and on a very large screen expose works pretty good to identify the one.

afasoas said:
For anyone weighing up Macbook v. PC Laptop, I'd recommend watching some of the Louis Rossmann videos or trawling through his Reddit AMA.

I can't argue that the finish isn't nice. It is. And some things Apple do get right. The touchbar sounds like a nice innovation. And the ability to run a Unix terminal is nice too. The Apple ecosystem does tie in well together.

They are axing Time capsules and Airport routers which I think is a bit of a smack in the face for Apple customers. The very expensive Mac Pro is now very out of date and ridiculously expensive.

Their devices are very overpriced when considering what you actually get for the money. The hardware is no more reliable than PC hardware and increasingly designed to be replaced rather than repaired. The debate around the NYC right to repair bill is interesting and eye opening. Some of it brings home how Apple regards it's consumers.

I think open platforms (PC, Android) suffer because of the crap low end manufacturers turn out. It's no use comparing a £200 PC laptop with a Mac Book. Of course the Mac Book is going to be better. But drop a £1.5k on a Lenovo or a Dell* Laptop and you get a quad core CPU (versus dual core) and a proper 4k display. It might not be as pretty, but the build quality is better, they are easier to upgrade/repair, on-site repairs are available (usually inclusive for the first year) and best of all, you don't find the device factory re-installed when the repair isn't for a failed hard disk.


*Latitude or Precision, XPS is prosumer and I would have thought most people here would be probably heading towards a 'mobile workstation'
Click to expand...

I fully agree that you need to compare like for like. Unfortunately when you do that in my experience then the difference in price is never the deciding factor unless say £50-£100 on nearly £2K is a huge difference to you. Bigger difference can be obtained but in my experience they are always based upon an compromise. Sure the compromise may be agreeable but lets agree that one is no longer comparing like for like.
 
The comparison is valid for many reasons. Essentially Mac or PC, it's a choice between two platforms intended to compete with each other and do the same job. Hence the OP's original post and many more just like it.

I've tried to do a more objective and fact based analysis here:
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/apple-mac-versus-pc-grappling-the-nettle.642449/

It's hard not to be subjective about the OS given it's heavily based on experience. However you can add your own comments to the thread.

I am hoping it won't turn into the usual Apple v. Microsoft debate, instead serving as a useful frame of reference for anyone making this decision.
 
I currently use a dell XPS15 and it's a lovely machine. Windows 10 currently has a few issues with 4k screens but they're disappearing as companies update their software and drivers. Nice as it is, I still prefer editing on a proper workstation. Laptops are surely for on the go work?
FWIW, Windows 8 was the point where I really stopped using Linux for most things. Memory management and speed are substantially better than 7. 10 is in my opinion a good upgrade. My Mac is currently an expensive paperweight. I think it's nearly 4 months since I used it. When I looked at the new Mac book Pro I was hoping for more and I was shocked at the price.
Ultimately it comes down to which OS you prefer, how much cash you have to splash and how much you're willing to play with the computer to get the most out of it.
 
My XPS is attached to a 24" screen and external keyboard & mouse at home except when I want to sit on the settee & watch films. At work it's also hooked up in the same way, but if I travel for work then it's very handy.

For holiday travel then the (7YO) 13" Macbook comes along, because the value left in it isn't enough to worry. It actually weighs the same as the XPS15, but it's probably a bit more robust.
 
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