Call me stupid but........

[archangel]

What is with all the anti-Semitism......seems to be every day there is another attack at the Jewish community......I have googled this phenomena but all I seem to be getting is various propaganda websites.......What exactly made certain people hate Jews......I can't actually find one particular thing in history that makes them a target.......surely Isis and their supporters would be a better target for words and action......is it about wealth? I am sure there are poor Jewish people........religious belief? Plenty of other faiths out there not being targeted eg the Quakers....it's not like they are forcing their religion upon us.......can't ever remember a Jew cold calling me like the Mormons or the Jehovah's........like I say call me stupid but I just don't get it.......can anyone enlighten me with actual facts not internet gossip/propaganda

 

[boyfalldown]

I don't know why. If you look back through European history anti Semitic feelings have always run pretty high. I don't just mean during wwii either, but it almost seems to be part of the culture from Shakespeare to Wagner. Particularly during difficult economic times.

 

[BRASH]

Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years since biblical times and way before Christ. A fact we may some day regret I fear.

 

[Lynton]

you are stupid...


(Well you did ask to be called it!)

 

[Lynton]

in all seriousness, no idea - they just seem to have been the "whipping boys" since well a long while ago. No idea why. Personally I think there are good / bad of everyone regardless of colour / race / creed / religion / whatever....

 

[cambsno]

in all seriousness, no idea - they just seem to have been the "whipping boys" since well a long while ago. No idea why. Personally I think there are good / bad of everyone regardless of colour / race / creed / religion / whatever....

Historically they have always been 'the people to blame' and many Jews stand out in terms of dress so that can make them an easy target. I guess the whole Palestine issue will provide hatred in the same way that current terror acts do to Muslims.

 

[kendo1]

I don't see why they should be treated as they seem to be. They are just people.
A good mate of mine, Isaac, came to Scotland after leaving Poland where he was victimised by the authorities- special police is what he says.
He works as a general handyman, but was a university professor in Warsaw.
I remember him in tears, thanking me for being his first friend in Scotland.

 

[hashcake]

What annoys me is the biased news reports we get from the likes of the BBC.
I spent a long time in a relationship with a Jewish woman and over the years I got to know members of her family who live in the UK, France, America and Israel and they were all very warm and friendly people.
I’ve heard the stories about her Fathers family escaping Poland and her mothers family escaping from Austria and they will never cease to amaze me.
Whenever missiles are fired back and from between Israel and Palestine, the finger is always pointed at Israel.
However, Israel has only ever fires in retaliation of rocket strikes fired upon them.
The Israeli boarding of the so called aid ship in 2010, we never got half the story in the UK, I've seen some of the news footage and photos of the weapons that were found aboard that ship which totally contradict the news that was reported here in the west.
For many years there were tunnels between Egypt and Gazza that were used from smuggling weapons and at least Sky news showed report on them some years ago whereas the likes of the BBC have never mentioned them.
Most Israelis are in favour of giving back the occupied territories, it's the politicians who are holding back.
There are quite a few muslims living and working in Israel and there are plenty of mosques and they are left in peace to lead their lives.
I’ve been to Israel several times and I never once felt threatened or unsafe there, in fact I would say safety there is far better than the UK for several reasons.
Israel is a beautiful country and the photographic opportunities are endless and yet it is generally avoided by western society because of the fear the news broadcasters try to instil.
I consider myself to be empathic and I always listen to the plight of people.
I am a sympathiser towards the Jewish cause and believe in the state of Israel and accept Israeli being their homeland because of the persecution they have suffered over the centuries.

 

[Yves Geza]

I'll sit back and let this one run but I suppose in some ways I'm the TP Jew, although away from here, apart from my big schnozz, I'm not very Jewish at all!

I'm a secular [read non-believing] Liberal [read low church, non-observant] Jew but I do know that within living history, and maybe again in the future, if a man in a Swastika armband says "get on that train over there!", it doesn't matter how Jewish I do or don't think myself to be.

Jews have almost always been a minority among a bigger society almost everywhere. Jews are the ubiquitous outgroup. The eternal "other". And blamed and doubted for it. Ironically nowadays there's the State of Israel where they're a majority, and that's become a reason for blaming them too!

But it's perhaps worth recording that the Jews are the metaphorical "canary in the coalmine" of civilsation and civil liberties. After intolerance has come for the Jews it will come for someone else next.

 

[Box Brownie]

As far as I understand it? Before the creation of the state of Israel the Jews had not had a homeland since before pre biblical to times.

They have lived in a widespread diaspora where in many places they were only though for centuries tolerated because of their learning and oft times wealth in some (many?) instances money lenders to kings and leaders........therefore subject to the political winds/whims blowing in their countries of domicile.

As a people never fully accepted as part of the countries they are settled in they became and still are in some cases reviled and persecuted. As noted above it is a sad reflection that for some reason Jews are still seen as the "target" where hatred of differences persists. The only other people seen as less welcome again possibly because of their still stateless status are gypsies!

In regard to the OP's question I await those more learned than me to explain why this was and still is the"state of affairs".

 

[PaulButler]

Mike I fear you may have asked the unanswerable question.

 

[ancient_mariner]

As far as I understand it? Before the creation of the state of Israel the Jews had not had a homeland since before pre biblical to times.

They have lived in a widespread diaspora where in many places they were only though for centuries tolerated because of their learning and oft times wealth in some (many?) instances money lenders to kings and leaders........therefore subject to the political winds/whims blowing in their countries of domicile.

As a people never fully accepted as part of the countries they are settled in they became and still are in some cases reviled and persecuted. As noted above it is a sad reflection that for some reason Jews are still seen as the "target" where hatred of differences persists. The only other people seen as less welcome again possibly because of their still stateless status are gypsies!

In regard to the OP's question I await those more learned than me to explain why this was and still is the"state of affairs".

The Jewish diaspora started with the fall of the first kingdom of Israel (separate from Judah) and the deportation of the Israelites by the Assyrians, culminating with the fall of Jerusalem to the Romans around AD70 and the effective dissolution of Israel as a nation-state.

The Jews are likely the 'canary in the coalmine' as Jonathan put it, because they keep themselves separate from the nations into which they have come to live, and are often clever & successful at whatever they engage in, therefore a natural target. Historically, they have been punished by some parts of the church for Jesus crucifixion, but because of their success and wealth, have often been needed in order to help fund various monarchs and nobles ambitions - needed, and often loved less for it.

 

[Nawty]

My understanding of the current newsworthy stories is that the persecution of the Palestines and in particular Gaza is being used as a reason/excuse by jihadists. Could be wrong though.

 

[archangel]

Mike I fear you may have asked the unanswerable question.

I think I might have.......I can't seen to find any data online or elsewhere that can give me an answer.

 

[new2me]

Some people will always want to pick on someone.

 

[hashcake]

My understanding of the current newsworthy stories is that the persecution of the Palestines and in particular Gaza is being used as a reason/excuse by jihadists. Could be wrong though.

Partly yes but it's the way the western press paints the picture, there are plenty of people in some of the less stable Arab countries who don't recognised the state of Israel and would like to it wipe of the face of the earth.

 

[onomatopoeia]

I'm a secular [read non-believing] Liberal [read low church, non-observant] Jew

I have to ask this because this is where my understanding breaks down, and if I'm honest, it is something that has perplexed me my entire adult life. How can one be a secular (non believing) Jew? Surely you either believe in the central tennets of the Jewish faith, or you don't, in which case you aren't Jewish. I was raised a Catholic, but I realised shortly before I was confirmed that I didn't believe in any of it (I was still confirmed, the school didn't give you a choice). If the question is asked, I don't describe myself a non-beliving Catholic, I call myself an atheist.

 

[Marc]

I have to ask this because this is where my understanding breaks down, and if I'm honest, it is something that has perplexed me my entire adult life. How can one be a secular (non believing) Jew? Surely you either believe in the central tennets of the Jewish faith, or you don't, in which case you aren't Jewish. I was raised a Catholic, but I realised shortly before I was confirmed that I didn't believe in any of it (I was still confirmed, the school didn't give you a choice). If the question is asked, I don't describe myself a non-beliving Catholic, I call myself an atheist.

I suspect that Jonathan, like myself, considers himself Jew as in race rather than religious beliefs.

 

[Cobra]

I suspect that Jonathan, like myself, considers himself Jew as in race rather than religious beliefs.

And correct me if I'm wrong but I too thought that "Jew" or "Jewish" was a race
and Judaism was the religion of Jews ?

 

[Yv]

I suspect that Jonathan, like myself, considers himself Jew as in race rather than religious beliefs.

And correct me if I'm wrong but I too thought that "Jew" or "Jewish" was a race
and Judaism was the religion of Jews ?

'race' is probably the closest description, though still not technically accurate [how many other 'races' can vary from black africans to blond haired, blue eyed northern european types] , simply because there is no technically accurate description. HE is busy typing one of of his windier posts about it, just so you are braced

 

[Yves Geza]

I have to ask this because this is where my understanding breaks down, and if I'm honest, it is something that has perplexed me my entire adult life. How can one be a secular (non believing) Jew? Surely you either believe in the central tennets of the Jewish faith, or you don't, in which case you aren't Jewish. I was raised a Catholic, but I realised shortly before I was confirmed that I didn't believe in any of it (I was still confirmed, the school didn't give you a choice). If the question is asked, I don't describe myself a non-beliving Catholic, I call myself an atheist.

Just because! That's the $64,000 question, Mark, and there's no simple answer but I'll try.

Judaism is a religion but it's also a culture and a people. It's not a race because I can take you around London and introduce you to Jews who are black Africans and others who are blue-eyed blondes but perhaps calling us a race is the nearest understandable explanation. Not all Jews look like Golders Green "Yeshiva Bochers" ["Talmudic scholar boys"] who dress like something out of 18th century Poland.

The last time I discussed this, was with a Jewish guy who was selling to my business and we ended up agreeing that no one could really define Judaism. "It's a thing" we agreed. It's different. "It just is!". But he told me a lovely story.

He was on holiday in China. I can't remember which city, but it wasn't Beijing or a major tourist attraction, when he heard a call over the hotel tannoy saying, "If there are any Jewish gentlemen in the hotel, could they come to reception!?" So he did. It turned out that an old Jewish man had died somewhere in the city and they were trying to gather a "minyan", a group of ten adult Jewish males to say Kaddish [the prayer for the dead] over his body. And in that city in the middle of China they found ten Jews!

Perhaps part of Jewish identity comes from a history of persecution and anti-semitism. As I said earlier, in living memory it didn't matter whether German and European Jews were religious or atheist, totally integrated or married into Catholic families. Whether they observed religious festivals or ignored them. Almost uniquely in history, Jews are a group who have found themselves defined by others.

For information, the shooting in Copenhagen late last night, was an attack on the reception after a Bat Mtzvah - for a 13 year old girl and her family. And the unarmed guy who was murdered, died protecting the 80 family and friends who were celebrating inside and who would all have been targets if the gunman had gained entry.

 

[Cobra]

'race' is probably the closest description, though still not technically accurate [how many other 'races' can vary from black africans to blond haired, blue eyed northern european types] , simply because there is no technically accurate description. HE is busy typing one of of his windier posts about it, just so you are braced

Off to get a coffee, ready to settle down to read
Actually I didn't know that there was such a diverce culture in the "Jewish faith / race"
What I'm really saying is, I had no idea that there were black Africans "Jews"

 

[Yves Geza]

Off to get a coffee, ready to settle down to read
Actually I didn't know that there was such a diverce culture in the "Jewish faith / race"
What I'm really saying is, I had no idea that there were black Africans "Jews"

Israel has a load of Ethiopian and Yemeni Jews, most of whom who left their homelands after 1947. And lots of Jews who immigrated from Egypt, Syria, Morocco, Lebanon, Algeria, etc etc where their families had lived for millennia, not just centuries and from where they were driven out. You don't hear about them, because they were integrated into Israeli society between 1948 and 1967 and not disowned or dumped in refugee camps to become convenient political footballs

 

[Box Brownie]

Off to get a coffee, ready to settle down to read
Actually I didn't know that there was such a diverce culture in the "Jewish faith / race"
What I'm really saying is, I had no idea that there were black Africans "Jews"

Not quite sure how many years back (possibly the 1980's) but there is an Ethiopian Jewish sect that claims very direct links to a biblical exodus and they were persecuted in their homeland. These people were accepted for 'return' to Israel but I recall there was a degree of controversy in Israel at the time??? Wracks brains but I think they were called Falasha's ?

In regard to the disparate ethnicity of those of Jewish origin as far as I know unlike all/most other religions Judaism does not promote conversion of other faiths to it. It can take years of devotion and the appellant to prove their faith before they are accepted should someone wish to convert!

Edit oooops! Missed out a "not"

 

[Yves Geza]

In regard to the disparate ethnicity of those of Jewish origin as far as I know unlike all/most other religions Judaism does not promote conversion of other faiths to it. It can take years of devotion and the appellant to prove their faith before they are accepted should someone wish to convert!

Jack Rosenthal explained it in his TV play 'The Knowledge' about London cabbies.

"If you're Jewish, you're Jewish. If you're not Jewish you can't be Jewish"

It might also help if I tell you there's only one Jewish telegram "Start worrying! Details to follow"

 

[Box Brownie]

Jack Rosenthal explained it in his TV play 'The Knowledge' about London cabbies.

"If you're Jewish, you're Jewish. If you're not Jewish you can't be Jewish"

It might also help if I tell you there's only one Jewish telegram "Start worrying! Details to follow"

my dad was a Green Badge Cabbie, he went on to do the Knowledge after his demob following his repatriation having been a PoW following the fall of Crete. He did not talk a lot about that time but saw much in regard to the way peoples were treated because of their origins ~ Russians, Gypsies etc suffice to say he survived in part due to those fellow PoWs around him.

Yes, Jewishness is not entirely about Judaism

 

[the black fox]

Sharm el sheik in Egypt owes its existence to the fact it was used to import thousands of Ethiopian Jews into Israel during the Israeli occupation of the sinia

 

[onomatopoeia]

The last time I discussed this, was with a Jewish guy who was selling to my business and we ended up agreeing that no one could really define Judaism. "It's a thing" we agreed. It's different. "It just is!".

Thank you gor explaining, at least as far is is possible!