Calais - Serious intervention required

archangel said:
But this does not take into account the free medical care, prescription, rent allowance, child benefit plus other sundries they can end up claiming over a period of time.....
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No they cannot, not until they are granted leave to remain and then they are just as much entitled as you or I or anyone else.
 
archangel said:
But this does not take into account the free medical care, prescription, rent allowance, child benefit plus other sundries they can end up claiming over a period of time.....
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I do like the idea that somehow the parliamentary briefing paper is wrong. an asylum seeker can't claim child benefit or 'other sundries'. This is worth a read http://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/policy_research/the_truth_about_asylum/facts_about_asylum_-_page_1 Especially the bits about housing benefit and where people seeking asylum end up.
 
dejongj said:
No they cannot, not until they are granted leave to remain and then they are just as much entitled as you or I or anyone else.
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bad backs, unable to work, more allowances

27 kids to look after and a mother in law - more allowances + a mini bus
 
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archangel said:
I have a property which I let out to tenants, I could easily get another £150 a month by taking in immigrant families, but on principle, I chose not too, I would rather have a lesser amount of rent from a private employed renter, rather than some unemployed lay about or an immigrant family being paid for by the state... Or should I say the working man's taxes....this country is all wrong from the top to the bottom and we are too much of a soft touch...we should be looking after those who want to and cancontribute to the economy, without bleeding the system dry...
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I think you are a little confused, you do realise that asylum seekers are not allowed to work. It is not their choice to do nothing. Until processed and leave to remain has been granted they are not allowed to work.
 
boyfalldown said:
I do like the idea that somehow the parliamentary briefing paper is wrong. an asylum seeker can't claim child benefit or 'other sundries'. This is worth a read http://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/policy_research/the_truth_about_asylum/facts_about_asylum_-_page_1 Especially the bits about housing benefit and where people seeking asylum end up.
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@boyfalldown it seems to just go onto deaf ears, some don't want to hear the facts and reality...

@archangel have you actually even ever met an asylum seeker? Have you taken the time to listen to their story and their journey?
 
dejongj said:
I think you are a little confused, you do realise that asylum seekers are not allowed to work. It is not their choice to do nothing. Until processed and leave to remain has been granted they are not allowed to work.
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I know they are not allowed to work but they are entitled to housing, which I have been offered extra money by the social to take in asylum seekers. I actually have no problems with asylum seekers, I just think that we have a society that is struggling to cope with the masses of people that we have.. But getting back to the OP... more definitely needs to be done to prevent the influx of have ago immigrants from breaching our borders and settling in the country..
 
archangel said:
I actually have no problems with asylum seekers, I just think that we have a society that is struggling to cope with the masses of people that we have.. But getting back to the OP... more definitely needs to be done to prevent the influx of have ago immigrants from breaching our borders and settling in the country..
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where do you think we sit in the league table of european countries for taking refuges (or asylum seekers)?

and which countries worldwide do you think take the most?
 
boyfalldown said:
where do you think we sit in the league table of european countries for taking refuges (or asylum seekers)?

and which countries worldwide do you think take the most?
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Saudia Arabia who earn over US$1 billion a day do a lot to help world poverty ........... i don't think so
 
dejongj said:
@boyfalldown it seems to just go onto deaf ears, some don't want to hear the facts and reality...

@archangel have you actually even ever met an asylum seeker? Have you taken the time to listen to their story and their journey?
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I actually have meet more than one asylum seeker, and yes, I have heard the horror stories that some of them have had to endure... But I believe that we need to control immigration very carefully, our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx, at the pace at which it has been gaining...the ordinary working family is suffering...higher taxes, less medical services, less housing and the like...we can't continually be seen as a haven...we just don't have sufficient resources to maintain the level of immigration that we can expect
 
BillN_33 said:
Saudia Arabia who earn over US$1 billion a day do a lot to help world poverty ........... i don't think so
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So.....? Maybe you'd answer the post if you have something to say
 
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archangel said:
I actually have meet more than one asylum seeker, and yes, I have heard the horror stories that some of them have had to endure... But I believe that we need to control immigration very carefully, our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx, at the pace at which it has been gaining...the ordinary working family is suffering...higher taxes, less medical services, less housing and the like...we can't continually be seen as a haven...we just don't have sufficient resources to maintain the level of immigration that we can expect
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Well I think we should help those who fear for their live, the country is hardly full and bad services isn't the fault of the asylum seekers it is our fault ;)
 
boyfalldown said:
where do you think we sit in the league table of european countries for taking refuges (or asylum seekers)?

and which countries worldwide do you think take the most?
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I actually don't care who takes the most or where we sit on the table of good Samaritans...I am more concerned that those who currently live in the UK and contribute, wait until we have sufficient affordable housing and services....when we have solved our own problems then we should look at others and helping them
 
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archangel said:
I actually don't care who takes the most or where we sit on the table of good Samaritans...I am more concerned that those who currently live in the UK and contribute, wait until we have sufficient affordable housing and services....when we have solved our own problems then we should look at others and helping them
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As we've caused it ourselves, and are still perpetuating the problems I think you can wait for a very long time for affordable housing. Once people stop paying stupid prices they may start to come down ;)
 
BillN_33 said:
and the UAE who earn US$150 billion a year really help with foreign aid - I don't think so

so ..... what ... work it out
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all I can see is irrelevant points regarding economies 1/4 size of ours. And a man who's incapable of string the same country into two consecutive posts So what?


archangel said:
I actually don't care who takes the most or where we sit on the table of good Samaritans...I am more concerned that those who currently live in the UK and contribute, wait until we have sufficient affordable housing and services....when we have solved our own problems then we should look at others and helping them
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no, you've demonstrated that ;) Just like to continue your own little prejudices ;) no?
 
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We, sorry you, as I'm not subscribing to this are "supposed to improve the conditions in their home countries" - so it's the Wests problem to sort out and pay for North African poverty while the Saudis and rich arabs stick two fingers up to us and them ...... whilst driving around in their Ferraris and taking 1000 "staff" to support them on a three week holiday on the French Riviera
 
BillN_33 said:
and the UAE who earn US$150 billion a year really help with foreign aid - I don't think so

so ..... what ... work it out
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Actually Pakistan is at the top of the list with Iran second - this may not fit your preconceptions but that's how it is (syria used to be third but not since the IS trouble kicked off) Germany is next, then Kenya , according to the UNHCR 80% of the refugees in the world are housed in countries with developing economies
 
big soft moose said:
Actually Pakistan is at the top of the list with Iran second - this may not fit your preconceptions but that's how it is (syria used to be third but not since the IS trouble kicked off) Germany is next, then Kenya , according to the UNHCR 80% of the refugees in the world are housed in countries with developing economies
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what's that got to do with anything?
 
Ok guys, that's enough, some of you are starting to take this far too personally.
Insults never helped win an argument.
 
Cobra said:
Ok guys, that's enough, some of you are starting to take this far too personally.
Insults never helped win an argument.
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The truth never hurts .... "serious intervention is required"?
 
BillN_33 said:
what's that got to do with anything?
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well the fact that 80% of the refugees in the world are not in fact in the west , and there's only one western country in the top 5 hosts of refugees does tend to drive a large hole through the "its the wests problem to sort out and pay for" theory
 
boyfalldown said:
all I can see is irrelevant points regarding economies 1/4 size of ours. And a man who's incapable of string the same country into two consecutive posts So what?




no, you've demonstrated that ;) Just like to continue your own little prejudices ;) no?
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I am not prejudiced...I am practical...maybe this will gone you an insight to what is going on...recently I was speaking to an elderly couple, she is seriously ill, he was telling me that on social help that they live on approx £60 per week and on that particular day they had no more cash for a further 2 days...where as, in folkestone the Burstan hotel, had recently housed , to full capacity, an over spill of asylum seekers, with 3 meals a day...where is the logic in that?:confused:
 
big soft moose said:
well the fact that 80% of the refugees in the world are not in fact in the west , and there's only one western country in the top 5 hosts of refugees does tend to drive a large hole through the "its the wests problem to sort out and pay for" theory
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I never said they were - all I quoted is what your politicians quoted "we must improve the conditions in their home countries" to sort the problem out

why is it always we

I don't see we coming from the rich middle east .... to deal with problems on their continent
 
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BillN_33 said:
We, sorry you, as I'm not subscribing to this are "supposed to improve the conditions in their home countries" - so it's the Wests problem to sort out and pay for North African poverty while the Saudis and rich arabs stick two fingers up to us and them ...... whilst driving around in their Ferraris and taking 1000 "staff" to support them on a three week holiday on the French Riviera
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thats would be number 1 on my list of things to do if I were somewhere like Syria at the moment.

To do today.

Escape warzone
Make long and potentially dangerous journey leaving my home to do it
Buy Ferrari
Employee Staff

spot the issue with that?
 
boyfalldown said:
because if 'we' sit by and don't help then we get more asylum seekers and more groups like IS
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when we interfere you know what happens

it looks like from your view that if you were to interfere it would even be worse

you really have no idea, IMHO
 
archangel said:
I am not prejudiced...I am practical...maybe this will gone you an insight to what is going on...recently I was speaking to an elderly couple, she is seriously ill, he was telling me that on social help that they live on approx £60 per week and on that particular day they had no more cash for a further 2 days...where as, in folkestone the Burstan hotel, had recently housed , to full capacity, an over spill of asylum seekers, with 3 meals a day...where is the logic in that?:confused:
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I'm not in any position to comment on them. But didn't that paper I linked to somewhat debunk the myth that asylum seekers somehow receive more then OAPs. I would agree, separate from any asylum issue that it is shameful that anyone should be hungry in ine of the richest countries on the planet. But thats separate from the asylum issue and the two aren't linked
 
archangel said:
I am not prejudiced...I am practical...maybe this will gone you an insight to what is going on...recently I was speaking to an elderly couple, she is seriously ill, he was telling me that on social help that they live on approx £60 per week and on that particular day they had no more cash for a further 2 days...where as, in folkestone the Burstan hotel, had recently housed , to full capacity, an over spill of asylum seekers, with 3 meals a day...where is the logic in that?:confused:
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sounds like a daily mail scare story - assuming they are on state pension they get £114 pw each , on top of which they'll also be elligible for housing benefit
 
boyfalldown said:
But thats separate from the asylum issue and the two aren't linked
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the two are linked - that is what we say is the solution ....... think!

what are they seeking asylum from?
 
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boyfalldown said:
I'm not in any position to comment on them. But didn't that paper I linked to somewhat debunk the myth that asylum seekers somehow receive more then OAPs. I would agree, separate from any asylum issue that it is shameful that anyone should be hungry in ine of the richest countries on the planet. But thats separate from the asylum issue and the two aren't linked
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And you've got it spot on there in my opinion. If there weren't any asylum seekers allowed in those people would still be able to make ends meet. The two aren't linked and yes it is shameful that this goes on in our country.
 
BillN_33 said:
the two are linked - that is what we say is the solution ....... think!

what are they seeking asylum from?
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No they are not linked, whether they are here or not will not change their situation one single bit.
 
dejongj said:
No they are not linked, whether they are here or not will not change their situation one single bit.
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who do you think is financing (one side) of the war(s) in the area

the irony is that they are using the dollars, sterling and Euros that they get from us
 
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@BillN_33 & @boyfalldown

I asked you to play nice, obviously you can't.
You both have been suspended from this thread for 24 hours
 
Does that mean he can still use the Bird Forum? :(
 
BillN_33 said:
who do you think is financing (one side) of the war(s) in the area

the irony is that they are using the dollars, sterling and Euros that they get from us
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Its not quite that simple in the case of IS - on the whole they aren't receiving massive funding from the oil states - mostly their weaponry is captured (largely stuff we supplied to the INA who promptly ran away and abandoned it) or weaponry from Iraq and syria arms caches - while there's no doubt that some rich saudi's may be funding them its not a state policy as it isnt in saudi arabias/the house of Faad's interest for IS to win - as they want their caliphate to include mecca and medina both of which are in SA

Iran meanwhile is funding the other side (shia mitilias) , along with Isreal (in the case of the Pesh Merga/PKK)
 
BillN_33 said:
who do you think is financing (one side) of the war(s) in the area

the irony is that they are using the dollars, sterling and Euros that they get from us
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Sorry I may have missed something, I thought the "linking" was in relation to the old couple not getting by on £60 per week yet the asylum seekers getting £30. Are you suggesting that £30 is spend on financing the war?
 
To get free NHS care you need a national insurance card or the E111 to prove your intitled to health care under the EU resipical agreement. You will be charged for anything other than emergency treatment if you can not provide these things.

Many GPs now require a passport to register.
 
BillN_33 said:
We, sorry you, as I'm not subscribing to this are "supposed to improve the conditions in their home countries" - so it's the Wests problem to sort out and pay for North African poverty while the Saudis and rich arabs stick two fingers up to us and them ...... whilst driving around in their Ferraris and taking 1000 "staff" to support them on a three week holiday on the French Riviera
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When did Saudi Arabia become part of North Africa?
 
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