Calais - Serious intervention required

dejongj

dejongj

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This situation is just totally out of control. The French really cannot handle this by themselves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33699141

Much stronger decisive action and control is required in my opinion. It will be interesting to see what the leaders come up with.

I feel sorry for the people from the UK travelling through on their well earned summer holidays, the constant delays and prosecution lorry drivers face, and the workers from Border Force and Eurotunnel at those juxtaposed controls.

And dare I say I feel sorry for the genuine asylum seekers that get caught up amongst these gangs of economic migrants. The behaviour doesn't reflect well on them and resembles exactly that, from which they were trying to escape.

I haven't travelled by Eurotunnel in the last two months but are a very regular user otherwise. I can't say I would be looking forward to taking that route at the moment.
 
I guess the question is, 'why are these people willing to risk their lives to come to the UK when they have already passed through several other EU countries?'.
 
gramps said:
I guess the question is, 'why are these people willing to risk their lives to come to the UK when they have already passed through several other EU countries?'.
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I often wonder why too. I just cannot see why anyone would actually want to live in the UK.
 
As a migrant myself I can totally see why people would want to live here. The opportunities are great, countryside is beautiful, the cities are fantastic. Plenty of space, relatively clean. Anyone willing can make a fantastic life here for themselves.

And not just that, for such a small country it punches above its weight on the international stage. It's got an international voice on nearly everything, so it will be well known and thought of as a huge and important place.

And on top of that we give away billions in foreign aid, man to some this must be imagined like Wonderland where the roads a paved of gold.

Yes I can totally see why they want to come here.
 
So does the problem (and hence solution) lie in France or the UK?
 
I suspect it lies between them (& the rest of the EU) rather then disparate policies as it seems
 
gramps said:
So does the problem (and hence solution) lie in France or the UK?
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Depends what problem you are talking about. This particular one as per the OP is in France, but they don't seem to be capable of handling it and as we have juxtaposed border controls and interest we have to intervene in my opinion.
 
dejongj said:
Depends what problem you are talking about. This particular one as per the OP is in France, but they don't seem to be capable of handling it and as we have juxtaposed border controls and interest we have to intervene in my opinion.
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The problem of people risking their lives to come here ... surely addressing what is making it so attractive, (over and above the countries they have already passed through), would help?
 
dejongj said:
This situation is just totally out of control. The French really cannot handle this by themselves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33699141

Much stronger decisive action and control is required in my opinion. It will be interesting to see what the leaders come up with.

I feel sorry for the people from the UK travelling through on their well earned summer holidays, the constant delays and prosecution lorry drivers face, and the workers from Border Force and Eurotunnel at those juxtaposed controls.

And dare I say I feel sorry for the genuine asylum seekers that get caught up amongst these gangs of economic migrants. The behaviour doesn't reflect well on them and resembles exactly that, from which they were trying to escape.

I haven't travelled by Eurotunnel in the last two months but are a very regular user otherwise. I can't say I would be looking forward to taking that route at the moment.
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Surely if you are a genuine asylum seeker you should stop at the first country that offers safety and asylum, not trek 2/3 way across Europe in the hope of reaching the UK?
 
gramps said:
The problem of people risking their lives to come here ... surely addressing what is making it so attractive, (over and above the countries they have already passed through), would help?
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I wrote something similar in another thread about "Operation Stack" on TF

Any migrant coming from Afghanistan or Iraq firstly has to get to Turkey and then travel (quickest route assumed) through Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium and finally France. All these other countries must share some responsibility !

I am beginning to believe that there is a "Mr Big" / "Organised Crime" involved here when you look at the journeys some of the migrants are taking with little or no money.
 
gramps said:
The problem of people risking their lives to come here ... surely addressing what is making it so attractive, (over and above the countries they have already passed through), would help?
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What are you suggesting to make the UK less attractive? I admit, I'd rather live in a country and society that is deemed attractive to others than not.
 
Paul W. H said:
I wrote something similar in another thread about "Operation Stack" on TF

Any migrant coming from Afghanistan or Iraq firstly has to get to Turkey and then travel (quickest route assumed) through Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium and finally France. All these other countries must share some responsibility !

I am beginning to believe that there is a "Mr Big" / "Organised Crime" involved here when you look at the journeys some of the migrants are taking with little or no money.
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Actually when you take a look at the facts, some of those big western countries take far more migrants than the UK does. I don't understand why people keep on suggesting that "they" should also take some as they already take many more.
 
Lynton said:
Surely if you are a genuine asylum seeker you should stop at the first country that offers safety and asylum, not trek 2/3 way across Europe in the hope of reaching the UK?
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Yes they should, and in theory that is the case. Practically it has been proven over many years that it just doesn't work like that. As such we need to approach it differently in my opinion.
 
dejongj said:
What are you suggesting to make the UK less attractive? I admit, I'd rather live in a country and society that is deemed attractive to others than not.
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I don't have the knowledge of all of the circumstances to make suggestions TBH - I'm not a 'we don't want them here' sort of person but it just occurs to me that if you have 1500 - 2000 people risking their lives to get here as opposed to staying comfortably where they are, there must be some serious imbalance in the way that they are treated in the various countries they pass through that makes them want to face all of that stress and danger to reach here. Is this something the EU should address ... I don't know?
 
dejongj said:
Actually when you take a look at the facts, some of those big western countries take far more migrants than the UK does. I don't understand why people keep on suggesting that "they" should also take some as they already take many more.
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I suspect that they are also much larger in terms of square miles as well... Our benefits system must look very attractive or alternatively all those other countries must have more draconian laws or expectations. Our crowded island isn't really set up for this ... With many of our systems creaking already, don't see how this is sustainable or fixable, especially given the issues in Calais. .. Hey ho... Asylum wasn't meant for economic migrants so not sure how we deal with this at all.
 
The French could handle it, but they will not and would rather keep it in "the news" to harden and influence French public opinion in a number of ways. France is run by a set of deranged socialists, whose only contribution to life is to keep Parisian restaurants in business.

If people break the law, which they are doing, they should be dealt with in accordance with the law, just like anyone else. In situations like this the French police are generally Fascists and Racists and they certainly haven't changed.

When you see a French Policeman in the street he is not there for you to ask him directions to the nearest "tourist attraction" or pass the time of day with.

If these guys were French or English, confronting, disobeying and even attacking the French police, they would be dealt with far more severely, if they were French it would have been "sorted" by now. The CRS would have been brought in, they do not mess around and they can only be pushed so far.

No, as usual, it's political ........ the normal law is being interfered with by politicians who, as usual, are clueless.

With the money that has been spend they could have been "bussed" back to the S of France, given "water-wings" and thrown into the Med, or more seriously, try them, sentence them, build a prison and when their time is up, extradite them and publish this in their "home" countries - that will send a message back to their homeland - with the money that has and is being spent, this would be a cost effective solution.
 
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One of the things that makes Britain attractive is that we are - by comparison to many of our European neighbours - very tolerant of people of different ethnic, racial or cultural backgrounds. Many European countries suffer from far worse racial abuse than the UK, so I can see why migrants - particularly those of darker skin tone or non-Christian belief - would want to settle here.

The only long-term solution to this problem is to improve the countries of origin from which they flee. This is why we cannot turn our back on the world - even if you feel no responsibility to help, it is still in our self-interest to improve the lives of those in poorer nations.
 
The French are more than capable of handling it, the suspicion is that they don't want to. There are many reports of migrants reporting themselves to the French authorities and claiming asylum and the French doing nothing.
As for illegal immigrants taking huge risks to come here, I understand their reasons perfectly well but don't see how they can expect to be accepted as genuine asylum seekers if they apply, because they were already in a country in which they were safe from persecution.
 
We drove through the tunnel on Friday, came back Monday afternoon. Friday was operation Stack, so they closed the M20 meaning we had a 1 hr 20 min divert to get around the closure from junc 8 to 13.
Coming back Monday afternoon, lots of people milling around outside, evidence they were beefing up the fencing around the tunnel, but no additional security staff/police obviously around. French passport control waved everyone through, British had a queue going through everything thoroughly. Traffic this side, especially the m25 was a joke.

To be honest I think I'd rather get a ferry across the channel from Portsmouth/Southampton and take a nice drive through France in future. The French/Belgium roads were quiet, people loved the cars, much more fun.
 
dejongj said:
Yes I can totally see why they want to come here.
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What I can't understand is why here and not France (similar population, much greater area so much more open space, and better food) where they already are, or Germany (similar population, much more space and the economic powerhouse of Europe), or the scandanavian countries.

I agree that we should share the burden with the rest of Europe, but am mystified by the desire to come here specifically. Perhaps we should welcome them in and send them up to the sparsely populated areas (e.g. Highlands and islands) to settle. Nicola Sturgeon can build all the houses needed, she has plenty of space.
 
The French don't want to deal with the problem. They are much happier to allow us to try and deal with it. Hence why they don't properly shut down the camps of immigrants living round Calais. The French are exceptionally good at manipulating the EU to get what they want out of it whereas we are very bad at it.
 
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gramps said:
I guess the question is, 'why are these people willing to risk their lives to come to the UK when they have already passed through several other EU countries?'.
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As I've said before, I think that's fairly obvious, free health care, free living accommodation..

dejongj said:
As a migrant myself I can totally see why people would want to live here. The opportunities are great, countryside is beautiful, the cities are fantastic. Plenty of space, relatively clean. Anyone willing can make a fantastic life here for themselves.
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Yes, but you work hard, play hard & fit in. Many are not even prepared to do the 1st thing,
As above they know that we hand out money and accommodation ;)
 
Most want to go to the UK because they have been led to believe that the UK is the easiest country in which to get money either illegally or legally and also that if they commit crimes or are illegally in the country that their treatment will not be harsh.

They do not want to live in France because this is not the case in France and the French people in general are not sympathetic to them.

Certainly the French systems makes it very very difficult for any of them to benefit financially or to receive other benefits, and I would say that it is almost impossible if you are "not registered" and a non French speakers, it is much easier in the UK.......... the UK even provides free translators in many, many languages........ try to speak to the French services in anything other than French and see what you get.

The UK is just a "soft touch"
 
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BillN_33 said:
With the money that has been spend they could have been "bussed" back to the S of France, given "water-wings" and thrown into the Med, or more seriously, try them, sentence them, build a prison and when their time is up, extradite them and publish this in their "home" countries - that will send a message back to their homeland - with the money that has and is being spent, this would be a cost effective solution.
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FFS some die trying to get here, you think the threat of imprisonment will deter them?

While ever there is such huge inequalities between us and them then they will continue to come and nothing you can do will stop them.
 
jakeblu said:
FFS some die trying to get here, you think the threat of imprisonment will deter them?

While ever there is such huge inequalities between us and them then they will continue to come and nothing you can do will stop them.
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There are nearer countries for them to go to where they will be much better off than in there home country ........ why choose the UK?

They have no right to take the action that they are taking, they are not wanted by the vast majority of the British people, that is a fact, like it or not ............. they are not welcome in the UK no matter what happens to them on their journey to get here ..............the UK is a democracy and the people have decided
 
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Really guys you should look into the problem more rather than listen to what the papers tell you. Most asylum seekers do stay in other countries, in fact far more than come here. Also access to benefits and housing is easier in france than the UK.
 
BillN_33 said:
There are nearer countries for them to go to where they will be much better off than in there home country ........ why choose the UK?

They have no right to take the action that they are taking, they are not wanted by the vast majority of the British people, that is a fact, like it or not ............. they are not welcome in the UK no matter what happens to them on their journey to get here ..............the UK is a democracy and the people have decided
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Thats my point of a later post, most of them do.
 
jakeblu said:
Also access to benefits and housing is easier in france than the UK.
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I live in France and have for some time ........ have you?

we are not talking about asylum seekers ....... what have they got to do with the mass of what is happening in Calais

Genuine asylum seekers have nothing to fear in either country
 
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BillN_33 said:
I live in France and have for some time ........ have you?

we are not talking about asylum seekers ....... what have they got to do with the mass of what is happening in Calais

Genuine asylum seekers have nothing to fear in either country
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So, its alright for you to comment on UK matters, despite living in France, but I can't comment on french ones?

I don't need to live in France to know that they accommodate more asylum seekers than we do

http://www.theguardian.com/world/da...-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers
 
jakeblu said:
So, its alright for you to comment on UK matters, despite living in France, but I can't comment on french ones?

I don't need to live in France to know that they accommodate more asylum seekers than we do

http://www.theguardian.com/world/da...-eu-countries-receive-the-most-asylum-seekers
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I am not talking about asylum seekers ....... are you saying that all the people in Calais are asylum seekers?

As I said "genuine asylum seekers have nothing to fear in either country"

I can comment of both systems as I have lived and "live" in both countries and am aware of what the French think .......... I have not met anyone who wants them in France ....... maybe there are but I have not spoken to any
 
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onomatopoeia said:
What I can't understand is why here and not France (similar population, much greater area so much more open space, and better food) where they already are, or Germany (similar population, much more space and the economic powerhouse of Europe), or the scandanavian countries.
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More immigrants move to Germany than the Uk. France is in 3rd.
Germany reported the largest number of immigrants (692.7 thousand) in 2013, followed by the United Kingdom (526.0 thousand), France (332.6 thousand), Italy (307.5 thousand) and Spain (280.8 thousand). Spain reported the highest number of emigrants in 2013 (532.3 thousand), followed by the United Kingdom (316.9 thousand), France (300.8 thousand), Poland (276.4 thousand) and Germany (259.3 thousand). A total of 16 of the EU Member States reported more immigration than emigration in 2013, but in Bulgaria, Ireland, Greece, Spain, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland, Portugal, Romania and the three Baltic Member States, emigrants outnumbered immigrants.
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http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...p/Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics
 
Llamaman said:
More immigrants move to Germany than the Uk. France is in 3rd.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...p/Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics
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What type of immigrants are being discussed, the type that are sitting in Calais, I don't think so?

I can talk to quite a few "immigrants" 5 mins from my door, they are Portuguese, registered, go back to Portugal for the winter and then come back when they are needed in the vines

but you can argue over stats for ever and a day
 
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Paul W. H said:
Any migrant coming from Afghanistan or Iraq firstly has to get to Turkey and then travel (quickest route assumed) through Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium and finally France. All these other countries must share some responsibility !

I am beginning to believe that there is a "Mr Big" / "Organised Crime" involved here when you look at the journeys some of the migrants are taking with little or no money.
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I thought that the organised crime/people smuggling was reasonably well known.

Its fair to say that many of those countries listed have far more immigrants then we do. Turkey has some 1,000,000 Syrians at present, if you believe the news over here its cost upwards of $1bn as well. Germany has over 5 times the number of asylum seekers we do. France roughly 3 times the number.

I agree all countries must share some responsibility but I think many of the reasons for the attitude towards people heading to the uk, and the somewhat lax attitude to stopping them lies in countries along the route who think the same way about their immigrants and see they are already doing lots. A sensible EU wide policy, is probably the only way, with all countries taking their share. Including us as well
 
I was in Kent this morning, and no one contacted me :(


Speaking from a trade mission in Vietnam, Mr Cameron said the situation in Calais was "very concerning" and that Theresa May will chair the Cobra meeting in his absence.
 
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