C&C. Got worse?

TinaC said:
I've seen you throw a tizzy as no one commented within three hours of posting so I'll admit to not being in a hurry as the pace of comment is apparently more important to you.
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I remember that. That pic has been entered into kerso's Winter pic competition.
 
Roguet said:
I must admit, i'm also put off posting pictures due to the lack of comments and just think why bother. I thought I would give it another go the other day and posted in people and portraits, which at last check had around 120 views and only 1 comment before it fell off the bottom of the page.

To be honest it's a useful part of this forum to get other peoples views and feedback on a picture good or bad and is a great way to learn and improve. It is a shame that this side is not working so well at the moment :(
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I think the forum is such a busy place now with many, many more member then even when I joined that a lot of pictures get posted. I checked earlier and one I commented on at 11am this morning was the 18th post down on a page of 25 90 mins later. Sometimes things get missed, or it's natural to have a look at why a photo/post has so many replies that you forget about others.
 
Maybe with the 'New Post' menu option we need a 'photo's posted not C&C'd yet'
 
I couldn't give a monkey's how experienced the commentator is; they have eyes, they have an opinion (hopefully) so speak up I say, providing you give a bit of depth to your comment - nice pic doesn't cut it with me...

I am not a transport/motorsport shooter but I enjoy looking at and commenting on shots in that section but have noticed there are more and more posts that are either 'nice pic' or just saying how nice the car is; that's a wasted post IMO. If you want to talk cars (or whatever) then go to a forum that deals with love-ins of that kind.

End of sermon :)
 
not everybody wants or can give C&C. but really so what if its had no comments does the ego really need a bit of stroking.


FlyTVR said:
I'm far from the longest running TP member, but it seems to me that the number of members willing to provide C&C has fallen massively recently.

My partner posted an image today, it's had 500 (ish) views and ZERO comments. Now fair enough, maybe the image is simply crap, but surely a simple "Sorry, don't like because of ABC" would be inline?

Is it my imagination? Your thoughts appreciated....
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There is also the question of lack of a response from the OP when one comments.
 
POAH said:
not everybody wants or can give C&C. but really so what if its had no comments does the ego really need a bit of stroking.
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But the whole reason for posting an image with a CC tag is so you do get comments, and hopefully comments that can help you learn.
 
I tend to only comment on things that are either:

1) Impressive, something I genuinely like or is a technique I'd like to find out more about for my own use. Likely as not, the subject has to appeal too... or at least not bore me.

2) When I can clearly identify something which could improve the shot
 
POAH said:
not everybody wants or can give C&C. but really so what if its had no comments does the ego really need a bit of stroking.
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Yes.

By the way I really like the way you wrote that. Missing some capital letters but I'm really getting the feeling you put into that piece.

;)
 
POAH said:
not everybody wants or can give C&C. but really so what if its had no comments does the ego really need a bit of stroking.
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While I would love to have someone post "amazing photo, nothing else to add" that won't be happening any time soon.

But for me to get to that level I need feedback, I need to know where I am messing up and what I am doing well. For most of us its the same! There are a few people on here that only post to get their egos stroked, and they also get lots of posts. Perhaps people just find it easier to suck up than to put something down? :shrug: If you do post something critical about their work, you are simply ignored while all of the positive posts are quoted and thanked. I simply refuse to post on these now!

I am sure many of us would rather have "you need to improve X, Y & Z" than have nothing at all :)

desantnik said:
Likely as not, the subject has to appeal too... or at least not bore me.
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Surely you wouldn't be in the sports section, portraits or wildlife sections for example if the subjects didn't appeal slightly :p
 
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Or if we are honest, could it be that we all post photos in the hope that we receive some ego stroking. Perhaps if posters stated what they think is wrong or some comment to guide what it is they are after.
 
I've not been here long, but feel the need to reply to this thread...

I know the reason I post pics is to get feedback of where i'm going wrong. I need to know this, so I can improve what i'm doing, I know my shots are nowhere near the standard of others on here, but without peoples criticism, how am I meant to improve?

I don't mind if people don't post on mine (although it is appreciated when they do), I just assume that, as I expected, they're crap photos, which is fair enough, and even that spurs me on to improve.

I'm by no means good enough to give criticism, but I will comment when I feel I need to, wether it be good or bad, and certainly isn't to get people to comment on mine to "stroke my ego".

Certain members seem to go out of their way to offer crit, which is great IMHO, and some of it has helped me loads already.
 
Byker28i said:
Maybe with the 'New Post' menu option we need a 'photo's posted not C&C'd yet'
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There are two options now..

The Unanswered Posts search and New Critique search.

Learn your TP menus!! :p :D
 
POAH said:
not everybody wants or can give C&C. but really so what if its had no comments does the ego really need a bit of stroking.
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If the members don't want any C&C on there photo then post it in the Photos for Pleasure section that is why it was introduced.

Myself i always welcome any C&C on my photos, how else am i going to find out where i need to improve.
 
The whole prefix thing is annoying as why put things up if you don't want crit. Too many photos appear and therefore they get missed, and there are a lot of photos that are my grandkids picture, C&C wanted, I feel harsh tearing into images like that.

The amount of grief some people on here have had due to comments means that many (myself included) don't bother any more and there are simply too many images being posted to get crit on all of them..

I think that any dummy spitting should get a 2 week ban by mods, and I also think that unless it is in photos for pleasure then you should expect crit on any image you post. I think this kind of action would encourage people to think more about what they post therefore reducing the amount of stuff being posted willy nilly, and also stop any dummy spitting by those who just want an ego stroke.


That is the problem there are a lot of people who do not want to hear the nagative.
 
this is an argument that comes up time and time again.

ANYONE can offer an opinion on a picture, it us subjective, so whats good for me, might not be for you. If you say why, it helps to build an understanding. What makes an image good to you? what doesnt?

We have a New Posts menu item, have a look at it...

Dont 'not comment' on images because no-one comments on yours, thats a vicious circle that leads to threads like this.

Try and be thoughtful in your comments, saying 'its crap' will lead to me or one of the other mods carrying out CT's suggestion.

Instead of spending 10 mins reading this thread, getting on high horses and being negative, go and comment on some pictures.
 
i'm new to the forum but i've both commented on and posted pics, now my comments being a newbie don't exactly offer much advice, more appreciation.

you are right in saying there isn't alot of commenting going on in some of the sections but on the other hand some of the comments i've had have been really, really great.

one of the best forums i've used i have to say.
 
i post pictures on the people and portraits section fairly regularly and i always try to return the favour. i've got some really useful pointers in the past so do try to pass on what i've learned from those and myself when i can.
 
A thread like this seems to come up on every forum every now again, always about c&c. In my opinion I think its rather good on this forum as I have got some decent c&c on my latest threads.

footman said:
I've decided to stop putting up shots in the film forum because I don't get any comments whatsoever.
Even if they are dire (as some/all probably are) I would even appreciate a "don't post shots until you're better" type comment as I could build on that.
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I agree with CT, the "show us your film.." thread is more about posting images for other people to look at not c&c which is why its probably so popular..
 
specialman said:
But the whole reason for posting an image with a CC tag is so you do get comments, and hopefully comments that can help you learn.
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or to get people to look and comment without actually caring about C&C. I'm all for C&C but it also helps if people ask more specific questions about an image.
 
Byker28i said:
Yes.

By the way I really like the way you wrote that. Missing some capital letters but I'm really getting the feeling you put into that piece.

;)
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or the fact I wrote it on my iphone and could not be arsed with capitals or the fact I can't be arsed with capitals in the first place
 
I sometimes don't offer any crit either because the shot is so good the poster is obviously very talented, and I don't feel I know enough to give crit. Other times I will post with a comment like "nice set" or "fab shots", which sometimes, I know, not very helpful!
Sometimes, when a pic has been posted, I think its fab, and others have been extra critical. When this happens, I feel relieved I never said how fab I thought it was, only to have something posted saying "this is wrong" " that's wrong".

I am gradually learning that everyone's taste is different, and so I will pluck up the courage to offer my thoughts to those who have taken the time to ask for crit, as I often do.
 
POAH said:
or to get people to look and comment without actually caring about C&C. I'm all for C&C but it also helps if people ask more specific questions about an image.
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Fair point - posting a pic with a leading question (such as "do you think the lighting/processing/whatever works and if not, any recommendations?") can help to 'drive' constructive crit. This in turn might then help the viewer offer specific crit/help/advice....
 
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artyman said:
Or on commenting is it better to be silent and thought a fool, or to speak and remove any possible doubt. :D
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This is mainly a place of learning, so no matter what is said, no one will think of anyone as a fool :)
 
I dont post my photos often due to the lack of comments. It's a waste of my time.
 
Andyvalver said:
I dont post my photos often due to the lack of comments. It's a waste of my time.
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Sadly, I am totally in this boat, as well as feeling very disheartened about critting in general. I spent a lot of time in unanswered posts, looking at the stuff that had sat there for a few days and offering comments as to what could be differently perhaps, or what the photographger could have thought about when taking the shot. So often, there was no aknowledgment from the OP, the height of rudeness I think, especially as I had taken some time to look at the pic and make suggestions.

Then there are people who just post a picture, with no info about the shot. I don't mean exif, even that would be a start, but what they wanted to achieve with the shot, how they think it went etc. Well, if people can not be bothered to write ANYTHING about their picture, why they took it etc, then why should I spend considerable time looking at the pic and saying constructive stuff about it. I think that a photo in a post on it's own is as rude as ignoring the comments themselves.

Due to these things I am having a little break from critting pics as I find myself getting annoyed and that doesn't help anyone. I know it's a vicious circle, I know I don't have the answers. These threads just make me go :bang::bang::bang: I can't even think how these threads must made the mods feel, who are constantly thinking how they can get over this issue.

Annoyed now that I've even written a reply, I've sat on my hands since seeing this thread as I feel very passionately about it
 
swag72 said:
Then there are people who just post a picture, with no info about the shot. I don't mean exif, even that would be a start, but what they wanted to achieve with the shot, how they think it went etc. Well, if people can not be bothered to write ANYTHING about their picture, why they took it etc, then why should I spend considerable time looking at the pic and saying constructive stuff about it. I think that a photo in a post on it's own is as rude as ignoring the comments themselves.
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A picture paints a thousand words, not every photo needs an explanation and many speak for themselves :)

Due to these things I am having a little break from critting pics as I find myself getting annoyed and that doesn't help anyone. I know it's a vicious circle, I know I don't have the answers. These threads just make me go :bang::bang::bang: I can't even think how these threads must made the mods feel, who are constantly thinking how they can get over this issue.

Annoyed now that I've even written a reply, I've sat on my hands since seeing this thread as I feel very passionately about it
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I really don't see the issue with these threads at all, if anything, it raises awareness of the issue so it can be addressed. In fact, I've just spent 30 mins going through people and portraits commenting on photos with few responses. Don't stop replying to everyone just because a few people don't respond to your comments, just avoid them in future and comment on those of us that do take notice of what people write :D

Yours, and everyone's input is valued, maybe not by everyone, but then, you can never please everyone :)
 
I've mentioned in another thread that C+C on this forum is considerably lacking - particularly in people and portraits.

I mentioned in the other thread that I posted one image on here, got a couple of "nice shot" comments but that was about it. Posted the same shot on another forum and get some really detailed crit with excellent advice, even diagrams of soft box positions etc. TP is much much busieer that the other forum i used so why get less crit from more users?
 
Cris_L said:
I mentioned in the other thread that I posted one image on here, got a couple of "nice shot" comments but that was about it. Posted the same shot on another forum and get some really detailed crit with excellent advice, even diagrams of soft box positions etc. TP is much much busieer that the other forum i used so why get less crit from more users?
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Yes, it used to be less busy here, less throughput which means we all only had one or two new photos to look at each day, so were more likely to have the time to talk about them in detail.

If you want to see that same effect ultra-amplified, take a look at Flickr... thats a billion times bigger and its virtually impossible to get anything sensible out of it.

Although to be honest, whilst its a little disheartening, really moaning that someone hasn't posted on your thread is a bit, errm, crap too really.
 
Harvey_nikon said:
I really don't see the issue with these threads at all, if anything, it raises awareness of the issue so it can be addressed. In fact, I've just spent 30 mins going through people and portraits commenting on photos with few responses.......
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I think that it is a massive issue with TP if it takes threads like this to get people critting. It's part of what we should be onvolved in on a regular basis. All these threads seem to do is prick at peoples conscience for a few days and get rid of a backlog in unanswered posts.

If it takes a read of a thread like this to spur me into action, then in my opinion, that doesn't make me a very 'consistent' member.
 
I can see where Sara is coming from in all honesty. We've had numerous threads on this subject and whilst it's definitely an issue I don't see anything changing any time soon. No-one loves helping people and seeing them make progress more than me, but when you end up with a post count like mine, you have to ask yourself just how much of your life you want to give over to it.

There are some fantastic people here who appreciate every bit of help they get and it's a pleasure to help them. There are others as Sara said who don't even have the good manners to acknowledge the help or crit they're given, then occasionally the ones who respond by throwing a strop. You need to be some sort of saint not to ask yourself why you're bothering.
 
as others have said i dont realy post C&C as im relaitivly new and dont think i know enough to coment properly.
i see pics posted that i real like but others just rip them apart,saying this and thats wrong,where as i would have been happy if i had taken that picture myself.
im all for C&C if its helping improve your photography,but i see posts that just seem to nit pick at the littles things
 
swag72 said:
I think that it is a massive issue with TP if it takes threads like this to get people critting. It's part of what we should be onvolved in on a regular basis. All these threads seem to do is prick at peoples conscience for a few days and get rid of a backlog in unanswered posts.

If it takes a read of a thread like this to spur me into action, then in my opinion, that doesn't make me a very 'consistent' member.
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It's not a massive issue at all. Due to the massive numbers of people on here it's very easy to think that someone more experienced will comment. This thread has simply pointed out that that isn't happening and everyone should be doing it. We've already had several new members voice their opinions that that don't feel any crit from them is worth posting, something that we have told them is silly and they should post anyway.

That alone gets more people commenting.

Personally, I am not one for sticking my head in the sand when it comes to a problem someone as raised, and that is all this has done. It has raised an issue and by doing so will make people realise that its good to comment. It may spur a few on for a few days, for for others it could be the start of a habit forming change :)

The only issue here is the people coming in and commenting that this thread is pointless.


CT said:
There are some fantastic people here who appreciate every bit of help they get and it's a pleasure to help them. There are others as Sara said who don't even have the good manners to acknowledge the help or crit they're given, then occasionally the ones who respond by throwing a strop. You need to be some sort of saint not to ask yourself why you're bothering.
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And as I said, if people get defensive or do not respond to your comments you simply do not post on their photos again. No reason to punish everyone for the sake of a few ungrateful so and so's :)

pmac said:
as others have said i dont realy post C&C as im relaitivly new and dont think i know enough to coment properly.
i see pics posted that i real like but others just rip them apart,saying this and thats wrong,where as i would have been happy if i had taken that picture myself.
im all for C&C if its helping improve your photography,but i see posts that just seem to nit pick at the littles things
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It doesn't matter what others say, voice your opinions :) It's subjective after all. I myself have seen a photo that others have loved, and I've gone against 20 other posts and said I didn't like it and why. It seemed to give others the confidence to also say they didn't like it.

Nit picking is generally done on photos that are good, because the only thing wrong with them is tiny little things, its the only way to improve :)
 
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TP still stands head and shoulders above any other photo forum out there. It's modded with the right amount of firmness and good humour and for the most part we take our photography seriously while not being averse to a good laugh.

If anything causes the death of TP as we know it (Jim) it will be complacancy on all our parts. Don't moan you're not getting a response to your image posts if you're not making a contribution elsewhere yoiurself. Get involved - you'll only get out what you put in. It's not down to just a few people to make the effort - TP is far too big for that now.

Soapbox away - off to get the gear ready for tomorrow. ;)
 
CT said:
Don't moan you're not getting a response to your image posts if you're not making a contribution elsewhere yoiurself. Get involved - you'll only get out what you put in. It's not down to just a few people to make the effort - TP is far too big for that now.
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Word.
 
Do you think that the term C&C may be at fault here?

Is it 'Comments and Criticism' or 'Comments and Critique' (I prefer the latter).

Many will be averse to criticising anothers efforts whereas comments are easily and readily made.

Criticising is a form of 'put down'.

Critique, on the other hand requires some form of expertise.

Dictionary Def is -

Critique is an accepted and established process of orderly scholarly and public debate. In the fine arts and the humanities, and especially in writing, critique is influenced by the scientific method of analysis. Critique is based upon an informed opinion, and never upon personal opinion. Informed opinion is accepted as being technical knowledge, personal or professional experience, or specified training.
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Perhaps a 'What is your honest opinion' thread would be better.

Then folk, newbies especially, might be more inclined to make comments which would be just as helpful to the Tog and could be used to form a fair critique overall.
 
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