Bye, bye Honda?

Didn't Swindon vote leave?

Seems inevitable especially with the new Japan/EU trade agreement in place. Might as well build them in Japan and ship them tariff free to the EU.
 
Thing is, it's not just Honda. There's a HUGE supply chain around it because they work a 'just in time' policy, so they don't hold many parts, they require suppliers to be close

Speaking at a summit staged by UK car industry group SMMT, Mr Howells said: ““We have deliveries of 2m components every day, arriving on 350 lorries.
“We have just one hour of supply of parts at the side of the line, and half a day in local warehouses.
“From that description of the flow of goods you can see how new customs rules would harm our ability to produce cars.”
 
Byker28i said:
Thing is, it's not just Honda. There's a HUGE supply chain around it because they work a 'just in time' policy, so they don't hold many parts, they require suppliers to be close

Speaking at a summit staged by UK car industry group SMMT, Mr Howells said: ““We have deliveries of 2m components every day, arriving on 350 lorries.
“We have just one hour of supply of parts at the side of the line, and half a day in local warehouses.
“From that description of the flow of goods you can see how new customs rules would harm our ability to produce cars.”
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Sadly a predictable move given the lack of clarity not only in a months time, but what might happen at the end of the transition period.
 
It really sucks to see you leaving. Ive done quite some buying in english stores but not so much when youre out of the EU.
 
jakeblu said:
Didn't Swindon vote leave?

Seems inevitable especially with the new Japan/EU trade agreement in place. Might as well build them in Japan and ship them tariff free to the EU.
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According to the BBC it is more around other factors than Brexit. Yes, you can ignore the no-deal aspect (although if it was that why not wait until we have no deal then announce it), and more on general business "Honda are clear this is based on global trends and not Brexit, as all European market production will consolidate in Japan in 2021." China was mentioned as a factor and the fact they are moving this to Japan and not an EU country would support that.
 
cambsno said:
According to the BBC it is more around other factors than Brexit. Yes, you can ignore the no-deal aspect (although if it was that why not wait until we have no deal then announce it), and more on general business "Honda are clear this is based on global trends and not Brexit, as all European market production will consolidate in Japan in 2021." China was mentioned as a factor and the fact they are moving this to Japan and not an EU country would support that.
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Did that statement come from Honda though? Last I saw, it was only the Brexit supporting Swindon North MP who had stated that, and Honda are yet to make an official statement?
 
cambsno said:
According to the BBC it is more around other factors than Brexit. Yes, you can ignore the no-deal aspect (although if it was that why not wait until we have no deal then announce it), and more on general business "Honda are clear this is based on global trends and not Brexit, as all European market production will consolidate in Japan in 2021." China was mentioned as a factor and the fact they are moving this to Japan and not an EU country would support that.
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I think we must be reading a different BBC

Screenshot 2019-02-18 at 16.20.01.png
 
The car market is going to be interesting. EU manufacturers are obliged to cut average emissions on their new car fleets. Britain is leaving the scheme and the Brits buy small, efficient cars. EU manufacturers won't be able to offset their sporty cars sold elsewhere with British sales. The price of bigger cars in Europe may go up if the manufacturers get fined. I bet Porsche is annoyed.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Did that statement come from Honda though? Last I saw, it was only the Brexit supporting Swindon North MP who had stated that, and Honda are yet to make an official statement?
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he is a t***. I think that everytime I meet him

Honda statement expected tomorrow. As expected it's headline news locally
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/17441243.unite-reacts-to-honda-closure-news/
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/17440964.honda-expected-to-close-swindon-factory-in-2022/
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk...comment-on-news-the-swindon-plant-will-close/
 
doggel said:
:LOL:
:withstupid:
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Depends how you mean 'Great'.

I know people who are deluded and think once Bexit is over UK based companies will pull production back to the UK and we will become the great engineering country of yesteryear.
It's not going happen, they'll still have their products produced in China as the labour is cheaper, it's simple business economics, lower production cost = more profit
 
Car sales are dropping, some smaller/newer marques are improving their share so established manufacturers are losing sales, if Honda expect to have spare production capacity in Japan I would expect them to keep jobs at home or elsewhere else (China?) where labour costs are lower.
 
mj4456 said:
Car sales are dropping, some smaller/newer marques are improving their share so established manufacturers are losing sales, if Honda expect to have spare production capacity in Japan I would expect them to keep jobs at home or elsewhere else (China?) where labour costs are lower.
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90% of what is produced at the Swindon plant goes to the EU, there's about to be a tariff on that 90%. I'd be amazed if that wasn't the driving factor being that they can now move it back to Japan and not have any tariffs. It was only here to give them a tariff-free entry into the EU market. If they moved to China they'd still be on the wrong side of the tariffs.
 
When the official reason comes out, I'm sure there'll be at least a passing mention of Brexit same as Nissan. They wouldn't want to be seen deserting the sinking ship. Honda and Nissan will still want to sell their cars to us in the future. I feel pretty confident that if we'd have voted remain, neither of those announcements would have been made.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
90% of what is produced at the Swindon plant goes to the EU, there's about to be a tariff on that 90%. I'd be amazed if that wasn't the driving factor being that they can now move it back to Japan and not have any tariffs. It was only here to give them a tariff-free entry into the EU market. If they moved to China they'd still be on the wrong side of the tariffs.
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So why not announce it before now? Or even, for the sake of a month or two, leave it till we know what’s happening. Not due to leave fir japan for 2-3 years so a couple of months would make no difference, what if we end up with another referendum or even mays deal with no tariffs?

The cynical part of me makes me think that Brexit is better PR wise than just moving to Japan.
 
cambsno said:
So why not announce it before now? Or even, for the sake of a month or two, leave it till we know what’s happening. Not due to leave fir japan for 2-3 years so a couple of months would make no difference, what if we end up with another referendum or even mays deal with no tariffs?

The cynical part of me makes me think that Brexit is better PR wise than just moving to Japan.
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We appear to have annoyed Japan with our negotiating over trade deals in recent months, and we're ever closer to leaving with no deal. I think they've possibly been waiting until the last minute in the hope a customs union would be arranged. But, with that not on the horizon, and no trade deal to be agreed until the end of the transition period, we're about to enter another 2 years of uncertainty. Businesses hate uncertainty.

Combined with their new free trade deal agreement, it looks like everything's just happened at the same time. It'll probably take them the two years to re-engineer the supply network anyway.

But yes, it could also be as you say, better PR.

And the truth is, it will be for a variety of reasons, of which Brexit is a factor. Whether it's the tipping point, I doubt they'd ever publicly say either way.

Crap news for our economy either way. I've seen reports say it'll actually be 10000 jobs by the time you factor in all the jobs in the supply chain that will be lost.
 
Yes, the new EU - Japan trade deal is significant.
If worldwide demand is falling and they can bring the capacity back to Japan without tariff penalty they will do so.
They put Japan first.
Bad news though.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
90% of what is produced at the Swindon plant goes to the EU, there's about to be a tariff on that 90%. I'd be amazed if that wasn't the driving factor being that they can now move it back to Japan and not have any tariffs. It was only here to give them a tariff-free entry into the EU market. If they moved to China they'd still be on the wrong side of the tariffs.
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How do you account for their only other car manufacturing plant, near but not in the EU, which is also destined to be shut.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjAOegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1_DaeQi_Lmej9wW76MXzkI
The car market is in decline at the moment and it makes sense to retain factories, running at, or near to capacity. They have obviously decided Japan offers their best financial outcome.
 
nilagin said:
How do you account for their only other car manufacturing plant, near but not in the EU, which is also destined to be shut.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjAOegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1_DaeQi_Lmej9wW76MXzkI
The car market is in decline at the moment and it makes sense to retain factories, running at, or near to capacity. They have obviously decided Japan offers their best financial outcome.
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Can they import cars into the EU from Turkey tariff free? It seems you and the local MP are clutching at straws. With no Brexit would they close the UK plant, I doubt it? I thought I'd read recently that their sales in Europe grew last year. Even with reduced sales, it'd be cheaper to ship to Europe from the UK than from Japan. It's funny how only last year the Japanese motor industry was the jewel in the crown for British manufacturing and now they're starting to pull out, I doubt brexit is just a coincidence.
 
They only make one model at Swindon now, the Civic. So if it achieves poor sales the plant is under threat. The whole European motor industry is currently in decline.
Classic case of shutting a satellite plant and taking back home when the market declines.
 
jakeblu said:
Can they import cars into the EU from Turkey tariff free? It seems you and the local MP are clutching at straws. With no Brexit would they close the UK plant, I doubt it? I thought I'd read recently that their sales in Europe grew last year. Even with reduced sales, it'd be cheaper to ship to Europe from the UK than from Japan. It's funny how only last year the Japanese motor industry was the jewel in the crown for British manufacturing and now they're starting to pull out, I doubt brexit is just a coincidence.
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According to these figures, their European sales have been in decline for the last 11yrs. Last year's sales not really much more than half what they were of the financial breakdown when governments were introducing scrappage schemes across Europe and some car companies were having to ask for bailouts.
So no it isn't clutching at straws. A lot of car companies are having to realign their operations to become more efficient to survive the crash that quite a few manufacturers have predicted is about to happen again.
Ford are currently realigning factories and car models not just in Europe but across the world. In the UK around 450 jobs will be lost at Bridgend through voluntary redundancy and early retirements. This year, they will be downsizing their staff numbers at the Ford UK HQ in Essex. The HQ will be sold off and the remaining staff will be relocated to offices at the Dagenham Engine Plant and the Dunton Research facility. In Dunton a considerable number of agency engineers didn't get their contracts renewed over the last 12 months, plus there was recently a voluntary redundancy and early retirement program where quite a few people left at Christmas. Some of the engine production at Dagenham has been reduced to a 3 day week. Not sure if they will also have a redundancy package as well if production continues to fall.
 
Peter123 said:
They only make one model at Swindon now, the Civic. So if it achieves poor sales the plant is under threat. The whole European motor industry is currently in decline.
Classic case of shutting a satellite plant and taking back home when the market declines.
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They sold more civics in Europe year than the year before though.

There'll be a combination of factors in the decision to move though, doubt it was made lightly.
 
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nilagin said:
The increase was only been by a relatively small amount. The sales are still a lot less than they were 10-11yrs prior to that.
http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/honda/honda-civic/
For a factory capable of producing over 100k cars a year, 43k just isn't cost effective. If they have similar under capacity in Japanese factories, it makes sense to move production to Japan.
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Except it will cost them considerably more to ship them from Japan to the EU than it would from the UK to the EU.
 
jakeblu said:
Except it will cost them considerably more to ship them from Japan to the EU than it would from the UK to the EU.
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The extra cost of shipping would be easily offset by not having to operate a factory which isn't running at half It's capacity.
 
Well that settles that then :)

Screenshot 2019-02-19 at 08.34.44.png

nilagin said:
The extra cost of shipping would be easily offset by not having to operate a factory which isn't running at half It's capacity.
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From the same article

Screenshot 2019-02-19 at 08.36.27.png
 
jakeblu said:
When the official reason comes out, I'm sure there'll be at least a passing mention of Brexit same as Nissan. They wouldn't want to be seen deserting the sinking ship. Honda and Nissan will still want to sell their cars to us in the future. I feel pretty confident that if we'd have voted remain, neither of those announcements would have been made.
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Well, according to the Honda statement, this has nothing to do with Brexit
 
It certainly is very sad news and it will be devastating for countless families. For a while now I've felt that Honda has lost it's way in the UK over the last decade, which is a shame because they are capable of such great things. They should have brought the Acura division over here and offered more powerful engines for those who want the choice.

I've had many Honda cars over the years and suffered the insane buzzing and rattling cabins which remove any chance of it feeling like a premium car, despite the reasonably high price tags, especially for used ones. The underwhelming performance and insane delays for routine parts means that my current one is the final straw and last week I made the decision to get shot of it. Perhaps ironic that it coincides with this news.

I suppose they have at least given the workforce some time to make alternative plans, although I can't see their being many opportunities what with the way the car industry seems to be heading at the moment. Does anyone know if the Government will be providing any support?
 
gman said:
It certainly is very sad news and it will be devastating for countless families. For a while now I've felt that Honda has lost it's way in the UK over the last decade, which is a shame because they are capable of such great things. They should have brought the Acura division over here and offered more powerful engines for those who want the choice.

I've had many Honda cars over the years and suffered the insane buzzing and rattling cabins which remove any chance of it feeling like a premium car, despite the reasonably high price tags, especially for used ones. The underwhelming performance and insane delays for routine parts means that my current one is the final straw and last week I made the decision to get shot of it. Perhaps ironic that it coincides with this news.

I suppose they have at least given the workforce some time to make alternative plans, although I can't see their being many opportunities what with the way the car industry seems to be heading at the moment. Does anyone know if the Government will be providing any support?
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It would be nice if Honda provided some sort of assistance to the employees, it may not even be basic redundancy terms.
When Ford closed down the Southampton Transit plant and the Dagenham Stamping plant where I worked, they offered an enhanced package. Ok ours was a case of voluntary redundancy and a promise of jobs for anyone not wishing to leave, but they still needed most people to take the offer. But Ford also provided assistance for any retraining people may require to be able to do other jobs and also invited other companies in for job fares and put up notice boards advertising jobs in and around the area.
The Dagenham employees were more fortunate we had two other Ford locations to move to for those wishing to stay, most transferred to the engine plant down the road, whilst around 200 of us got jobs at Dunton and our early retirement side of the package went to employees at these sites to make room for us. Ford also offered relocation assistance for those wishing to move further afield and one of my colleagues took that up and moved to the engine plant in Bridgend.
Obviously nothing similar to the latter can be offered to the Honda workforce, but it will certainly make things easier. I would imagine the vast majority of the workforce who work on the production lines wouldn't be classed as skilled labour.
 
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