Buying from Panamoz

digital

digital

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I've had it confirmed that they will accept part payment by credit card and the balance by bank transfer with the latter attracting the 5% discount. Put a minimal amount on your credit card and the whole transaction gets Section 75 protection as long as the total bill comes to more than £100 and less than £30000.
 
Thanks for that - while I cannot afford to buy anything yet I am sure it will help many get over that last hurdle of buying via them !
 
Don't panamoz give forum members 5% discount anyway, so put it all on the card?
 
rjbell said:
Don't panamoz give forum members 5% discount anyway, so put it all on the card?
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5% only applies to bank transfer so if you pay in full by cc you won't get it.
 
-Rob- said:
What happens if you ordered £1,000 worth of kit from Panamoz. Pay £100 on credit card and the rest by bank transfer to get the 5% discount on the £900. Surely the credit card would only cover you for £100 not the full £1,000???
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Under Section 75, the credit card covers you for the whole amount. That's the reason for using it and the reason I asked them. You don't even need to put as much as £100 on the card to be able to get the protection.

Always use your credit card for your purchases, Section 75 is invaluable. I even put a £100 part payment on it when I bought my latest car. £29000 worth of cover for free, and I got 1% cashback on the £100 as the card has a cashback offer...
 
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Great idea for when I order my sigma 70 - 200
 
digital said:
Under Section 75, the credit card covers you for the whole amount. That's the reason for using it and the reason I asked them. You don't even need to put as much as £100 on the card to be able to get the protection.

Always use your credit card for your purchases, Section 75 is invaluable. I even put a £100 part payment on it when I bought my latest car. £29000 worth of cover for free, and I got 1% cashback on the £100 as the card has a cashback offer...
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OK, that’s good to know but what happens if you were to buy multiple items from Panamoz? Let’s say you bought a camera body and 5 lenses for £5,000 but only put £100 of it on your credit card.

Would you still be covered for all items if they were bought in a single transaction?
 
rjbell said:
Don't panamoz give forum members 5% discount anyway, so put it all on the card?
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Really? I missed that. I placed an order with Panamoz yesterday (having been impressed with the reports in here about their service). I used BACS to get a 5% discount anyway, so I'm not bothered (unless I could have got a further 5%, which I doubt) but I'm surprised I missed it - I spent a few days trawling for information before placing my order!

Things seem to be going smoothly with the order, fwiw - dispatched earlier today, and showing up on DHL's tracking already. So far, so good...
 
digital said:
Under Section 75, the credit card covers you for the whole amount. That's the reason for using it and the reason I asked them. You don't even need to put as much as £100 on the card to be able to get the protection.
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It's a good idea generally, but many internet retailers use a third party payment processing service (such as PayPal and SagePay) to handle the credit card transactions. From what I've read, in such cases the CC transaction is with the processing service, who then pay the retailer (minus a commission). Nothing at all wrong with that but I believe it means the CC transaction ends with the processing service provider, not with the retailer, so the Section 75 protection ends there too.

I may be mistaken, of course, but that's the situation as I understand it.
 
I don't know about SagePay, but you're right about PayPal. The payment has to go to the retailer direct and not through a third party.
 
digital said:
I don't know about SagePay, but you're right about PayPal. The payment has to go to the retailer direct and not through a third party.
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Then although there may still be some security for the transaction itself via SagePay (or other such services), you can probably forget any S75 benefits.
 
Hillbilly said:
Then although there may still be some security for the transaction itself via SagePay (or other such services), you can probably forget any S75 benefits.
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The vast majority of my purchases do not go through SagePay or PayPal (which I avoid anyway) so I almost always get the Section 75 protection. I can't remember when I last didn't. My advice to use a credit card to pay for at least part of a purchase still stands.
 
digital said:
The vast majority of my purchases do not go through SagePay or PayPal (which I avoid anyway) so I almost always get the Section 75 protection. I can't remember when I last didn't. My advice to use a credit card to pay for at least part of a purchase still stands.
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Yes, I nearly always use credit cards for purchases too and I agree completely with your reasoning in general.

This thread is "Buying from Panamoz" though. As they use SagePay, it would seem that S75 protection will not apply to the purchase. In that case, the strategy of putting a minimal amount on credit card and paying the balance via BACS is seriously flawed.
 
All online card purchases will go through a payment service provider, whether that be sagepay, secure trading, HSBC, Barclays, Elevon etc. you are still covered by section 75.

The psp is just the engine in the middle that processes the payment between the website and the merchant account.

PayPal, you will be covered if you make a purchase via PayPal and the funds are drawn directly from your cc. Where you are not covered is when you top up your PayPal account and then purchase with a PayPal balance.
 
ecoleman said:
Hmmm, that person was definitely misinformed or got the wrong end of the stick.
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Consumer Direct ought to know what they're talking about, but I'm sure their staff are fallible like everyone else. It does appear to have been backed up and explained in more detail by the Principal Trading Standards Officer though.
 
In answer to a couple of questions:
- if the transaction goes through SagePay or PayPal (assuming SagePay works in the same way as PayPal: I've never knowingly had a payment go through them so I don't know), there is no Section 75 cover. So, if Panamoz do use SagePay (I've not bought from them, yet) my idea of using a credit card for part of the payment looks like it isn't going to provide the protection I was hoping for.

- if you buy multiple items on a credit card in one transaction (and not through a third party) then each item has Section 75 protection as long as that individual item costs £100 or more. Paying for a camera at £500, a lens at £100 and a bag at £99.99 on a credit card in one transaction would leave the camera and lens with Section 75 protection and the bag without.

Please note: I am not a financial adviser and the above is my understanding of the situation. If you want to be absolutely sure, get professional advice!
 
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IIRC unless you take up the 5% BT offer then payments are made to Panamoz by Paypal transaction, using whatever payment means you setup, e.g. credit card, debit card, bank DD.
I have had at least one 'bad' transaction where funds were paid through Paypal for goods (not eBay or Panamoz) and my bank successfully processed a chargeback ... again FWIW I have never failed to get an eBay dispute settled in my favour by Paypal.
So for me Paypal is far more secure than leaving my card details all over the Internet :shrug:
 
gramps said:
IIRC unless you take up the 5% BT offer then payments are made to Panamoz by Paypal transaction
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Yes, you're quite right - I think I must have confused them with HDEW, who use SagePay. My mistake.

So for me Paypal is far more secure than leaving my card details all over the Internet :shrug:
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Fair enough. This thread is primarily about obtaining CCA S75 protection though. That may not apply when going down that route, although ecoleman points out that it may depend on circumstances. It all seems a bit grey and unsatisfactory.
 
digital said:
if Panamoz do use SagePay
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My mistake - it's HDEW who use SagePay. As gramps points out, Panamoz use PayPal.

my idea of using a credit card for part of the payment looks like it isn't going to provide the protection I was hoping for
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Well, ecoleman indicates that it might do. If it does, it's an excellent suggestion. My reason for poking my nose into this thread is that it struck me that if it doesn't then you could be unsuspectingly exposing yourself to more risk rather than less.

(I've not bought from them, yet)
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I placed my first order with them late on Monday, and it's currently with DHL in Hong Kong. Will report back.

If you want to be absolutely sure, get professional advice!
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... and it still won't necessarily be right!
 
Hillbilly said:
My reason for poking my nose into this thread is that it struck me that if it doesn't then you could be unsuspectingly exposing yourself to more risk rather than less.
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I don't see how using a credit card would lead to more risk rather than less. At the worst it would have no effect, but with the (outside?) chance of a chargeback.
 
digital said:
I don't see how using a credit card would lead to more risk rather than less. At the worst it would have no effect, but with the (outside?) chance of a chargeback.
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I put that rather badly. What I meant was that by putting the bulk through BACS and a small amount on their credit card, people might be exposing the bulk of the payment to more risk than they expected if CCA protection doesn't apply (because the CC payment was via PayPal). In that case, had they instead put the whole payment on the credit card, it would at least have had whatever safeguards PayPal provide even though CCA doesn't apply.

But then no 5% discount, of course. You pays yer money, you takes yer choice - literally, in this case.
 
If only I could decide what I wanted I would place an order

Looking at 60D/650D with 18-135 STM and 100-400L but then keep going back to 70-200L F4 or 300L F4

Mainly for holiday use ie zoos airshows and the like.
 
darkman said:
If only I could decide what I wanted I would place an order

Looking at 60D/650D with 18-135 STM
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Well, their prices seem to have fallen a bit further in the last day or so, presumably because of exchange rate fluctuations. At the current price, if you were add a 32GB USM-1 SDHC card and upgrade the 1-year standard warranty to a replacement type, then the 5% discount for paying by BACS would cover those and all but about 34p of the delivery charge too.

Don't want to wave temptation in anyone's face though ;)
 
Guys/gals, please let me clarify this payment processor concern.

I am explaining this as an online merchant who has been in the ecommerce business for 5 years now. I also do a fair bit of ecommerce development for others.

A payment service provider is used by the majority of online stores all over the world. Only the very large companies could afford the infrastructure and PCI compliance costs to process their own payments. The highest level of PCI compliance required would cost tens of thousands of pounds per year alone.

There are many PSP's around. Sagepay owned by Sage, Elevon owned by Santander, HSBC and Barclays owned by themselves, Secure Trading who is privately owned like sagepay and a few others. These companies basically provide the infrastructure between the merchant and the bank. They receive the card details and pass them on to the relevant card issuer who then sends back an authorisation code or decline code back to the payment provider. They also pass the information to the 3d secure servers and get a reply back from them. That information is then passed back to the merchant where the transaction is either outright declined by the bank or handled depending on the merchants security rules. Every night the PSP consolidates all the payments (and refunds) and arranges for the funds to be deposited in the merchants bank account.

Also for any of this to work you need a merchant account which is not available from a PSP. These are had from your bank, a bank or streamline. So unlike PayPal the PSP never actually handles your money, they just ensure its moved to the right place at the right time.

For those of you that state you have never made a payment through sagepay are probably very wrong. sagepay is probably the largest PSP in the UK, if you do any amount of online purchasing you would more than likely have processed a payment via their servers.

You can rest assured that you are fully covered by section 75 when processing your payment via any of these services.

Also remember that many of the card machines in the shops on the high street are also dealt with via a payment processor.
 
Thanks for that. I've amended my post #21 to make it a little more accurate!
 
-Rob- said:
What happens if you ordered £1,000 worth of kit from Panamoz. Pay £100 on credit card and the rest by bank transfer to get the 5% discount on the £900. Surely the credit card would only cover you for £100 not the full £1,000???
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yes. Exactly.

Why would "they" be liable for something they have not purchased.
 
Section 75 makes the credit card company as liable for the entire purchase as the retailer. They have supplied credit in connection with the purchase.
 
ok.. would love to see some case law on that... as really cannot see them bieing too bothered if say you bought 10k for a kitchen or anything, £50 on the plastic and £9950 on anything else...

why should they be liable?

It means they have a responsibility to cove their part of the cost... not pay 50p and then put the rest on plastic.. because they will settle for the full amount.
 
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Lynton said:
ok.. would love to see some case law on that... as really cannot see them bieing too bothered if say you bought 10k for a kitchen or anything, £50 on the plastic and £9950 on anything else...

why should they be liable?

It means they have a responsibility to cove their part of the cost... not pay 50p and then put the rest on plastic.. because they will settle for the full amount.
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It is such a one sided regulation but it is correct that if you spend part of a purchase on CC and the rest by other means then the CC can be held liable for the entire purchase, I was shocked by this when I worked for a CC Company but I've never seen it tested so it could be interesting to see if a person would get paid out :thinking:
 
Lynton said:
ok.. would love to see some case law on that... as really cannot see them bieing too bothered if say you bought 10k for a kitchen or anything, £50 on the plastic and £9950 on anything else...

why should they be liable?

It means they have a responsibility to cove their part of the cost... not pay 50p and then put the rest on plastic.. because they will settle for the full amount.
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They just are. Life's not fair.

Heres another one for you.
You purchase a product from my website along with say £6 for delivery. A few days later you phone me up and say you've changed your mind and want to return it. By law I have to accept that return, but not only do I have to refund the cost of the goods, but I have to refund the delivery charge as well.

The law also states I have to refund you within 30 days regardless of whether or not I have received the goods back. The law says I have to refund you and then take you to court to recover the money.

How is that fair???

We have the EU to thank for all this.
 
MWHCVT said:
That said S75 of the CCA regularly gets quoted entirely incorrectly, a CC is not infalible and will not always get your money back ;)
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I've made three Section 75 claims in the last four years and was paid out in full each time.
 
digital said:
I've made three Section 75 claims in the last four years and was paid out in full each time.
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That maybe the case but take a few years ago with all the flight cancelled because of volcanic ash, the news reported that those on credit cards will certainly get there money back :thumbs: but that was totally incorrect ;)
 
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