Budget Zoom Lens

kevinp

kevinp

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Had my Nikon D5500 for a few weeks now.
Use it mostley for dog shows indoors like Crufts ect.
I cant really get close enough with the kit lens 18/55, I'm on a really tight budget so was looking at Sigma AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DG Nikon Fit Lens.
Anyone use this lens at dog shows? and will it do the job??
Thanks Kevin
 
f4-5.6 will need reasonable light ... have you thought about an older Nikon 80-200 f2.8?
 
Not as good as the one suggested by gramps but also worth looking at the Tamron 70-300 vc.
 
What about this one Tamron 18-200mm VC ? seems to be quite cheap.
 
Generally the all in one lens are not that good/sharp across the full range.
 
On the original question of will the Sigma do the job, the answer is barely. Same answer goes for the Tamron, and being 1/3 of a stop slower at full zoom it is even less adequate. If you are taking photos in the crufts main ring, you will probably be OK because that has some pretty good lighting, but in the smaller rings you will really struggle. Even as high ISO (3200 and above) your shutter speed will be right down at or below 1/125 due to the fact both lenses are quite slow. For static shots a mixture of technique and VR might help out here, but for running shots you are likely to get motion blur.

Of the two, I would probably choose the Sigma 70-300mm if you really want a long zoom. Two reasons, firstly if is slightly faster at the long end which also means it may be a bit faster still at roughly 200mm. Secondly it will do the same job for less money.

Personally my choice would be to purchase at your budget would be a 50mm F1.8 and live with the limitations - namely you have no ability to zoom in or out. It will be suitable for a much higher range of lighting conditions rather than just the main rung at the countries biggest dog show. Also you will have a higher quality image to be able to crop down a bit due to less noise an a sharper image overall. The other option is save for a used Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 which will serve you much better.

Note: I've not been to crufts, but a quick look at some 2016 photos on flickr gave me enough information about lighting to make an assessment for you. However I do a lot of photography without flash in artificial light.
 
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Kevin - Have you not thought about the NIkon 55-300mm VR as on Ebay as it's not much more than the Tamron 18-200mm VR or cheaper used - http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=nikon+55-300mm&_sacat=0

Maybe I got a good copy? But I found my 55-300VR sharper than both the more expensive NIkon and Tamron 70-300 VR models (though slightly slower focusing - both now sold) and the Tamron 18-200 VR (which I still have). It's the one lens that I will keep hold of due to its sharpness, weight and size..
 
I'd guess you can find a Nikon 18-200 for a couple of hundred. Much better than the above IMO. Obviously, if the range is good enough for you.,
 
kokolino23 said:
I'd guess you can find a Nikon 18-200 for a couple of hundred. Much better than the above IMO. Obviously, if the range is good enough for you.,
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you could, in fact I am selling one in the for sale section. A good general purpose lens but personally I would (have) go for a nikon 70-300VR if you can afford it along size a shorter range zoom (eg your kit lens). The 18-200 does have the advantage of not having to change lenses so much though.
 
kevinp said:
Sorry to be a pain but whats the best from these three? also whats the difference? as they are all 55-200??
https://slrhut.co.uk/product/ID1018...S-DX-NIKKOR-55_200mm-F_4_5_6G-ED-VR-II-Lens-/
https://slrhut.co.uk/product/ID9C10/2156-_Nikon-AF_S-DX-VR-Zoom_Nikkor-55_200mm-F_4_5_6G-VR-Lens-/
https://slrhut.co.uk/product/ID478C...VR-Zoom_Nikkor-55_200mm-F_4_5_6G-IF_ED-Lens-/
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You could ask the retailer. Since they're selling them, you would hope they know what they're selling. But as we'll see, that turns out not to be the case.

The first one is a Nikon AF-S DX 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED VR II.
The second one claims to be a Nikon AF-S DX VR 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR. However, despite the retailer putting "VR" in the title twice, if you look at the picture there is no "VR" lettering on the nameplate of the lens, and the accompanying text makes no mention of VR. I suspect it is actually the Nikon AF-S 55-200mm f/4-5.6 G ED.
The third one is a Nikon AF-S DX VR 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-ED.

So there you have it. They are all 55-200mm f/4-5.6, but Nikon have made three different versions. These are the VR II, non-VR, and VR versions respectively. The non-VR model was introduced in 2005 and is still produced. The VR version was introduced in 2007 but was replaced by the VR II version in 2015. You can still find the VR version in some shops, including this one, but most of the leading retailers will have sold all their stocks of it and will now only sell the VR II version.

Which is the best? Well, it's hard to see any reason for buying a non-VR one unless it's really really really cheap and you're really really really sure you don't want VR. Other than that, the VR II version is unlikely to be worse than the VR version it replaces. I don't know whether it's meaningfully better though: there are professional reviewers out there on the internet who can tell you. (It might be that Nikon redesigned it to save cost rather than improve performance, for example.) If the VR II version is more expensive, you'd need to decide whether any improvements that you can identify are worth the extra cost. If it's cheaper, it's a no brainer.
 
OK Sorry again but after all that ive gone way over my budget and ordered a Nikon 70-300mm f4.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR
Any hints and tips for using this one in low light at dog shows??
Thanks Everyone for help and adice.
 
Turn on VR.

Read up on reviews for the lens so you know what minimum shutter speed to go for and try to lean against a post.
Hold your breath before pressing shutter.


ps. I'd have gone for the Tamron equivalent. Cheaper and as good according to most test reports.
 
kevinp said:
OK Sorry again but after all that ive gone way over my budget and ordered a Nikon 70-300mm f4.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR
Any hints and tips for using this one in low light at dog shows??
Thanks Everyone for help and adice.
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an excellent choice. I have one and you will not get significantly better at that focal length without going to pro glass. No real tips, it might struggle with focus speed if the light is really poor but you shouldn't have any real problems (pre-focus on something if it is marginal). VR is useful but if dogs are moving (agility etc) then you might need high shutter speeds to avoid motion blur anyway. Don't be afraid to use high ISOs if necessary.
 
kevinp said:
OK Sorry again but after all that ive gone way over my budget and ordered a Nikon 70-300mm f4.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR
Any hints and tips for using this one in low light at dog shows??
Thanks Everyone for help and adice.
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Will they be static shots or will the dogs be moving?

Static shots, use the VR. Get some practise around the house to see just how low you can take your shutter speed while still getting acceptably sharp images while handholding. I'd suggest at 300mm even with VR you want to be above 1/125th to start with.

If they are moving, ie walking around the ring 1/125th will be barely enough, so up the shutter speed to keep the shots sharp. You will find you need to increase the ISO here.

Action/agility/running shots, well you will have to hope they have really good lights.
 
brman said:
an excellent choice. I have one and you will not get significantly better at that focal length without going to pro glass. No real tips, it might struggle with focus speed if the light is really poor but you shouldn't have any real problems (pre-focus on something if it is marginal). VR is useful but if dogs are moving (agility etc) then you might need high shutter speeds to avoid motion blur anyway. Don't be afraid to use high ISOs if necessary.
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Pretty much this. Shutter speed is going to be the most important factor. Let the movement of your subject dictate what shutter speed you need. Aperture will probably be wide open. ISO will be whatever it needs to be. Noisy shots are nearly always better than blurry shots unless you're specifically trying to creating some sort of motion blur. The lens works fine wide open but you may see a small drop of f in sharpness at the 300mm end. If it bothers you, stopping down to 6.3 but backing the zoom off to 250mm ish will probably fix it but in all honesty I never really had any issues with mine in that department.

If you do have the fortune of a nice still subject, with VR, you can probably hand hold right down to 1/100 or maybe even lower.
 
Will they be static shots or will the dogs be moving?
Both but mostly moving, will I have to change after each shot?,will practise with shutter speed with dog running etc.
Should I set the camera to shutter then go from there?? . will ISO change automatically in shutter mode?
Sorry if these are stupid questions but I'm still a complete beginner.
 
kevinp said:
Will they be static shots or will the dogs be moving?
Both but mostly moving, will I have to change after each shot?,will practise with shutter speed with dog running etc.
Should I set the camera to shutter then go from there?? . will ISO change automatically in shutter mode?
Sorry if these are stupid questions but I'm still a complete beginner.
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If both then I would setup for moving shots, that setup might not be perfect for static shots but it would be good enough until you really get the hang of things.
Have a good read of your cameras manual relating to auto iso. I think the D5500 is very good in this respect so you should be able to set a minimum shutter speed and it will set the ISO to give you that speed.
Others may think differently but on my D7100 (which I think has similar, if not quite as good, auto ISO) I use aperture priority mode. This might sound odd (most people will recommend shutter priority for moving subjects) but it allows you to the aperture to what you want for the subject (or, as Graham says, to ensure it is never quite wide open to get better IQ).
So, a typical setup for me for a moving subject and the 70-300 VR.....
- Aperture priority
- aperture at f/7.1 (could get away with 6.3, but avoid wide open at 5.6)
- Auto iso with the following settings
-- minimum shutter speed of 1/320 sec for a moving dog (you need to experiment with this figure to see what gives the right compromise between lack of motion blur and a a sense of movement in the picture).
-- maximum ISO 3200. Again this depends on your camera and what you think you can get away with. you can probably go higher than 3200 if you don't need critical sharpness and large size prints.
If I suddenly find I want a increased depth of field it is then easy to do this with the command wheel and the auto iso ensures I still get the shutter speed I need.

There are compromises with this approach, if you WANT a certain amount of motion blur (as apposed to as sharp as possible) then the camera might end up making the shutter speed higher than you want. In this case shutter priority (or manual with auto iso to control the exposure) might work better.

btw. To a beginner this might sound complicated. If so, I would start with program mode with auto iso to learn how it all works. Then take it from there.
 
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I'm going to throw a different spin on this.

In an indoor dog show with an F5.6 lens even in the best lighting the ISO is going to be high. ISO 3200 minimum I expect probably more to get the 1/320th or higher needed for the shots where there is some action. So shoot wide open. The drop in sharpness will in imperceivable compared to the fact you are already shooting at the fringes of what your gear can do. The increase in shutter speed, however, will be very useful.

Toby makes a good point about using aperture priority and in more ideal circumstances I would certainly agree. In yours, however, I would take a different approach.
-- Shutter priority. The shutter speed it the most critical element to your shot being usable or not, you want to be in complete control of that.
-- Set up auto ISO with a maximum ISO of 6400. I've seen samples with ISO12800 and the shots are remarkably usable for web resolution.

When the dogs are moving you can move your shutter speed to 1/320 (as a starter) and the camera will adjust the aperture and the ISO for you. If you zoom out, the aperture will open up automatically and the ISO will drop. Your shutter speed will remain the same.
When they are posed then you can reduce your shutter speed to as low as 1/60th and the camera will drop the ISO for you and maybe (depending on light) stop down the lens a little.

As I suggested before, practise before you get to the dog show if you can. Get familiar with what you need to change and as you do it more it becomes second nature.
 
brman said:
If both then I would setup for moving shots, that setup might not be perfect for static shots but it would be good enough until you really get the hang of things.
Have a good read of your cameras manual relating to auto iso. I think the D5500 is very good in this respect so you should be able to set a minimum shutter speed and it will set the ISO to give you that speed.
Others may think differently but on my D7100 (which I think has similar, if not quite as good, auto ISO) I use aperture priority mode. This might sound odd (most people will recommend shutter priority for moving subjects) but it allows you to the aperture to what you want for the subject (or, as Graham says, to ensure it is never quite wide open to get better IQ).
So, a typical setup for me for a moving subject and the 70-300 VR.....
- Aperture priority
- aperture at f/7.1 (could get away with 6.3, but avoid wide open at 5.6)
- Auto iso with the following settings
-- minimum shutter speed of 1/320 sec for a moving dog (you need to experiment with this figure to see what gives the right compromise between lack of motion blur and a a sense of movement in the picture).
-- maximum ISO 3200. Again this depends on your camera and what you think you can get away with. you can probably go higher than 3200 if you don't need critical sharpness and large size prints.
If I suddenly find I want a increased depth of field it is then easy to do this with the command wheel and the auto iso ensures I still get the shutter speed I need.

There are compromises with this approach, if you WANT a certain amount of motion blur (as apposed to as sharp as possible) then the camera might end up making the shutter speed higher than you want. In this case shutter priority (or manual with auto iso to control the exposure) might work better.

btw. To a beginner this might sound complicated. If so, I would start with program mode with auto iso to learn how it all works. Then take it from there.
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Does seem a bit complicated for me, but tried some different settings with kit lens. I can set shutter and aperture individually ie I can set shutter in S MODE, Apeture in A MODE, but I cant get all three at once if you know what I mean.? Do I have to say, set shutter in S Mode then let the camera decide on aperture and ISO ?.or vice versa with aperture in A Mode then camera decide shutter and ISO, I have ISO in auto but it does not change when setting shutter ect.
Really sorry if these are stupid questions.
 
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What sort of budget do you have.. Again the Nikon 18-200mm VR or either the 55-300mm VR or 70-300mm VR are all great and the VR would be very useful
 
kevinp said:
I can set shutter and aperture individually ie I can set shutter in S MODE, Apeture in A MODE, but I cant get all three at once if you know what I mean.? Do I have to say, set shutter in S Mode then let the camera decide on aperture and ISO ?.or vice versa with aperture in A Mode then camera decide shutter and ISO, I have ISO in auto but it does not change when setting shutter ect.
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You understand the basic concept of the exposure triangle, right? For a correct exposure you have to have the aperture, shutter speed and ISO sensitivity set appropriately; if you change one of them (eg aperture if you're in aperture priority) then something else has to change to keep the exposure the same.

Traditionally ISO is fixed first. (That's a hangover from film days.) So set your ISO, and then you can work in aperture priority where you set the aperture and the camera works out the shutter speed, or you can work in shutter priority where you set the shutter speed and the camera works out the aperture.

The trouble with this is that, with you setting two of the three parameters, you might inadvertently choose settings which mean there isn't a viable or sensible choice for the third parameter. For example if you set ISO 100 and a shutter speed of 1/1000th, the camera might want/need to set an aperture which is wider than the lens can manage. Or if you set ISO 100 and f/22, the shutter speed set by the camera might be so slow that you'll get camera shake.

This is where Auto ISO comes in. Most modern cameras, including your D5500, allow the ISO to be varied if necessary rather than fixed. So in the shutter priority example, the camera will start off by keeping the ISO value you set and opening up the aperture, but once it's reached the maximum aperture the lens can manage it will then increase the ISO until the exposure is correct. In the aperture priority example, it will start off by keeping the ISO value you set and slowing down the shutter, but once the shutter speed is at the point where the camera thinks that you're risking camera shake (based on the focal length and the use of VR) it will leave it there and increase the ISO to get the correct exposure.

You can even use Auto ISO in manual mode. Set the aperture you want to deliver the desired depth of field; set the shutter speed you want to freeze the motion or otherwise; and the camera will set the appropriate ISO value to get a correct exposure.

Makes sense? How to actually do it with your camera is explained on pages 99 and 241 if the manual.
 
great stuff from Stewart there. If it sounds complicated, don't panic - as Stewart says, understand the exposure triangle and what aperture, shutter and ISO are doing in a digital camera and it is actually quite simple. It can take some time to get your head round it though so persevere.
Also, don't be afraid to use auto and scene modes. Modern cameras are pretty good at guessing the best combination of shutter/aperture/iso for what you are doing. You can then look at the images and the settings the camera used later and hopefully learn what worked and what didn't and hence how you might want to use the A, S and M modes in the future.

kevinp said:
Does seem a bit complicated for me, but tried some different settings with kit lens. I can set shutter and aperture individually ie I can set shutter in S MODE, Apeture in A MODE, but I cant get all three at once if you know what I mean.? Do I have to say, set shutter in S Mode then let the camera decide on aperture and ISO ?.or vice versa with aperture in A Mode then camera decide shutter and ISO, I have ISO in auto but it does not change when setting shutter ect.
Really sorry if these are stupid questions.
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Not stupid questions at all. Everyone had to start with the basics!
To answer these questions directly: you are basically right. In S mode (shutter priority) you set shutter (and ISO if not in auto ISO), the camera sets aperture (and ISO if in auto ISO). In A mode (aperture priority) you set aperture etc.
If you set M mode (manual) you can set both aperture and shutter and ISO (if not in auto ISO mode). But if you are setting all three then (as Stewart said) you have to balance the exposure triangle yourself as it really is manual - the camera will not be adjusting exposure at all.
If you have auto ISO on and it is not changing then that means the camera has either run out of ISO range (ie it is already on the maximum ISO allowed) or it doesn't need to - eg. if you are in shutter priority, auto ISO at 1/300s and the camera has selected f8, ISO 100, then change to 1/600s the camera will change to f5.6 and leave the ISO alone. Ditto, change to 1/150s and the camera will use f16 and leave the ISO at 100. However if you then change to 1/1200s (and your largest aperture is f5.6 on the lens) then the camera will set the aperture to f5.6 (it as large as possible) but then increase the ISO to 200 to get the correct exposure.

With my D7100 at least there is a gotcha. If you are in auto ISO mode but still set the ISO to say 800 then that becomes the minimum ISO that the camera will use. I sometimes do that by mistake and then wonder why it appears to be "stuck" on a high ISO even though there is plenty of light.

btw. of the two methods Richard and I outlined above (shutter priority vs aperture priority) I would go with Richards. He is right that in very poor light shutter prority gives you the best control and concentrates on the most important aspect. Once you get used to that and how the shutter speed and aperture and ISO affect your image you might want to try aperture priority (or even manual with auto ISO) .

Lastly, keep asking questions, it is the only way to learn ;)
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned but assuming that the D5500 works in the same way as previous D5xxx cameras, in (m)manual mode the dial on its own will alter the shutter speed or aperture only (I can't remember which). To alter the other, you hold down the +/- button at the same time. In S and A modes, the +/- button and dial changes exposure compensation. It's a slight nuance of using the smaller Nikon bodies with one dial that those used to the bigger bodies may not be aware of.
 
I would stick in A mode and set the aperture then have auto ISO (min shutter to suit focal length) on and let it sort the rest.. spot metered with 0.3+ exposure comp..
 
technics100 said:
I would stick in A mode and set the aperture then have auto ISO (min shutter to suit focal length) on and let it sort the rest.. spot metered with 0.3+ exposure comp..
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I don't get this. Surely the correct shutter speed should be determined by subject movement not just focal length? Spot metering on what? And what are we compensating for?
 
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gad-westy said:
I don't get this. Surely the correct shutter speed should be determined by subject movement not just focal length? Spot metering on what? And what are we compensating for?
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But your minimum shutter speed is set by the Auto ISO..say 1/250 or 1/320 which should be high enough to capture movement.. your aperture will be set as wide as can be f4-5.6 depending on lens in A mode and spot metered to get correct exposure of main subject in photo - dog etc at show.. I always have my D700 set to +0.3 just to brighten it up slightly.. just my 2 cents..
 
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technics100 said:
But your minimum shutter speed is set by the Auto ISO..say 1/250 or 1/320 which should be high enough to capture movement.. your aperture will be set as wide as can be f4-5.6 depending on lens in A mode and spot metered to get correct exposure of main subject in photo - dog etc at show.. I always have my D700 set to +0.3 just to brighten it up slightly.. just my 2 cents..
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I disagree
While it works for you, in the environment where the primary variable you care about is shutter speed, it is always best to use shutter priority.
If you use aperture priority in that scenario you are setting your most important variable (shutter speed) via the auto ISO menu, making it hard to change, and then going on to set your aperture to the widest setting anyway. Sure, you can capture movement but when the dogs stop moving and are being posed you can afford to drop the shutter speed quite a bit due to VR and (maybe) zooming out. In shutter priority the aperture will be at the widest anyway, the ISO will control the exposure, and the important setting is right at your fingertip.
 
I know what you mean, but the camera is going to do the same thing.. you set shutter speed at 1/250 for 200mm on a DX body, then camera will open the aperture to maximum and start ramping up the ISO.. I don't see why you would want to lower the shutter speed.. the D5500 is sure to handle higher ISO with no real issue..
 
Thanks for help everyone so far, gonna try a few of the settings mentioned, if I cant get it right will try auto and scene then see what settings the camera chooses for itself.
One thing I did forget to mention, and think it might make a big difference is that I don't think that the flash can be used as it puts the dogs off there stride. Think its really frowned upon in the dog world using flash.
 
kevinp said:
Thanks for help everyone so far, gonna try a few of the settings mentioned, if I cant get it right will try auto and scene then see what settings the camera chooses for itself.
One thing I did forget to mention, and think it might make a big difference is that I don't think that the flash can be used as it puts the dogs off there stride. Think its really frowned upon in the dog world using flash.
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Good call, everything I mentioned assumes you will not be using flash.

technics100 said:
I know what you mean, but the camera is going to do the same thing.. you set shutter speed at 1/250 for 200mm on a DX body, then camera will open the aperture to maximum and start ramping up the ISO.. I don't see why you would want to lower the shutter speed.. the D5500 is sure to handle higher ISO with no real issue..
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An indoor dog show with a shutter speed of 1/250th-1/320th will be seeing a minimum of 3200 and depending on the lighting and position in the ring could easily be at 12800 or more. Op has bought a 70-300mm with VR so I am basing my advice around that.
Pretty sure if they are not moving you would want to drop the shutter speed in order to improve the image quality. I know I would.
 
Thanks Again. Going to a big show on Saturday so will practice then. Just a quick question, what's the best memory card for D5500?
 
SD cards are so cheap so stick to the better known brands.. sandisk etc.. although I have used kingston etc in the past and never had any issues
 
technics100 said:
SD cards are so cheap so stick to the better known brands.. sandisk etc.. although I have used kingston etc in the past and never had any issues
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That sounds like you think Kingston is not one the better known brands? fwiw they are huge in the memory market, in fact they have over 50% of the market share in DRAM according to their website. I am not sure about NAND flash but I suspect they know what they are doing ;)

EDIT: before someone else says this, it appears Toshiba, Samsung and Sanddisk have the top 3 slots in NAND flash.
 
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Nothing wrong with kingston.. It's just that Sandisk pioneered the technology.. As I said, I have and use both brands..
 
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