Budget Lightmeters options

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Fulhair

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Andy
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I'm starting to try my hand at home studio phtography and I'm looking to get a light meter to take out some of the guesswork in my set up.

Problem is I don't have much to spend. The sekonics l-308s seem like a good budget option but even a second hand ones sell on here or on ebay for around £100 which is too pricey for me give the amount it would be used.

Can anyone recommend any cheaper options which are simple to use (i.e. idiot proof :bonk:) giving an f-stop reading?

Cheers
Fulhair
 
this may seem a little noobish (or even plain stupid) but I don't get the need to buy a light meter unless using an old film camera? modern film cameras / DSLR's all come with built in light meters, so surely then you don't need an external light meter?

With a bit of trial and error, as well as understanding your equipment, then you can find the correct exposure for a particular shot

Sorry for the thread hijack, Andy. Just something I've been curious of for a little while.
 
Ash. said:
using an old film camera? modern film cameras / DSLR's all come with built in light meters
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Nail, head, hit.

Most old film cameras either dont have functioning or reliable meters, in a lot of cases, dont have meters at all
 
robhooley167 said:
Nail, head, hit.

Most old film cameras either dont have functioning or reliable meters, in a lot of cases, dont have meters at all
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Nail, head, miss.
Meters built into cameras can't meter studio flash.

To answer the question, literally any flash meter is almost guaranteed to give you exactly the same reading as any other flash meter. If you pay more money, you get more features and (maybe) better build quality, but the same results
 
Ash doesnt mention studio flash
 
Perhaps a bit naive in my responce, not putting 2+2 together and realising that with Andy getting into studio photography meant metering flashes too.

Out of interest though, Gerry; I'm still not entirely sure as to why someone would need a light meter? I stand by my original (possibly idiotic) point of "with a bit of trial and error... etc"

I know Andy wishes to take some guesswork out of setting up, but in my opinion thats where photography is fun and enhances a photographers knowledge.

Horses for courses and all that, I'm not suggesting that I'm right, just interested as to what others use meters for / why they use them etc, because as I see it, even with a meter telling you the 'correct' settings, that doesn't mean it's 'correct' for the particular shot the photographer is doing.
 
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You've got my name wrong, but that doesn't mean that everything else in your post is wrong:)

I agree that using a meter doesn't guarantee correct exposure; using it correctly pretty much guarantees technically correct exposure, or at least it does when the light is more or less in front of the subject, but all that a meter actually does is to provide data that a competent photographer will then use to make the decisions

And yes, there are other ways of doing it too, for example by using the histogram. But a meter makes it easier, quicker and more efficient.
 
oops, I apologise *blames apples autocorrect*

Thanks for your answer though, as I say, I was just curious as it's never something that I've really looked or read into so had no clue about the need for them!
 
Ash. said:
oops, I apologise *blames apples autocorrect*

Thanks for your answer though, as I say, I was just curious as it's never something that I've really looked or read into so had no clue about the need for them!
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The bit Garry never pointed out.

If you're using more than one flash, it's easy to measure your lighting ratio's with a meter. Of course you can make up your own ratios using trial and error.

But the point of 'learning' lighting is that you can create certain predetermined lighting patterns without too much effort. By knowing your figures, it's easy to switch stuff about and maintain a happy workflow.

Put yourself in the model / subjects shoes when the photographer spends ten minutes umming, erring and head scratching before smiling and saying 'this should be OK now if you just drop your shoulder and look this way:)'
 
Just keep an eye on Ebay I recently got one for £70 also the L-208B goes for slightly less, you will eventually get one at the right price.
 
Once again my the stunning lack of context in my orginal post provokes more than my usual amount of confusion. Yes I was specifically thinking of studio and off camera flash photography.

I've got a hi-lite backdrop so need to ensure that I don't overexpose the high key background.
Lastolite say a two stop difference difference between the backdrop and subject, though I've noted that Garry say it should be more like 0.7.
As Phil V points out, as I'll mostly be shooting children and family, so not the most patient of subjects!

Anyway, to get back to the point, I was reading the Lencarta twitter feed and it linked to this video. I went on one of Garry's studio courses a while back and this refreshed alot of it.

In the video he show his fancy Minolta light meter and one with simple led array. I'm thinking at my price I'll be getting something like the latter but no idea of a make of model that will do what I want, especially if it's older or second hand. So any recommendations what models/makes to look for and where to find one?
 
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Fulhair said:
Lastolite say a two stop difference difference between the backdrop and subject, though I've noted that Garry say it should be more like 0.7.
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Garry is right and the Lastolite site is wrong. Modest, ain't I:lol:

Fulhair said:
In the video he show his fancy Minolta light meter and one with simple led array. I'm thinking at my price I'll be getting something like the latter but no idea of a make of model that will do what I want, especially if it's older or second hand. So any recommendations what models/makes to look for and where to find one?
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Looking on fleabay, there's a fairly modern Polaris meter here
And 3 Shepherd ones here, here and here - and that's without looking too hard...

These are basic meters, but not as basic as the old Jessops-branded one in my video. I've actually got an old Shepherd meter lying around in my studio somewhere, from memory the only fault with it is that it doesn't have an auto-off, so the battery dies if you forget to switch it off.
 
Thanks Gary, just the stuff I was looking for. Will keep an eye on fleabay and see if the Polaris, Shepherd or Sekonic fit my budget.


Garry Edwards said:
Garry is right and the Lastolite site is wrong. Modest, ain't I:lol:
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Think the conversation was trying to about the keeping the detail against a high key background, but was showing I'm learning from this forum!:geek:
 
I thought I would not post another reply, but ASH`s comments shows that he is trying to run before he can crawl. Any camera meter is useless for flash. I have six meters for flash, 2 courtney, meter and LED plus GOSSEN LUNASIX (my favourite) and a SEKONIC plus 2 MINOLTA`s. Strange thing is they all agree with each other.
 
6 Flash meters now that's what I call overkill, maybe you could sell one to the OP, you should be able to get by ok with the other 5 :)
 
I have a couple of Minolta meters for sale in the Accessories Forum. Both are better than the basic sekonic models and cheeper.
 
Ash. said:
Out of interest though, Gerry; I'm still not entirely sure as to why someone would need a light meter? I stand by my original (possibly idiotic) point of "with a bit of trial and error... etc"
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I use a light meter a lot to measure the light falling on a subject

Camera light meters measure light reflected back from the subject

Besides the obvious usages, I use a flashmeter to measure evenness in flash lighting too
 
A question for Garry. Playing around with high speed flash, I find that my Nikon set to 1/4000 I have to open up to F2.8 to get a reasonable shot of a rotating disc running at 25000 rpm. But if I connect my adaptor to a studio flash then slip a box with a 1/8" in the end, over the flash head of the SB700. this gives me enough light to trigger the adapter. I can now set the camera to F11 for a reasonable shot. BUT it`s not a full shot, only a slit. Now my query is, the Studio flash has a duration of 1.42ms and the camera at 1/4000 is 250 us. Why did I only get a slit? The exif shows it was as set.
 
eagercat said:
A question for Garry. Playing around with high speed flash, I find that my Nikon set to 1/4000 I have to open up to F2.8 to get a reasonable shot of a rotating disc running at 25000 rpm. But if I connect my adaptor to a studio flash then slip a box with a 1/8" in the end, over the flash head of the SB700. this gives me enough light to trigger the adapter. I can now set the camera to F11 for a reasonable shot. BUT it`s not a full shot, only a slit. Now my query is, the Studio flash has a duration of 1.42ms and the camera at 1/4000 is 250 us. Why did I only get a slit? The exif shows it was as set.
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Since Garry is still in bed, your question is more about how a focal plane shutter works. Google that one, but basically it means you cannot normally use flash at a shutter speed higher than the max x-sync speed, which will be either 1/200sec or 1/250sec depending on which Nikon you have. If you go above that, you'll get a dark band at the bottom of the picture which gets progressively wider as speeds increase.

I'm not sure exactly what you're doing or the situation, but the easiest answer getting high speed flash is to switch the SB700 to manual, 1/4 power that will give you a flash duration of roughly 1/4000sec (1/8th power will be around 1/8000sec, 1/16th power 1/16,000sec and so on, very roughly).

Then set the shutter speed to max x-sync and shoot in a darkened room so there is no ambient light affecting the exposure. You can adjust the exposure with lens aperture and ISO, or by varying the flash to subject distance.
 
Bloody cheek, I'm getting sick of you Richard:)
These lies are really getting me down, at 08.30 I was over the park with my dog, and if you bribe him with a bone he will happily confirm that.
 
Panic over. As I said there was only sufficient light from the sb700 to trigger the adapter.The studio flash had only the front on, so the A O V was small, lighting only a small area. Looking at it on the PC It was hard to see the left and right of the shot. Not until I did a 10*8 print did I see the faint outlines. Some mothers do have `em.
 
HoppyUK said:
Since Garry is still in bed, your question is more about how a focal plane shutter works. Google that one, but basically it means you cannot normally use flash at a shutter speed higher than the max x-sync speed, which will be either 1/200sec or 1/250sec depending on which Nikon you have. If you go above that, you'll get a dark band at the bottom of the picture which gets progressively wider as speeds increase.

I'm not sure exactly what you're doing or the situation, but the easiest answer getting high speed flash is to switch the SB700 to manual, 1/4 power that will give you a flash duration of roughly 1/4000sec (1/8th power will be around 1/8000sec, 1/16th power 1/16,000sec and so on, very roughly).

Then set the shutter speed to max x-sync and shoot in a darkened room so there is no ambient light affecting the exposure. You can adjust the exposure with lens aperture and ISO, or by varying the flash to subject distance.
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An Sb700 setting at 1/8 1/16 power using 1/4000. You cannot be serious It struggles at fully open aperture full power.That is why I used the SB700 just to trigger the Studio flash.
 
eagercat said:
An Sb700 setting at 1/8 1/16 power using 1/4000. You cannot be serious It struggles at fully open aperture full power.That is why I used the SB700 just to trigger the Studio flash.
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Totally serious. If you need very short flash durations around 1/4000sec, your SB700 will deliver that, but only when turned down so obviously power will be reduced. As I said, we have no idea what you're trying to do so you can either work around that, or not.

To get an effective shutter speed anywhere near that using studio flash needs to employ the tail-sync hack. Used with normal x-sync, studio flash has relatively long durations and the claimed t.5 figures are nowhere near actual shutter speeds of that duration - multiply by 2x or 3x to get nearer the real equivalent. The tail sync technique can get around that, but power will be dramatically reduced and you will also get uneven exposure down the frame, which may or may not be an issue.

If you explain what you're trying to do, and exactly what you're using, there may be answer, but right now we're shooting in the dark. Maybe start a new thread as this in't much to do with flash meters ;)
 
HoppyUK said:
Totally serious. If you need very short flash durations around 1/4000sec, your SB700 will deliver that, but only when turned down so obviously power will be reduced. As I said, we have no idea what you're trying to do so you can either work around that, or not.

To get an effective shutter speed anywhere near that using studio flash needs to employ the tail-sync hack. Used with normal x-sync, studio flash has relatively long durations and the claimed t.5 figures are nowhere near actual shutter speeds of that duration - multiply by 2x or 3x to get nearer the real equivalent. The tail sync technique can get around that, but power will be dramatically reduced and you will also get uneven exposure down the frame, which may or may not be an issue.

If you explain what you're trying to do, and exactly what you're using, there may be answer, but right now we're shooting in the dark. Maybe start a new thread as this in't much to do with flash meters ;)
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I have just run thru all the power ratios of the Sb700 with a MINOLTA meter starting with 1/1 6 ft from meter. going down the ratios 1/1 to 1/128. EV = 16.5, 11.6, 8, 5.6, 4, 2.8, 2, 1.4.So obviously using 1/4 1/8 and 1/16 you just aint got the light for a good shot. It`s not what I am trying to do, it`s what I have done. Being able to take a 1/4000 shot with a stopped down lens.
 
eagercat said:
I have just run thru all the power ratios of the Sb700 with a MINOLTA meter starting with 1/1 6 ft from meter. going down the ratios 1/1 to 1/128. EV = 16.5, 11.6, 8, 5.6, 4, 2.8, 2, 1.4.So obviously using 1/4 1/8 and 1/16 you just aint got the light for a good shot. It`s not what I am trying to do, it`s what I have done. Being able to take a 1/4000 shot with a stopped down lens.
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If that's what you've got, that's what you have to work with.

If you can't open the aperture, raise ISO or move the gun closer. Half the distance will give you an extra two stops. Zooming the head will help a bit too.
 
I have a free light meter app on my andriod phone that playing with the moment. I have just started to started to use today! It's free no charge.. Is that cheap enough?
 
happymann said:
I have a free light meter app on my andriod phone that playing with the moment. I have just started to started to use today! It's free no charge.. Is that cheap enough?
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Had not though about that! What the app's name?
I've gone for a cheap second hand sekonic and could capare the accuracy and see if it'll do what I need.
 
happymann said:
I have a free light meter app on my andriod phone that playing with the moment. I have just started to started to use today! It's free no charge.. Is that cheap enough?
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I doubt the app will meter for flash, only ambient so not much help in a studio
 
Have a look at photo tools. It has a lot of useful bits in the app. Dont knock it until youve try it!
 
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