Budget Day 2025

[Norkie]

Budget tomorrow

Sadly, I am looking forward to it. Not for enjoyment but in fear of what this current government will inflict upon pensioners, savers, businesses and the working man.

 

[Nod]

Bend over and brace, brace, brace...

 

[hunnymonster]

Almost like reality of the last 3-4 decades of "low taxes" has to be paid for is rapidly dawning.

Not saying I welcome paying any more in taxes, but if you want decent public services, we all need to pay a commensurate part towards it - hopefully by levying on those most able to pay & not some wee old granny somewhere.

 

[lindsay]

In truth I don't mind an extra penny or two on income tax if it goes to improving or even just maintaining services. I object to NI (both employers and employees), we should just have income tax. No chancellor is brave enough to do that though. Simplification of the tax code, removing vast swathes of random taxation and concomitant loopholes, would probably raise more money through removing opportunities for avoidance. They won't be brave enough for that either. So there will be more tinkering, which will hurt many a little, and benefit a few a little. However I do agree that means-testing the winter fuel payment is right - for years that was avoided by all governments, but now it is happening, it is fair. I'm annoyed by the frozen thresholds, but accept the need to stick with that. I do think the 2-child benefit cap could be removed, but I think it should be replaced by a 3-child cap. Not done away with altogether. Etc. Tinkering.

 

[Mr Bump]

I think it will be uncomfortable but it needs to be, to long have we held back on taxes and it has left a financial vacuum that modern living just to
many missed opportunities , to many give aways over the decades have come to a point, the country is going bust.

personally 1% on income tax
increase on fuel duty
massive overhaul on VED for older cars
stamp duty abolished and just converted to a straight % tax paid by buyers.
pension contributions sacrifice reduced
close loophole on landlords income
many more to be fair as well

 

[cambsno]

I think it will be uncomfortable but it needs to be, to long have we held back on taxes and it has left a financial vacuum that modern living just to
many missed opportunities , to many give aways over the decades have come to a point, the country is going bust.

personally 1% on income tax
increase on fuel duty
massive overhaul on VED for older cars
stamp duty abolished and just converted to a straight % tax paid by buyers.
pension contributions sacrifice reduced
close loophole on landlords income
many more to be fair as well

It hasnt - the % of taxes we pay goes up every year and it really shouldnt be the case. The awful freeze on thresholds is bringing lots of people into 40% which is not fair.

We should simplify the tax system but we wont as its easier to do stealth taxes when there are so many.

What is annoying me is the proposed lifting to 2 child benefit cap. Simple, wear a condom or simply have a w***. You dont NEED to have more than 2 kids so if you want more, pay yourself!

 

[Norkie]

I understand that you need to pay your fair share of tax to pay for services, it's the inflated benefits that are out of control and far too generous.

Get more people in to work and get more tax receipts

 

[Mr Bump]

for me one of the age groups being side-lined a lot lately and is fed up is my age group 50-60 we get no benefits or any kind of help for anything despite paying in to the system all our lives, i gave up work at 54 mainly because of this , i had my private pension ready and had paid all my state pension years and the gov expects me to work 12 more years for no bonus, just more tax and NI? yet the gov wants my generation back to work to fill skills gaps, f*** that.

 

[Mr Bump]

I understand that you need to pay your fair share of tax to pay for services, it's the inflated benefits that are out of control and far too generous.

Get more people in to work and get more tax receipts

yep and without getting political Starmer tried to pass reductions in that to get the bill down and his own MPs stabbed him in the back.

 

[mj4456]

Watched a bit on the news last night re 2 child cap, several complaining that their 4 or 5 kids were doing without whilst mum had plenty make up, tattoos and false nails! Someone not going without, if you can’t feed them, don’t breed them, kids often grow up to copy the lifestyle they know.

 

[Norkie]

The Office for Budget Responsibility unexpectedly publishes its growth forecast ahead of Chancellor Rachel Reeves's statement at 12:30 GMT

The OBR report - seemingly published in error - confirms that income tax thresholds will be frozen until the end of the 2030/31 financial year.

That's three years longer than planned.

The OBR says the Budget will raise taxes by £26bn by 2029-30, and brings the tax take to an all-time high of 38% of GDP in 2030-31

 

[Mr Bump]

It hasnt - the % of taxes we pay goes up every year and it really shouldnt be the case. The awful freeze on thresholds is bringing lots of people into 40% which is not fair.

We should simplify the tax system but we wont as its easier to do stealth taxes when there are so many.

What is annoying me is the proposed lifting to 2 child benefit cap. Simple, wear a condom or simply have a w***. You dont NEED to have more than 2 kids so if you want more, pay yourself!

you are kind of missing the point though we actually need to encourage people to have more kids in the UK,

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said the fertility rate (the number of children born to each woman) fell to 1.41 children per woman in 2024. That is the third year running that it has dropped and is the lowest since records began 90 years ago.

If we don't help this side out we will be a shrinking population.

 

[Mr Bump]

Watched a bit on the news last night re 2 child cap, several complaining that their 4 or 5 kids were doing without whilst mum had plenty make up, tattoos and false nails! Someone not going without, if you can’t feed them, don’t breed them, kids often grow up to copy the lifestyle they know.

yeah but as a i pointed out above ,, birth rate per woman in the UK is falling fast, we actually need more children born in the UK badly

 

[Mr Bump]

The Office for Budget Responsibility unexpectedly publishes its growth forecast ahead of Chancellor Rachel Reeves's statement at 12:30 GMT

The OBR report - seemingly published in error - confirms that income tax thresholds will be frozen until the end of the 2030/31 financial year.

That's three years longer than planned.

The OBR says the Budget will raise taxes by £26bn by 2029-30, and brings the tax take to an all-time high of 38% of GDP in 2030-31

hate to say it but its the right policy freezing thresholds and as to taxation we are still a long way behind other countries
and if we are going to give great services we need the money from somewhere. This 2021 so a few years old but it shows how much other economies pay
and look at the names of the countries.

 

[mj4456]

yeah but as a i pointed out above ,, birth rate per woman in the UK is falling fast, we actually need more children born in the UK badly

I know a guy who moans about the lack of benefits for more than two kids, in the pub 5 nights a week, full Sky tv package, recent car(people carrier to transport many kids) hardly living in poverty? Priorities in spending or just wants more money for longer holidays.

 

[cambsno]

The Office for Budget Responsibility unexpectedly publishes its growth forecast ahead of Chancellor Rachel Reeves's statement at 12:30 GMT

The OBR report - seemingly published in error - confirms that income tax thresholds will be frozen until the end of the 2030/31 financial year.

That's three years longer than planned.

The OBR says the Budget will raise taxes by £26bn by 2029-30, and brings the tax take to an all-time high of 38% of GDP in 2030-31

That is totally immoral IMO.

If min wage goes up by 4% each year, by 2031 that will be just over 32k (from 26.4k next year). Just a salary of 18k more than min wage will see you in a high tax bracket - 40%. Thats crazy and will pull millions of normal, everyday people into it.

I have defended Labour at times as they needed a chance (and some on here were criticising them on a point of principle it seems). But enough is enough, the leopard has not changed its spots - lets give more in benefits and welfare to the lazy and unskilled, and penalise those that want to do well, save etc...

 

[cambsno]

hate to say it but its the right policy freezing thresholds and as to taxation we are still a long way behind other countries
and if we are going to give great services we need the money from somewhere. This 2021 so a few years old but it shows how much other economies pay
and look at the names of the countries.

View attachment 468738

The issue with that in isolation is that it ignores other essential living costs

Average in UK for a 3 bed house is 320k - in France its 140k (150 EUR). Thats under half the price. So when you aggregate tax and housing we are being ripped off.

 

[cambsno]

you are kind of missing the point though we actually need to encourage people to have more kids in the UK,

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said the fertility rate (the number of children born to each woman) fell to 1.41 children per woman in 2024. That is the third year running that it has dropped and is the lowest since records began 90 years ago.

If we don't help this side out we will be a shrinking population.

No, we need to stop allowing every other teenager to be signing in sick as they are too anxious to work. Sickness in the young is going up each year at crazy rates - part of the reason why we spend so much on welfare. Use the kids we have to go out and work, not sponge

 

[cambsno]

Why not stop hammering those earning 40-50k a year and put a wealth tax in?

Never thought I would say this but we need reform in. Not because they will fix it, far from it, but both main parties need a wake up call!

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

No, we need to stop allowing every other teenager to be signing in sick as they are too anxious to work.

It wouldn't harm if education, beyond primary school, was to concentrate on how to survive in the real world and how teach yourself to make yourself suitable for the real world of work.

 

[f/1.2]

Watched a bit on the news last night re 2 child cap, several complaining that their 4 or 5 kids were doing without whilst mum had plenty make up, tattoos and false nails! Someone not going without, if you can’t feed them, don’t breed them, kids often grow up to copy the lifestyle they know.

You seem to be missing the point here entirely of why they have removed the cap.

Labour have no option but to pander to a certain religious grouping, they are the reason they are in government. Pretty much all of the policies they have introduced since they have come into power have been based around supporting that religious grouping. On average that religious grouping in the U.K have 2.9 children, this change appeases them and puts more money in their pocket. Only 51.4% of that religious grouping are in employment in the U.K, the rest live of benefits.

 

[gman]

you are kind of missing the point though we actually need to encourage people to have more kids in the UK,

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said the fertility rate (the number of children born to each woman) fell to 1.41 children per woman in 2024. That is the third year running that it has dropped and is the lowest since records began 90 years ago.

If we don't help this side out we will be a shrinking population.

I think we should address those who can work but don't work first, then look at our population. Increasing the population impacts infrastructure and services, but not necessarily revenue.

 

[lindsay]

It wouldn't harm if education, beyond primary school, was to concentrate on how to survive in the real world and how teach yourself to make yourself suitable for the real world of work.

Whilst not entirely disagreeing, past generations were never prepared for the real world by schools. Education is not the same as training. Education teaches people how to learn; sadly not often the case these days. I do think that, strange to say, a format of national service is required, with al; children leaving full time education having to spend at least a year in public service, be it local authority, military, NHS, etc. This has multiple benefits:
- experience of work
-experience of the social aspects of work
- gaining vocational experience
- earning money

How is it funded? Easily resolved bu considering the cost of alternatives ie benefits. There are many vacancies in many areas of the public services so if there are vacancies then there is funding for the vacant jobs.
Also, GPs need to be far less easily persuaded to sign people off with anxiety and depression. Most of the people so diagnosed wouldn't know real depression if it slapped them across the face with a melancholy salmon.

 

[mj4456]

National living wages rises again, old age pension gap increases, how does our oap rate compare to countries who pay more than us in the table above.
Now waiting to see what the Scottish mob do with our budget, bearing in mind we have an election next year.

Sod the religious mob liebour are accused of supporting, if they don’t like it they can leave.

 

[gman]

You seem to be missing the point here entirely of why they have removed the cap.

Labour have no option but to pander to a certain religious grouping, they are the reason they are in government. Pretty much all of the policies they have introduced since they have come into power have been based around supporting that religious grouping. On average that religious grouping in the U.K have 2.9 children, this change appeases them and puts more money in their pocket. Only 51.4% of that religious grouping are in employment in the U.K, the rest live of benefits.

They are certainly in dire need of voters, so nothing would surprise me.

 

[gman]

for me one of the age groups being side-lined a lot lately and is fed up is my age group 50-60 we get no benefits or any kind of help for anything despite paying in to the system all our lives, i gave up work at 54 mainly because of this , i had my private pension ready and had paid all my state pension years and the gov expects me to work 12 more years for no bonus, just more tax and NI? yet the gov wants my generation back to work to fill skills gaps, f*** that.

I'm reminded of a past post full of empathy and compassion towards others...

tough crap...

 

[mj4456]

The taxation changes to evs and hybrids from 2028! Why wait? Be nice if locked my RFL until then, thought I heard something about tax changes for older cars but didn’t pick up on anything.

 

[cambsno]

It wouldn't harm if education, beyond primary school, was to concentrate on how to survive in the real world and how teach yourself to make yourself suitable for the real world of work.

Sadly true - a lot of the stuff at my kids school is pointless. They can do some stuff I can never think of doing but have no idea about the basics.

 

[gman]

Whilst not entirely disagreeing, past generations were never prepared for the real world by schools. Education is not the same as training. Education teaches people how to learn; sadly not often the case these days. I do think that, strange to say, a format of national service is required, with al; children leaving full time education having to spend at least a year in public service, be it local authority, military, NHS, etc. This has multiple benefits:
- experience of work
-experience of the social aspects of work
- gaining vocational experience
- earning money

How is it funded? Easily resolved bu considering the cost of alternatives ie benefits. There are many vacancies in many areas of the public services so if there are vacancies then there is funding for the vacant jobs.
Also, GPs need to be far less easily persuaded to sign people off with anxiety and depression. Most of the people so diagnosed wouldn't know real depression if it slapped them across the face with a melancholy salmon.

Definitely, even something like the cadets would be a good start whilst they are at school. My son is in them and it helps instil some discipline, they are taught life skills such as ironing, there's the fitness aspect and even the camaraderie gives a real boost to confidence.

 

[gman]

The taxation changes to evs and hybrids from 2028! Why wait? Be nice if locked my RFL until then, thought I heard something about tax changes for older cars but didn’t pick up on anything.

I heard that about hybrids and I don't know the details, but surely that's not fair for hybrids that aren't plug-in and can't take advantage of cheaper electricity at home?

EDIT: I've just read that it is only plug-in hybrids.

Whilst I understand the necessity of this for EV's, I fear it opens the gates to amalgamate ICE cars into it sooner than later.

 

[lindsay]

I heard that about hybrids and I don't know the details, but surely that's not fair for hybrids that aren't plug-in and can't take advantage of cheaper electricity at home?

Whilst I understand the necessity of this for EV's, I fear it opens the gates to amalgamate ICE cars into it sooner than later.

I thought the same. I'm curious as to how they plan to implement this though. I guess they could take the recorded mileage at every MoT test and work it out? Otherwise there's no mechanism. I read somewhere that they thought of asking vehicle owners to estimate their mileage and then advise actuals at the end of each year. Like that would work! Unless they have a reliable method of capturing the mileage, it'll be rife with fraud.

 

[gman]

I thought the same. I'm curious as to how they plan to implement this though. I guess they could take the recorded mileage at every MoT test and work it out? Otherwise there's no mechanism. I read somewhere that they thought of asking vehicle owners to estimate their mileage and then advise actuals at the end of each year. Like that would work! Unless they have a reliable method of capturing the mileage, it'll be rife with fraud.

I don't know enough about EV's, but I was assuming all their online abilities would somehow be able to have a firmware/software upgrade to report mileage over the air, possibly via the manufacuturers? If it's transmitted hourly or daily, it would certainly reduce the changes of mileage corrections defrauding the system. Not sure about hybrids though, especially older ones.

Taxi driver's are going to be a little screwed, unless there's exceptions for them? I've barely checked any details of the budget, although I doubt there is much detail at the moment.

 

[ancient_mariner]

I'm pretty sure all EVs have telemetry that can report mileage back to base (as well as many other things) and the delay may well be down to the government giving their IT people a couple of years + the legislation to require car makers to pass on mileage data automatically. Once EVs are a majority transport solution then expect ICE vehicles to be taxed to hell to get them off the road, with little fear of consequence for the government then in power.

 

[lindsay]

It seems the thinking is to get owners to provide an estimate of their mileage when paying their annual VED. So they'll all be doing 2000 miles a year I guess!

 

[lindsay]

In the detail emails I've received this evening, it seems that the savings interest tax rate is going up to 22% and dividend tax rates are also going up. Both of those seem very unfair and counter-productive in respect of encouraging investment, savings and growth. Taken with the cap on NI-free salary sacrifice pension contributions, I think they have hit the wrong people unfairly - the middle class middle earner metropolitan group who put them into power in 2024.

 

[Mr Bump]

seems to me to be a fairly reasonable budget no red flags no big whoppers
disappointed with the freeze on thresholds but i guess that allows tax revenue to rise without any shocks to peoples wallets.
still think she avoided more tax on fuel an easy win.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I thought the same. I'm curious as to how they plan to implement this though. I guess they could take the recorded mileage at every MoT test and work it out? Otherwise there's no mechanism. I read somewhere that they thought of asking vehicle owners to estimate their mileage and then advise actuals at the end of each year. Like that would work! Unless they have a reliable method of capturing the mileage, it'll be rife with fraud.

As the MOT is compulsory and recording the mileage is a part of it, that seems to me a good way to proceed.

 

[Mr Bump]

As the MOT is compulsory and recording the mileage is a part of it, that seems to me a good way to proceed.

but new cars don't have an mot for the first three years?
i think self declaration will be fine for most people

 

[ancient_mariner]

In the detail emails I've received this evening, it seems that the savings interest tax rate is going up to 22% and dividend tax rates are also going up. Both of those seem very unfair and counter-productive in respect of encouraging investment, savings and growth. Taken with the cap on NI-free salary sacrifice pension contributions, I think they have hit the wrong people unfairly - the middle class middle earner metropolitan group who put them into power in 2024.

They were always going to hit those in the middle, we are their natural prey. They can't be seen to take money from all levels of society because of the backbench rebellion (and it's unethical to hit the poorest) and the rich weren't going to pay more tax either. Who is left (pun not intended)?

 

[TheFiend]

Why not stop hammering those earning 40-50k a year and put a wealth tax in?

Never thought I would say this but we need reform in. Not because they will fix it, far from it, but both main parties need a wake up call!

Before I retired my earnings were well into the 40% bracket.... I didn't begrudge having to pay a higher rate of tax, unlike some of my co-workers who would turn down extra shifts with the excuse it was getting taxed at 40%.......... I didn't mind working them and the overtime I did paid for my holidays!!!

Living on a pension now and I still don't begrudge paying income tax.....