Bronica ETRS AEII Prism

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Carl Hall

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I put a test roll through the new ETRS today and noticed something peculiar with the AEII prism, and I'm not sure if user error or a problem with the prism/camera.

When I have the prism set to off or manual mode, the shutter speeds are what I set the shutter speed dial to, and seem accurate. However, when I set the prism mode to automatic, the shutter speeds don't seem to tie up with what the prism is telling me, but it only seems to happen with slightly longer exposures.

For example, I use the prism to meter the scene in M mode, and it gives me a shutter speed of 2 seconds, I then transfer this to the shutter speed dial and the shutter opens correctly for two seconds. If I do the same in A mode, the prism will tell me the same two second exposure, but then goes on to only open for 1/2 a second or so. Seems to apply whether I try it with film in the camera or not.

The battery seems ok (well, the battery indicator lights up if I press the battery check button anyway), and I've cleaned the contacts between the prism and the body too. Any ideas what's going on here?
 
Have you got any compensation dialed into the prism.?

I dont have my kit to hand but its à possible answer to your difference in speeds
 
Yep, Just check that seems a possible. But I would try it with a fresh battery too, the indicator may not be necessarily totally accurate. .
 
Probably better to check the reality with a roll of film? Assuming you are doing your own b&w this is probably the cheapest and best way of finding out.
 
Hi Carl
With mine....on manual it's the same as auto (well near enough), are you sure you are listening to when the iris closes? Also I'm not sure it applies to the Bronica (but certainly for many cameras) is that if the viewfinder is not covered it could affect the esposure.
 
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excalibur2 said:
are you sure you are listening to when the iris closes?
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I nearly made that mistake the other day. I was on a 2 second exposure, pressed the shutter and thought, blimey that's not right, and then heard the faint little click.
 
shreds said:
Yep, Just check that seems a possible. But I would try it with a fresh battery too, the indicator may not be necessarily totally accurate. .
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Hmm good idea, I'll order one and try it when it's delivered. Not sure if it will help but it's one possibility eliminated then :)
 
Peter B said:
Probably better to check the reality with a roll of film? Assuming you are doing your own b&w this is probably the cheapest and best way of finding out.
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Yeah I tried it with a roll in. Initially I was playing around with the camera with no film in and couldn't figure out why everything was working funny. Then I read the manual (I'm a bloke, I don't read manuals until something doesn't work :D ), and tried it with a roll in. The images have come out ok (actually, they came out great. I'm so impressed with the camera), but they were only at speeds of 1/60 and faster, and it all seems to be working at those speeds
 
excalibur2 said:
Hi Carl
With mine....on manual it's the same as auto (well near enough), are you sure you are listening to when the iris closes? Also I'm not sure it applies to the Bronica (but certainly for many cameras) is that if the viewfinder is not covered it could affect the esposure.
Click to expand...

When I press the shutter there's a clunk as the mirror flips up, and the shutter opens, and then a "tick" as the shutter closes again. I'm sure the metering part of the meter works ok, as it tells me the same shutter speed whether I set it to manual or automatic, the problem is that the shutter doesnt open for the amount of time that the meter tells me it will. I.e. it will say 2 seconds which is correct, but then it only opens for 1/2 sec
 
I don't think it's going to be a major issue if I can't get it fixed (it'll just annoy me that it's not right!), as it only seems to be an issue at very slow speeds. When it's that slow It'll be on a tripod anyway and I'll probably be using a separate meter instead of the prism anyway. Ahh well, one little niggle on an ebay special is pretty good going I think!
 
Carl Hall said:
When I press the shutter there's a clunk as the mirror flips up, and the shutter opens, and then a "tick" as the shutter closes again. I'm sure the metering part of the meter works ok, as it tells me the same shutter speed whether I set it to manual or automatic, the problem is that the shutter doesnt open for the amount of time that the meter tells me it will. I.e. it will say 2 seconds which is correct, but then it only opens for 1/2 sec
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So is 1/2 sec the slowest it will go?
 
Looks like you can "compensate" for the error but it's hardly ideal dialing in compensation for box speed!

Interesting and a little disturbing to hear of two cases of prisms that have gone wappy seeing as i have one!!
 
It would be nice to get to the bottom of it.

My instinct is telling me there's probably a simple explanation.
 
simon ess said:
It would be nice to get to the bottom of it.

My instinct is telling me there's probably a simple explanation.
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yeah something like when they get to a certain age they don't work correctly!:D
 
:)

Well, possibly.

But, considering the thousands that would have been sold, that was the only other example of this problem I could find.
 
simon ess said:
:)

Well, possibly.

But, considering the thousands that would have been sold, that was the only other example of this problem I could find.
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Poor Carl, what with his hassy probs and then to fall victim to what appears appears quite a rare issue with the ETRS prism.....some folk simply don't get lucky :(
 
...and what's forgotten is:- most filmies are using cameras from what say 10-70 years old and I wonder how many have been serviced.
 
Just looked at my receipt for the AE-II and was a whopping £213.80 in 1986
 
excalibur2 said:
So is 1/2 sec the slowest it will go?
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I haven't tried it at all speeds, and when I say 1/2 sec its just a guesstimate. I'll do some proper timing in a few minutes but It's definitely wrong at low speeds

simon ess said:
It seems you're not alone Carl

http://www.apug.org/forum/index.php?threads/problem-with-bronica-etrs-ae-ii-metering-prism.49195/
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Yeah I saw that when I was trying to find an answer before I posted, but they never posted to say whether they sorted it!

Asha said:
Looks like you can "compensate" for the error but it's hardly ideal dialing in compensation for box speed!

Interesting and a little disturbing to hear of two cases of prisms that have gone wappy seeing as i have one!!
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I'm not sure I can? The meter is telling me the correct speeds, but the shutter doesn't open for the correct amount of time. If the meter was reading wrong at slower speeds I could compensate with the +/- dial.

simon ess said:
It would be nice to get to the bottom of it.

My instinct is telling me there's probably a simple explanation.
Click to expand...

Usually I find it's user error and I'm doing something wrong! Would be good to sort out though, if only so that it's fully working if I ever decide to sell it (pfft, like I'll ever sell one)

excalibur2 said:
Just looked at my receipt for the AE-II and was a whopping £213.80 in 1986
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Wow that's more than my whole set up cost me! Also, I wasn't even born in 1986 haha :lol:

steveo_mcg said:
All this and you've got a fully functional rb doing nothing.
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Ahh the good old RB, my trusty companion that's never let me down. I did actually use it about a month ago to shoot some slide film, but the results were less than spectacular (due to my inability to meter for slide properly!)
 
steveo_mcg said:
All this and you've got a fully functional rb doing nothing.
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Who me? Yes you are right and MF is my preferred medium but picking up very good 35mm film for peanuts and Asda dev and scan for £3 it's spoiling me....but my two RB lenses are uncocked so they should be ok.
 
excalibur2 said:
Who me? Yes you are right and MF is my preferred medium but picking up very good 35mm film for peanuts and Asda dev and scan for £3 it's spoiling me....but my two RB lenses are uncocked so they should be ok.
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Brian, give it to me to use :) ......you know how well it looked in my arms at Whipsnade, like a baby, MY baby:D.......I'll contribute a few quid towards postage:exit::D
 
Well Carl if the lens won't fire slower than 1/2 sec then I would complain to the seller for a partial refund.
 
Asha said:
Brian, give it to me to use :) ......you know how well it looked in my arms at Whipsnade, like a baby, MY baby:D.......I'll contribute a few quid towards postage:exit::D
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You haven't got the muscular build to handle it....you'll only get a hernia :D
 
Ok, so I went back and properly read through the AEII prism manual again, and on page 11 it states "the shutter speed is controlled in stageless steps from 8 seconds to 1/500 second, when the AE-II finder E is set to automatic exposure operations."

When I read this yesterday evening I didn't think anything of it, but this time it got me thinking about a review I watched on YouTube for the Yashica Electro 35 GSN recently, where the reviewer said that the shutter speed was "stepless" and could do 1/500, 1/499, 1/498 etc of a second when needed, depending on what the lightmeter told it. Thinking that the AEII manuals reference to a "stageless" steps might be a similar thing, I did a bit more of a test of the shutter speeds by measuring them at 1/3 ISO stops (ISO stops because the aperture ring only does full stops), and it was interesting...

I set the camera and prism to ISO 200 f/8, and the prism told me that the shutter speed would be 2 secs. I timed it and it actually measured 1 second. Hence why I thought something was wrong

I dropped the ISO 1/3 of a stop each time and then retested it in the same way, results below:

Settings------------------Indicated shutter speed---------Actual shutter speed
ISO 200 f/8-----------------------2 secs-----------------------------1.00 secs
ISO 160 f/8-----------------------2 secs-----------------------------1.25 secs
ISO 125 f/8-----------------------2 secs-----------------------------1.65 secs
ISO 100 f/8-----------------------4 secs-----------------------------2.00 secs
ISO 80 f/8-------------------------4 secs-----------------------------2.50 secs

Interestingly the 1/3 stop jumps down in ISO resulted in a third of a stop change up in shutter speed (well, as close enough as I am able to measure them).

So it turns out that the camera simply indicates the "approx" nearest value rounded up. I guess it rounds up so that you don't bank on a shutter speed to catch some action and then find it's slower.

So the take away message from this thread is that I am a total penis, my camera works ok, and that it's down to user error.

:D
 
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Well the proof of the pudding is in the eating,,,, if you are happy with the exposures on your film whether manual or auto then problem solved.
 
steveo_mcg said:
RTFM :D
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To be fair I did! :P

I think the wording in the manual is pretty pants really, how can it be stageless and have steps too?! If they had said "the shutter speed is controlled in a stageless range from 8 seconds to 1/500 second" then I might have figured it out when I first read it :lol:
 
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