Britain First

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big soft moose said:
alledgedly they could (according to the BF website) , and thee are one or two tokens that they wheel out for PR - but in reality why would a moderate muslim join an organisation that prides itself on invading mosques and disrupting worship ?
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What is a 'moderate Muslim' to you?
 
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Phil V said:
Although BSM's 'joke' could be described as Racist, given that it hangs on the falsehood that black men are anatomically different to white men.
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You could also argue that was a discriminatory comment aimed at us white boys, suggesting that we are inadequate ;)
 
Speak for yourself, honky!!!
 
I don't give a toss what you think but suggesting I'm homosexual with a liking for black men as a derisory remark is homophobic imo.
 
Cobra said:
You could also argue that was a discriminatory comment aimed at us white boys, suggesting that we are inadequate ;)
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You should be doing what you bleet on about doing and sort out the personal put downs. Seems to me you are pretty selective when it comes to being a mod.
 
BRASH said:
Seems to me you are pretty selective when it comes to being a mod.
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Only to those on the wrong side of sanctions ;)
 
Cobra said:
Only to those on the wrong side of sanctions ;)
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So if I want to go on here and deride people I don't agree with I can suggest they are poofs and shag black men. Ok, I'll go with that, fine by me.
 
BRASH said:
I don't give a toss what you think but suggesting I'm homosexual with a liking for black men as a derisory remark is homophobic imo.
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You are of course entitled to your opinion, but if being a homosexual isn't an insult, how is suggesting someone is homosexual 'homophobic'? It's certainly an insult if you object; but homophobic? Not really.

Technically, we could surmise that the only homophobia is shown when someone sees being called homosexual an insult, but I don't think I'd go that far, most straight blokes would object a bit.
 
BRASH said:
So if I want to go on here and deride people I don't agree with I can suggest they are poofs and shag black men. Ok, I'll go with that, fine by me.
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It was a joke, and everyone else took it as a joke,
I've lost count of how many times you've threatened, people been down right rude,
and all in the name of humour,
If it has upset you that much I will tidy the thread up, but just bare in mind,
not everyone gets your humour too
 
Phil V said:
You are of course entitled to your opinion, but if being a homosexual isn't an insult, how is suggesting someone is homosexual 'homophobic'? It's certainly an insult if you object; but homophobic? Not really.

Technically, we could surmise that the only homophobia is shown when someone sees being called homosexual an insult, but I don't think I'd go that far, most straight blokes would object a bit.
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I consider me being suggested as a homosexual,when I am not, as an insult and I'm pretty sure that's how moose intended it.
 
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Cobra said:
It was a joke, and everyone else took it as a joke,
I've lost count of how many times you've threatened, people been down right rude,
and all in the name of humour,
If it has upset you that much I will tidy the thread up, but just bare in mind,
not everyone gets your humour too
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Don't bother tidying the thread up. The fact is the things were said and having already warned people (on various threads) not to get personal you did nothing. I don't find it very funny for it to be suggested I'm gay and go with black men.

I'd like to see where I've actually threatened people.
 
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BRASH said:
I consider me being suggested as a homosexual,when I am not, as an insult and I'm pretty sure that's how moose intended it.
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Like I said, you're probably right. I'd personally not have taken it so personally, but then I'm comfortable with my sexuality and don't have a problem with people being gay. :)
 
Phil V said:
Like I said, you're probably right. I'd personally not have taken it so personally, but then I'm comfortable with my sexuality and don't have a problem with people being gay. :)
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I don't have a problem with gays per se either but I don't like it being inferred I am one. Just like I'd be offended if somebody called me a hippy, greaser or leftie.
 
BRASH said:
I don't have a problem with gays per se either but I don't like it being inferred I am one. Just like I'd be offended if somebody called me a hippy, greaser or leftie.
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It looks to me like you have a problem with gays, hippies, greasers and lefties.
Which seems a shame as I thought you were such a tolerant bloke. ;)
 
Phil V said:
It looks to me like you have a problem with gays, hippies, greasers and lefties.
Which seems a shame as I thought you were such a tolerant bloke. ;)
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No to both points raised.
 
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Phil V said:
I didn't read anything homophobic. Mentioning homosexuality isn't homophobic, one would have to do it in a derisory way. No-one suggested you were a lesser person because you liked men.
Although BSM's 'joke' could be described as Racist, given that it hangs on the falsehood that black men are anatomically different to white men.
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not necessarily - just that Brash might believe that they are :)

For the record I have no information whatsoever about Brash's sexuality (although when someone gets that upset when its implied they might be gay you have to wonder about denial), nor do I much care - since i'm not a homophobe whether he is gay or straight would make no difference to my opinion of him
 
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There are plenty 'anatomical differences' on here. They keep displaying themselves and indeed some are way bigger than others.
 
BRASH said:
There are plenty 'anatomical differences' on here. They keep displaying themselves and indeed some are way bigger than others.
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Though most would appear to be on the down side of diminutive.
 
Laudrup said:
What is a 'moderate Muslim' to you?
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the same as moderate christian (or hindu, buddhist, wiccan, aetheist etc)

one who's not an extremist ... duh
 
Laudrup said:
So Muslims who believe acts of violence being justified for publishing cartoons of Mohammed, are they moderate?
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I think that's a question which demonstrates you're a tad out of your depth.

Or just spoiling for continued argument.
 
viv1969 said:
I think that's a question which demonstrates you're a tad out of your depth.

Or just spoiling for continued argument.
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I can see where he's headed - there was a stat on how many British muslims believed that violence was justified by publishing cartoons of mohammed... 78% i believe is the claimed figure - however this is extremely misquoted .. in fact 78% (of the 2000 British muslims poled) thought that the cartoons were offensive . 68% of those polled said that violence (of the nature of the Charlie Hebdo attacks) was never justified while 27% said they had "some sympathy" with those who carried them out (its worth noting that there's a big difference between having some sympathy and actually believing they are right)

To answer Loudburps question , no those who actually believe the violence to be justified (less then 5%) are not moderates - I would have thought that was self explanatory
 
big soft moose said:
I can see where he's headed - there was a stat on how many British muslims believed that violence was justified by publishing cartoons of mohammed... 78% i believe is the claimed figure - however this is extremely misquoted .. in fact 78% (of the 2000 British muslims poled) thought that the cartoons were offensive . 68% of those polled said that violence (of the nature of the Charlie Hebdo attacks) was never justified while 27% said they had "some sympathy" with those who carried them out (its worth noting that there's a big difference between having some sympathy and actually believing they are right)

To answer Loudburps question , no those who actually believe the violence to be justified (less then 5%) are not moderates - I would have thought that was self explanatory
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Your interpretation of the stats is poor, but the 24% who think violence can be justified over the publishing of a cartoon, are they moderate in their views? I don't think you really know what a 'moderate Muslim' is. Lazy statements 'just like a moderate Christian/Jew/athiest' won't do.
 
Laudrup said:
Your interpretation of the stats is poor, but the 24% who think violence can be justified over the publishing of a cartoon, are they moderate in their views? I don't think you really know what a 'moderate Muslim' is. Lazy statements 'just like a moderate Christian/Jew/athiest' won't do.
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I strongly suspect you are just trolling but to take it once more from the top

there aren't 24% who feel that the cartoons justify violence - in the NOP pole (for channel 4 dispatches) NOP charecterised 9% of those they interviwed as hard core islamists who believe terrorism is justified (source http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291 ) - those 9% are clearly extremists and ergo not moderates. In the smaller BBC poll 24% disagreed with the statement that "such violence can never be justfied" (source http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31293196 ) - these people are not all necessarily extremists because "never" covers a lot of ground - that poll also found that 95% feel loyalty and 93% think that they should obey british laws ... I would thus say that the other 7% of the BBC poll are the extremists.

In short a moderate of any persuasion is defined by the OED as someone who is not a radical, and does not hold extreme views - in this context I would charecterise extreme views as believing that they shouldn't obey british law or that their loyalty is with IS/AQ rather than with Britain.

It is worth noting that some in Britain First also don't seem to believe that they should obey british law when it doesnt suit them , and are therefore just as bad as those they oppose.

Extremists of all hues are dangerous, and rightwing extremism is just as dangerous to society as extreme islam
 
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Well this has been interesting. There does seem to be a lot of deep rooted resentment of Muslims doesn't there?

I'm sure we can all agree that anyone who supports and extremist organisation or holds extremist views is a bit of a tool, yes?
I'm pretty sure everyone with half a brain knows that extremists are a tiny minority, yes?
 
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RichardtheSane said:
I'm sure we can all agree that anyone who supports and extremist organisation or holds extremist views is a bit of a tool, yes?
?
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Indeed - and that applies whether we are talking about suporting extreme islam or supporting extreme facsism

(I'm assuming you meant hugely outnumbered or tiny minority)
 
nilagin said:
It is a derogatory racist term, used to liken black people to apes.
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Did you ever find anything to back up this assertion? Or did you just unthinkingly make it up and hope to get away with it?
 
big soft moose said:
Indeed - and that applies whether we are talking about suporting extreme islam or supporting extreme facsism

(I'm assuming you meant hugely outnumbered or tiny minority)
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Cheeky edit :) Thanks for pointing that out.
 
big soft moose said:
I strongly suspect you are just trolling but to take it once more from the top

there aren't 24% who feel that the cartoons justify violence - in the NOP pole (for channel 4 dispatches) NOP charecterised 9% of those they interviwed as hard core islamists who believe terrorism is justified (source http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/291 ) - those 9% are clearly extremists and ergo not moderates. In the smaller BBC poll 24% disagreed with the statement that "such violence can never be justfied" (source http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31293196 ) - these people are not all necessarily extremists because "never" covers a lot of ground - that poll also found that 95% feel loyalty and 93% think that they should obey british laws ... I would thus say that the other 7% of the BBC poll are the extremists.

In short a moderate of any persuasion is defined by the OED as someone who is not a radical, and does not hold extreme views - in this context I would charecterise extreme views as believing that they shouldn't obey british law or that their loyalty is with IS/AQ rather than with Britain.

It is worth noting that some in Britain First also don't seem to believe that they should obey british law when it doesnt suit them , and are therefore just as bad as those they oppose.

Extremists of all hues are dangerous, and rightwing extremism is just as dangerous to society as extreme islam
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If 24% of people can justify acts of violence over a cartoon then I'd consider that extreme views. What level or scenario worthy of violence you think is acceptable for publishing a cartoon and still be considered a 'moderate Muslim' I don't know.

You seem to be using moderate in place of liberal or tolerant, but it isn't. A so called 'moderate Muslim' can and probably will still be extremely devout to some pretty extreme views on apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, honour, equality and gender segregation. Nothing moderate about it and certainly not to be confused with Christians or atheists etc. I don't think many Muslims would thank you for calling them 'moderate'.
 
Laudrup said:
If 24% of people can justify acts of violence over a cartoon then I'd consider that extreme views. What level or scenario worthy of violence you think is acceptable for publishing a cartoon and still be considered a 'moderate Muslim' I don't know.

You seem to be using moderate in place of liberal or tolerant, but it isn't. A so called 'moderate Muslim' can and probably will still be extremely devout to some pretty extreme views on apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, honour, equality and gender segregation. Nothing moderate about it and certainly not to be confused with Christians or atheists etc. I don't think many Muslims would thank you for calling them 'moderate'.
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We get it. You hate Muslims. That's ok. I hate Mancs. There are no moderate Mancs. All Mancs are horrible scumbags.

In no way is that stereotyping.

Get over yourself. We all know you like to write very long posts that you think illustrate your bigoted views (the thinking mans ST4 if you like) in a well thought out and reasoned way. They don't though. You are just an Islamaphobe. A particularly nasty one at that.
 
and how many muslims do you know personally ? ( I seem to recall the answer is slightly less than 1)

I'm not using the term moderate as a synonym for liberal or tolerant - i'm using it in the way it is intended to be used as the antonym of extremist.

The difference you seem to be failing to grasp is that thinking something is justified is not the same as actually doing it... by way of illustration personally I'm fairly happy that kneecapping nonces or indeed shooting them in the face could be justified in some circumstances... but that doesn't imply that i'm about to go on a vigilante murder spree. If 93% of Muslims feel loyalty to the UK and believe they should adhere to its laws then those people are not dangerous extremists regardless of what they may personally believe can be justified in some circumstances.

The other point about "certainly not to be confused with christians" shows how ignorant you are on the subject - do you really believe that there aren't christians with extremist views on homosexuality, adultery, etc - try reading up on the "army of god" "eastern Lightning" "the Lords Resistance Army" "The Covenant, Sword and Arm of the Lord" " The Phineas Priesthood" "the Concerned Christians" or "the Order"

I'm sure you like most christians will say that these people are headcases and not representative of your faith - this is true, but thats also exactly how most muslims feel about IS/AQ/Boko Haram etc
 
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