Brightness allowance on prints

Hell on earth

Hell on earth

Suspended / Banned
Messages
1,948
Name
Helen
Edit My Images
No
After calibrated and soft proofed on their paper profile, what allowance of light if any on final print ?

I just had some prints come back from DSCL that are -0.50 Darker <edit pretty even across the number of prints
is this reasonable paper v screen

H
 
Last edited:
Yes, their prints will come a little dimmer compared to what they look like on illuminated screen. You have to absolutely make sure your histogram runs all the way to the right. Well you more or less have to anyway...
 
daugirdas said:
Yes, their prints will come a little dimmer compared to what they look like on illuminated screen. You have to absolutely make sure your histogram runs all the way to the right. Well you more or less have to anyway...
Click to expand...
Thank you, I'm very happy with them, look very good on paper and I did think they world be a bit darker, just was not sure what is a reasonable amount .

H
 
sk66 said:
I noticed in your other thread that your image looks ~ 1/2 stop under...
This issue often happens due to display brightness setting and viewing conditions... even w/ a calibrated monitor.
Click to expand...
Yeah I need to use daylight bulbs, I'm not keen on using the ambient light change thing on the X-Rite ColorMunki Display

ATM my prints photo's don't have to be colour critical, but they do look very much the same as the screen apart from this 1/2 stop due to paper.
H
 
Last edited:
I don't use the ambient thing either, or daylight bulbs... I just adjust the brightness for the time of day. I *will* eventually get set up properly...

Another thing I've noticed is the BG in the editing program can make quite a difference in our perception of brightness. I have mine set to gray now (LR/PS) unless I have a specific output requirement (i.e. known website colors).
 
Hell on earth said:
Yeah I need to use daylight bulbs, I'm not keen on using the ambient light change thing on the X-Rite ColorMunki Display

ATM my prints photo's don't have to be colour critical, but they do look very much the same as the screen apart from this 1/2 stop due to paper.
H
Click to expand...

What brightness setting have you calibrated your monitor to?
 
WP D65
Lum 120cd/m\2
 
Last edited:
Hell on earth said:
Lum 120cd/m\2
Click to expand...

120cd is pretty bright and might be why the prints appear dark by comparison. If you take the monitor down to (say) 100cd your brain would get used to the new setting and you'd probably compensate by upping the images during the edit. This would/should get rid of the 0.50 difference you're getting now. Just a thought!

(PS. You could create a new 100cd calibration target and keep the existing 120cd target stored - that way you can switch back if it doesn't work).
 
Last edited:
Ozei said:
120cd is pretty bright and might be why the prints appear dark by comparison. If you take the monitor down to (say) 100cd your brain would get used to the new setting and you'd probably compensate by upping the images during the edit. This would/should get rid of the 0.50 difference you're getting now. Just a thought!

(PS. You could create a new 100cd calibration target and keep the existing 120cd target stored - that way you can switch back if it doesn't work).
Click to expand...
Thanks for that

H
 
Display luminance doesn't directly affect the print brightness - it affects what you see on screen which may lead to an incorrect edit of the image due to a screen problem not an image problem. 120mcd is good for a screen. In my opinion 100mcd is too low. Typically lower figures have been touted for use on laptops where power conservation is an issue. Lowering the screen luminance can increase batter life.

If the screen is accurately calibrated and profile - and yes don't use the 'adjust for ambient light' feature - then the most common cause is the disparity between using a screen that transmits light and viewing a print which reflects light from a source that's different in both colour temp and brightness at the print.

I set my screen to 120mcd/65K and use a daylight bulb of 65k and 98%CRI. My prints under this light always match the screen but once taken elsewhere can change.
 
Spuriousfish said:
Display luminance doesn't directly affect the print brightness - it affects what you see on screen which may lead to an incorrect edit of the image due to a screen problem not an image problem.
Click to expand...

Which is why histogram should be the first place for judging brightness. Screen brightness is less important - it simply needs to match the surroundings for convenient viewing and your eyes can adjust to that. I could think of scenarios where 120mcd is too little, but that is less likely in UK basements
 
Spuriousfish said:
120mcd is good for a screen. In my opinion 100mcd is too low.
Click to expand...

120cd is too bright on my setup (Eizo, ColorNavigator & CM Photo) and leads me to tone down the edit, which in turn produces prints that are too dark.

Obviously, the ideal brightness setting depends on the person, the monitor and the room lighting - Helen's setup might be ok at 120cd but mine is no good at that setting (I edit in a darkened room).

http://nativedigital.co.uk/site/2013/07/creating-calibration-targets-with-eizo-colornavigator/
 
Regarding the last 3 posts
This is why I asked if -0.50 was in reason. not an exact match, can you expect to get any exact match every time screen to paper

If I turn down the brightness, this in turn will turn it down in soft proofing, which may not change the degree of difference on the print, could still be a 1/2 stop under No?

H
 
I would not be happy if my prints came back 1/2 stop under... not at all. What matters is that your prints match what you expect them too...that's the whole point of calibrating in the first place (and lighting etc etc).

The reason I said I think your screen is too bright is because your image looked under on my screen.... that doesn't necessarily mean anything unless your prints come back under... and it seems they do.

When softproofing the histograms/ gamut warnings are probably more important. They tell you stuff about the print your monitor may not even be able to show you.
 
Hell on earth said:
If I turn down the brightness, this in turn will turn it down in soft proofing, which may not change the degree of difference on the print, could still be a 1/2 stop under No?
Click to expand...

I've tried soft proofing with DSCL's profiles (lustre and glossy) and Photoshop's histogram doesn't change at all when I switch between soft proofing off and soft proofing on. So if the image is 1/2 a stop under with soft proofing off it'll probably still be 1/2 a stop under with soft proofing on.
 
hi helen are you using lightroom or photoshop to edit your photos?
 
dinorock said:
hi helen are you using lightroom or photoshop to edit your photos?
Click to expand...
Mostly Lightroom5 and Elements 12, sometimes CS2
Soft proofing in Lightroom 5
Edit, soft proofing in CS2 looks the same as Lightroom
H
 
Last edited:
ok in lightroom >print module there is a brightness and contrast box at the bottom of the page @Matt kloskowski who is an adobe expert insists that if you print out of lightroom it will be slightly dark and should be increased slightly in this step. i assume this would apply if you were saving/sending to another user..."your print company" and he states its trial and error to get it how you like it. i print at home and have to up the brightness by 20 hth mike ps there is a vid by matt that shows this but i can't find it :bonk:
 
dinorock said:
ok in lightroom >print module there is a brightness and contrast box at the bottom of the page @Matt kloskowski who is an adobe expert insists that if you print out of lightroom it will be slightly dark and should be increased slightly in this step. i assume this would apply if you were saving/sending to another user..."your print company" and he states its trial and error to get it how you like it. i print at home and have to up the brightness by 20 hth mike ps there is a vid by matt that shows this but i can't find it :bonk:
Click to expand...
Hmm had a look and can't see any differance when moving the sliders :shrug:

H
 
Hell on earth said:
Hmm had a look and can't see any differance when moving the sliders :shrug:

H
Click to expand...
like i said its trial and error you don't see the change in lightroom which seems absolutely nuts to me but it works here at home so i'm assuming it would work on a saved file from the lightroom module. i'm still looking for the tutorial for you. :thumbs:
 
dinorock said:
like i said its trial and error you don't see the change in lightroom which seems absolutely nuts to me but it works here at home so i'm assuming it would work on a saved file from the lightroom module. i'm still looking for the tutorial for you. :thumbs:
Click to expand...
Yes just seen a youtube vid where it also says add about 30% brightness and 15% contrast but it does not change the on screen image
Thank you very much for that, will try it on my next prints :thumbs:

H
 
Hell on earth said:
Yes just seen a youtube vid where it also says add about 30% brightness and 15% contrast but it does not change the on screen image
Thank you very much for that, will try it on my next prints :thumbs:

H
Click to expand...
happy to help i had this problem when i started, all my prints were dark then found the vid and it cured it. :thumbs:
 
dinorock said:
happy to help i had this problem when i started, all my prints were dark then found the vid and it cured it. :thumbs:
Click to expand...
I just seen a way to view, save to print file after light adjustment then open it and it shows the change

H
 
Last edited:
I have found when I print my own, and let LR manage the color using a specific profile, then I need to bump the exposure a bit in the print module. Otherwise, I don't.
Does the print module actually make changes to an exported image? I didn't think so...
 
Well after all the fluffing around, it was the ambient light on the paper, got a daylight bulb today and there is no difference at all between profile and the print
So adjusting the brightness in print module profile depends on the lighting in whatever place the print will be on display and mostly that will to be a bit brighter, yes I know that should be obvious but I'm blond'ish

Edit, I should say this is just regarding DSCL printing profile and likely to be different on home printing and other
Thanks to Pookeyhead Dave for the tip about the bulb on another thread

H
 
Last edited:
Hell on earth said:
... can you expect to get any exact match every time screen to paper
...
Click to expand...

I use my colormunki, I adjust for ambient light, and when I print on my printer, then yes, my prints look identical when I hold it against the monitor (non-daylight spotlight bulbs in a terrible layout at the mo).

However, any other rooms, the perception changes.

Hell on earth said:
Edit, I should say this is just regarding DSCL printing profile and likely to be different on home printing and other
Thanks to Pookeyhead Dave for the tip about the bulb on another thread
Click to expand...

Assuming that you convert the image to the correct profile for the printer and the paper, then no, not really. There will be differences in the gamut that each printer/paper combination can print, but overall /brightness/ should in theory be constant between them if all the items are correctly profiled. (Ultimately the brightness is set against the 18% grey, same as the camera, the rest is contrast).


Pretty sure when I have used DSCL, I have put in a note which says I have colour managed and used their profile, but would appreciate it if they could check the brightness. Haven't had an issue with the colour/brightness of any of their prints. (I don't know whether they made any modifications though).
 
coldpenguin
I'm very happy with the match now I have better lighting to compare print to screen, it was not a brightness difference as I first thought
Any small, and I do mean small difference, can and I believe are (as you say) due to contrast, that will differ paper to paper, ink to ink and lighting or type of file or.... well a whole host of reasons

If near enough is good enough then good enough is near enough, it may well not sit well with some, but absolutes would be almost impossible for most of us and very very expensive

H
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top