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One more point for those that think about a 15 year old girl/woman/lady etc....

The human psyche must be the hardest thing to judge, as we know from our own experiences and we have set a law in this country of it being consenting at 16 (18 for child in a cared position (teacher etc)) yet other countries have it higher and lower, which is right?
 
tiler65 said:
One more point for those that think about a 15 year old girl/woman/lady etc....

The human psyche must be the hardest thing to judge, as we know from our own experiences and we have set a law in this country of it being consenting at 16 (18 for child in a cared position (teacher etc)) yet other countries have it higher and lower, which is right?
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It doesn't matter what's 'right', what other countries do or what we used to do in this country. People who choose to live in this country are bound by the laws that apply in this country, if they choose to break them then they have to suffer the consequences.

The consequences for her will be 15 minutes of fame and plenty of cred with her friends. For him, it will be a long prison sentence, the loss of his good name, the loss of his profession and any prospect of future employment in any occupation where he could come into contact with any vulnerable person.

That does seem harsh to me, but then he did choose to break the law, assuming that the allegations are true.
 
Garry Edwards said:
It doesn't matter what's 'right', what other countries do or what we used to do in this country. People who choose to live in this country are bound by the laws that apply in this country, if they choose to break them then they have to suffer the consequences.

The consequences for her will be 15 minutes of fame and plenty of cred with her friends. For him, it will be a long prison sentence, the loss of his good name, the loss of his profession and any prospect of future employment in any occupation where he could come into contact with any vulnerable person.

That does seem harsh to me, but then he did choose to break the law, assuming that the allegations are true.
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Garry, you are missing the point. I was making a point about human psyche/nature, not something easily justified by a law and possibly by 1 day/hour/minute/second. It wasn't that long ago that our consensual laws changed, so even we might have it wrong today!

As for serving a long prison sentence, I am not sure he will do 12 months, if convicted. So what is a long prison sentence?
 
One wee point to consider, just before this goes any further. I believe the wife is a photographer, so just in case she's a member here......
 
tiler65 said:
Something doesn't add up with this case.
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Probably nothing 'that' weird, Tom....wouldnt be surprised if they ran away because she is pregnant for example.
 
SnappyHappy said:
Probably nothing 'that' weird, Tom....wouldnt be surprised if they ran away because she is pregnant for example.
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I have failed miserably......it was a poor attempt at a pun.....(add up - maths teacher?)
 
One more point for those that think about a 15 year old girl/woman/lady etc....

The human psyche must be the hardest thing to judge, as we know from our own experiences and we have set a law in this country of it being consenting at 16 (18 for child in a cared position (teacher etc)) yet other countries have it higher and lower, which is right?
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It's an interesting and well made point.
For example, some will bleat on about pedophiles, but in many Countries, including those who emigrate to the UK, the age of consent is lower than 16, so culturally, they don't see it as pedophilia.
Also, many forget, or more probably wont admit, that after they had reached the age of 16, they had sex with a girl under that age. Of course that makes them a pedophile, certainly in legal terms.
 
What I find strange is this whole age of consent thing??? Have sex with a 15yo and you are a p****, at 16 its all ok (but you cant take a pic of it???) - Yet many other similar countries have lower ages - Denmark 15, France 15, Germany 14, Italy 14 (13 if less than 3 years age difference), Sweden 15 and Spain 13. Surely this is one thing you would have though the EU would have standardised?? What it proves though is that no-one really knows when someone should be allowed to have sex!

In Spain, the age of consent is set low, at 13: yet the average age of first sex for girls is 19 and for boys, 18. In Mali, the age of consent is 16, but most young people wait until a year later. In California, the age of consent is 18, but most have sex between 16 and 17. The age of consent in France, Sweden and Denmark is 15. In Italy and Canada, it is 14. In Japan, 13
 
cambsno said:
What I find strange is this whole age of consent thing??? Have sex with a 15yo and you are a p****, at 16 its all ok (but you cant take a pic of it???) - Yet many other similar countries have lower ages - Denmark 15, France 15, Germany 14, Italy 14 (13 if less than 3 years age difference), Sweden 15 and Spain 13. Surely this is one thing you would have though the EU would have standardised?? What it proves though is that no-one really knows when someone should be allowed to have sex!

In Spain, the age of consent is set low, at 13: yet the average age of first sex for girls is 19 and for boys, 18. In Mali, the age of consent is 16, but most young people wait until a year later. In California, the age of consent is 18, but most have sex between 16 and 17. The age of consent in France, Sweden and Denmark is 15. In Italy and Canada, it is 14. In Japan, 13
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I didn't know it varied so much in Europe. Not that I've ever really thought about - assumed there would be more consistency though.

It is a difficult one that as people are expected to mature at different rates in different cultures. No one age is going to be right for everyone - and people of any age can also be vulnerable. I also think the age / experience difference between the two parties has an influence.
 
cambsno said:
13 if less than 3 years age difference),
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This far more sensible than a fixed age, it's not really how old the couples are that folk get wound up about but the age spread.

In reply to somebody else, yes I would think the vast majority on here are sex offenders ;) not only if you 17 and she is 15, but if your both 15 then you both have broken the law and should be on the sex offenders list.
 
cambsno said:
What I find strange is this whole age of consent thing??? Have sex with a 15yo and you are a p****, at 16 its all ok (but you cant take a pic of it???) - Yet many other similar countries have lower ages - Denmark 15, France 15, Germany 14, Italy 14 (13 if less than 3 years age difference), Sweden 15 and Spain 13. Surely this is one thing you would have though the EU would have standardised?? What it proves though is that no-one really knows when someone should be allowed to have sex!
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I would argue that the person who knows when someone should be allowed to have sex is the one that wants to have sex. Not some politicians in Westminster, not some policemen with a copy of the Sexual Offences Act in their hand, not social workers and not the media. Obviously giving teenagers the ability to self determine their own sexual development without fear of criminalising their partners would create anarchy. Or something.


In another area of law regarding minors and consent, we have a perfectly good test for the medical emancipation of minors in this country, which means a 13 year old can potentially seek and obtain an abortion against the wishes of her parents (if, for example it is a Roman Catholic family). This is not set by statute but as a result of a decision by the law lords which creates a precedent. It sets no lower age limit at which a minor can on their own consent to medical teatment (or withold consent) against the wishes or without the knowledge of their parents / guardians, it simply requires that the minor is competent to make the decision in the opinion of the treating physician. How is it the Law Lords, portrayed by sections of the media as crusty old duffers out of touch with reality, can come up with a simple, common sense and fundamentally right solution, when our legislators can't?
 
I would argue that the person who knows when someone should be allowed to have sex is the one that wants to have sex. Not some politicians in Westminster, not some policemen with a copy of the Sexual Offences Act in their hand, not social workers and not the media.
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Up to a point I would agree with you, but there has to be a safeguard. For example the recent Rochdale case, and one currently going on from Oxford where much of the under age sex was going on with consent, albeit with drink and drugs involved which does invalidate that consent are cases in point.
Then there's the cases of people in positions of influence using that to gain access to the young person's underwear.
But in the main, people are far too fast to jump on the pedophile bandwagon, conveniently forgetting, in many cases their own past.
 
onomatopoeia said:
I would argue that the person who knows when someone should be allowed to have sex is the one that wants to have sex. Not some politicians in Westminster, not some policemen with a copy of the Sexual Offences Act in their hand, not social workers and not the media. Obviously giving teenagers the ability to self determine their own sexual development without fear of criminalising their partners would create anarchy. Or something.
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Agree 1,000,000%
 
Bernie174 said:
Up to a point I would agree with you, but there has to be a safeguard. For example the recent Rochdale case, and one currently going on from Oxford where much of the under age sex was going on with consent, albeit with drink and drugs involved which does invalidate that consent are cases in point.
Then there's the cases of people in positions of influence using that to gain access to the young person's underwear.
But in the main, people are far too fast to jump on the pedophile bandwagon, conveniently forgetting, in many cases their own past.
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Speak for yourself.
 
Bernie174 said:
Insightful and to the point as usual.
No, I speak from having had to deal with sexual offences. As opposed to a rosy tinted view of the world.
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Insulting and patronising as usual. You're not the only person who's dealt with offenders, nor are you the forum expert on "life in the raw". I don't view life through rose tinted spectacles, and if my posts are short and to the point, it's because I don't want to be drawn into yet another forensic examination of what this guy's done. p***? Probably not. Pillock, definitely.
 
malo50 said:
. p***? Probably not. Pillock, definitely.
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Pillock yes, but everybody is assuming he has been the instigator of all this, people forget the are some VERY manipulative and persuasive girls out there, let's not start throwing the mud before we know what went on.
 
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acetone said:
Pillock yes, but everybody is assuming he has been the instigator of all this, people forget the are some VERY manipulative and persuasive girls out there, let's not start throwing the mud before we know what went on.
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I'm not throwing mud at anyone. He's made a life decision to turn his back on his wife and career for a 15 year old girl. Regardless of who instigated what, I think that puts him firmly in the pillock camp. If she was the instigator he should have known better.
 
acetone said:
Pillock yes, but everybody is assuming he has been the instigator of all this, people forget the are some VERY manipulative and persuasive girls out there, let's not start throwing the mud before we know what went on.
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:clap: At around the age of 25 I was driving Taxis. I picked up a girl from a nearby chip shop who worked there in the evening on a Saturday, the owner would pay the fare. She had an hour glass figure and quite well blessed and also a real pretty girl, if I had to call the shots I would have guestimated 17-19. It was only a short distance to where she lived, as we approached the flats she was instructing me where to go. The buildings had a maze of walkways and different access point to each level, so if you did not know the area like I did then it was hard to find any flat #. We came to a halt at the back of many of the small blocks of garages, she turned to me and said if I did not have sex with her she would shout Rape!!. Before the days of kids having mobiles, straight away I called in and got my M8 on control to phone the police and report it. It turned out that she was only in fact 14, and also she was well known for her antics. It certainly made me aware of what could happen, after that I would only shag things that could produce a pension book :thumbs:
 
u8myufo said:
:clap: At around the age of 25 I was driving Taxis. I picked up a girl from a nearby chip shop who worked there in the evening on a Saturday, the owner would pay the fare. She had an hour glass figure and quite well blessed and also a real pretty girl, if I had to call the shots I would have guestimated 17-19. It was only a short distance to where she lived, as we approached the flats she was instructing me where to go. The buildings had a maze of walkways and different access point to each level, so if you did not know the area like I did then it was hard to find any flat #. We came to a halt at the back of many of the small blocks of garages, she turned to me and said if I did not have sex with her she would shout Rape!!. Before the days of kids having mobiles, straight away I called in and got my M8 on control to phone the police and report it. It turned out that she was only in fact 14, and also she was well known for her antics. It certainly made me aware of what could happen, after that I would only shag things that could produce a pension book :thumbs:
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Knowing some 14 year olds....they steal pension books too...I hope you never regret anything now!
 
Dear Jim, can you fix it for me to go on holiday with a girl in my class? From Jeremy Forrest, aged 30.
 
In more than one report I've seen it's said he was a music teacher not maths - the details generally seem a bit spurious.
 
neil_g said:
i think they should conduct a full investigation into which it is

:gag:
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I'm just saying that there's a significant difference in the 'position of trust' between her regular maths teacher and a peripatetic music teacher who may only be in the school for a couple of hours a week.
(of course I'm not defending his incredibly foolish actions!)
 
TopBanana said:
I'm just saying that there's a significant difference in the 'position of trust' between her regular maths teacher and a peripatetic music teacher who may only be in the school for a couple of hours a week.
(of course I'm not defending his incredibly foolish actions!)
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Conduct (orchestra) :)
 
TopBanana said:
I'm just saying that there's a significant difference in the 'position of trust' between her regular maths teacher and a peripatetic music teacher who may only be in the school for a couple of hours a week.
(of course I'm not defending his incredibly foolish actions!)
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...however flip that around, and the music teacher is likely to have a far better and more intimate relationship with his/her pupil than a maths teacher is.

Another slight thing puzzles me:

Why on earth is anyone talking about paedophilia? It just doesn't apply in this case.
 
DemiLion said:
...however flip that around, and the music teacher is likely to have a far better and more intimate relationship with his/her pupil than a maths teacher is.

Another slight thing puzzles me:

Why on earth is anyone talking about paedophilia? It just doesn't apply in this case.
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I agree. To me, a paedophile is someone who preys on pre-pubescent children, not someone who has an illicit relationship with a sexually mature but under age person
 
Dont know why P**** was mentioned (was it?) - still, he's heading to The Register no doubt and rightly so. She's 15, underage - thats the law, no debate. No matter what he's teaching/how much lipstick she's wearing, hard facts in this case.

Wonder what her dad thinks should be done with him. Probably best he's in the hands of the law ;)
 
SnappyHappy said:
Dont know why P**** was mentioned (was it?) - still, he's heading to The Register no doubt and rightly so. She's 15, underage - thats the law, no debate. No matter what he's teaching/how much lipstick she's wearing, hard facts in this case.

Wonder what her dad thinks should be done with him. Probably best he's in the hands of the law ;)
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But, try and think about your own and possibly millions of other teenagers when we were 14 & 15, should we all be classed as paedos too or be put on the sex offenders register?
 
Didnt say anything about paedos. The law states 16 and thats it. Its there to keep a boundary/maintain a safe standard like any other age limit for anything - tattoos, booze, driving....over that age, make your decisions....age gap is different, so dont want to bring that to the debate as everyone has different views on whats morrally acceptable, but age limit is a hard limit, not a moral limit.
 
SnappyHappy said:
Didnt say anything about paedos. The law states 16 and thats it. Its there to keep a boundary/maintain a safe standard like any other age limit for anything - tattoos, booze, driving....over that age, make your decisions....age gap is different, so dont want to bring that to the debate as everyone has different views on whats morrally acceptable, but age limit is a hard limit, not a moral limit.
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So do we have the age limit right in the UK or does Spain or Denmark or Sweden or the USA?

Would you say it is wrong at 15 years 364 days?

All laws no matter what they are need to have some leeway for exceptional circumstances. Even driving under the influence has a leeway.
 
Not for me to say if its right or wrong, its the rules we stick to in this country and thats about it really. Not interested in sweden, dont kmow their rules, and dont need to as its not their game i play by.

You are still 15 even if you are 15 and 364 days. Thats kind of the point with hard limit laws - there is a dividing line and everyone knows where that line is - no ifs/buts. Sorry officer, too many beers, but it leaves my system quicker than most....just give us 20 mins...you are either driving drunk or not against a pre determined limit - if you are THEN there are grades to determine punishment. First offence, 20 x over etc etc...

Its cut and dry, there is no debate here, dress it up how you want, but he's stepped over the line, the line that protects kids from adults in UK sex law.
 
SnappyHappy said:
Not for me to say if its right or wrong, its the rules we stick to in this country and thats about it really. . Sorry officer, too many beers, but it leaves my system quicker than most....just give us 20 mins...you are either driving drunk or not against a pre determined limit - if you are THEN there are grades to determine punishment. First offence, 20 x over etc etc...
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You are so wrong. There is leeway when testing positive for a DUI offense.
 
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