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nicholasgn

nicholasgn

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been looking at profoto B1's for when I win the lottery,as the bulb is enclosed and the light emits from the front only,kinda like a speed light,does this mean it isnt as good at evenly dispersing light around , say ,a soft box,in comparison with lights where the bulb is exposed and light can emit from the bulbs entire surface area directly into modifier ??
 
nicholasgn said:
been looking at profoto B1's for when I win the lottery,as the bulb is enclosed and the light emits from the front only,kinda like a speed light,does this mean it isnt as good at evenly dispersing light around , say ,a soft box,in comparison with lights where the bulb is exposed and light can emit from the bulbs entire surface area directly into modifier ??
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The problems with speedlites tend to be overplayed by some manufacturers, just as they're skated over by others ;)

The advantages of the Profoto design (doesn't apply to all products) is a very neat unit with no need for a spill-kill reflector, and a very accurate modelling lamp. It's also key to their 'zoom' head feature. For those modifiers that really benefit from a bare bulb, Profoto makes a simple clip-on diffuser dome.
 
nicholasgn said:
does this mean it isnt as good at evenly dispersing light around , say ,a soft box,in comparison with lights where the bulb is exposed and light can emit from the bulbs entire surface area directly into modifier ??
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•

Yes, it does…

I have been using 3x D1, 2x B2 and 2x B1 (all with enclosed
flash tubes) very successfully but some things have to be clear:

— all my D1 and B1 heads are fitted with a frosted glass domes
http://profoto.com/int/products/accessories/item/glass-cover-d1-frosted
with this, all soft boxes will work the right way. All reflectors too!​
— if you want to do without the frosted glass domes, you'll have to go for the
included inner baffle​
— for any other use like grids etc, the enclosed flash tubes is the better solution.
 
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nicholasgn said:
been looking at profoto B1's for when I win the lottery,as the bulb is enclosed and the light emits from the front only,kinda like a speed light,does this mean it isnt as good at evenly dispersing light around , say ,a soft box,in comparison with lights where the bulb is exposed and light can emit from the bulbs entire surface area directly into modifier ??
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It's not a problem for most modifiers but it's probably not your first choice for use with a beauty dish.
 
simonbarker said:
it's probably not your first choice for use with a beauty dish.
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•

Really? You can't be serious…

I have the Profoto Silver Softlight reflector since years.
I used it first on the Pro Head Plus with good results and
I used it on the D1, B1 and B2, it is with the same pleasure.

Silver%20Softlight%20reflector.png
http://profoto.com/int/products/lig...rd-reflectors/item/softlight-reflector-silver

My only problem was to take it on location. Its metal light
weight construction makes it ideal for that type of work but
the downside is that it could be damaged easily if knocked
or dropped.

Earlier this year, Profoto brought out the new OCF 2' silver
beauty dish I bought some ten days ago but haven't had the
time to play with yet!. Built like a shallower Octa (very light &
strong) with the difference that it has a central deflector like
all soft lights. The unit may be knocked or dropped without
consequence as it is strong enough to protect a dropped B2
head attached to it.

NOTE: though compatible with all flash heads, no OCF is
made to operate with heat generating modelling bulbs.

ocf_beauty_dish_silver2.jpg

http://profoto.com/int/off-camera-flash-light-shaping-tools/item/ocf-beauty-dishes

This OCF Beauty Dish will be the on-location tool and the
other will stay safe (I hope!) in studio.
 
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If the ProPhoto frosted dome is designed correctly so as to evenly cast light in all directions (i.e. graduated frosting) then it would be as good or better than a bare bulb. I have no experience with them, but I have no reason to suspect they are not.
It's not like all bare bulb designs/shapes are equal either...
 
Kodiak Qc said:
•
I have the Profoto Silver Softlight reflector since years.
I used it first on the Pro Head Plus with good results and
I used it on the D1, B1 and B2, it is with the same pleasure.

Silver%20Softlight%20reflector.png
Click to expand...
*If* that's the light pattern actually emitted by that combination, then it's **very bad**...
but I doubt it is... I really hope not...
 
sk66 said:
*If* that's the light pattern actually emitted by that combination, then it's **very bad**...
but I doubt it is... I really hope not...
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•


That's a very strong (and too vague) statement,
Steven, from someone admittedly without expe-
rience, … like saying something without having
said it.

Pro Photo is a company with committed R&D,
so the engineers and designers working there
have my trust when it comes to new products
introductions.

Now, just think… if ever they deceive the pros,
they are dead ducks. Then these pros are their
B&B and the base of their future business. These
Scandinavians are devoted and not suicidal.

A cheaper product may always count on "well,
at that price, you have to accept compromises!"
Pro Photo knows very well it cannot count on that
and doen't. Bron neither.
 
sk66 said:
*If* that's the light pattern actually emitted by that combination, then it's **very bad**..but I doubt it is... I really hope not...
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To me, this has the same value as:

Today, North Korea or China or Zimbabue will
launch a nuclear attack on Europe, then it's
**very bad**... but I doubt it is... I really hope not...

Hence my reply:
Kodiak Qc said:
That's a very strong (and too vague) statement,
Click to expand...

 
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No, I said *IF*...
In a discussion of filling modifiers (or otherwise) I don't know what other purpose the image serves other than to show what it looks like lit up...
 
sk66 said:
*If* that's the light pattern actually emitted by that combination, then it's **very bad**...
but I doubt it is... I really hope not...
Click to expand...

That's just the catalogue product shot, lit by something else it seems. Quite a few examples floating around the 'net showing it appears to work fine (when combined with that extra dome of course).
 
simonbarker said:
You have to buy an expensive dome to 'fix' the design flaw.
Click to expand...
I think you are not aware of the brilliant development
behind the idea.
simonbarker said:
I stand by my earlier comment, it's probably not your first choice for use with a beauty dish.
Click to expand...
I have both systems: with and without enclosed flash tube.
Though slightly different, the enclosed version has no reason
to be shy…
Jayst84 said:
That's just the catalogue product shot, lit by something else it seems.
Click to expand...
You got that one right, James!
 
Kodiak Qc said:
I think you are not aware of the brilliant development
behind the idea!
Click to expand...

The idea being that the light does not work how you expect a studio light to work unless you buy an additional extra piece of kit? That's clever? well it is if you make money from selling the extra bit I suppose

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
The idea being that the light does not work how you expect a studio light to work unless you buy an additional extra piece of kit? That's clever? well it is if you make money from selling the extra bit I suppose. Mike
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•


What if, just what if…

— the great results produced to date with the unenclosed tube
were not the best possible?
— the newer D1, B1, and B2 enclosed flash tube is the better
approach to deflected light in the case of the softlight reflector?
—

The D1 and B1 heads may be fitted with the frosted glass dome
and I do when even I use them in the Magnum or the NarrowBeam
Reflectors for example. But with the traditional metal softlight reflector,
sometimes I will prefer not to use it as I get a crispier result under
given conditions.

I have yet to test the new OCF softlight. With glass on the D1 or B1
and without on the D1, B1 or B2. On any of these heads, the results
will be the same as they all have enclosed flash bulbs and only the
output power will change.

Sometimes, I can't help it, I get the feeling that some very strong
opinions, assumptions or recommendations are not based on actual
experience but rather highly speculative guesses.
 
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It's hard to argue against Profoto - widely acknowledged as amongst the best, if not actually the best.

It certainly wouldn't put me off buying, in fact on balance I rather like it - upsides and downsides, but with such an easy fix. What's the problem? Best of both worlds IMHO.
 
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HoppyUK said:
It's hard to argue against Profoto - widely acknowledged as amongst the best, if not actually the best.

It certainly wouldn't put me off buying, in fact on balance I rather like it - upsides and downsides, but with such an easy fix. What's the problem? Best of both worlds IMHO.
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I would tend to agree... I don't think there is a "perfect answer" out there, if it works for you that's all that really matters.

But, just like putting a diffusion dome on a speedlight doesn't "fix" the issue, it doesn't seem like the glass dome "fixes" the issue w/ the ProFotos either. This is the pattern it creates w/ the D1.
(from Martin Bailey's website)
MBP_Lighting_20110515_3018.jpg


That's not to say the "issue" is a "problem." It quite likely will not be... I don't think I've ever seen a source/modifier that is completely even. And I should note that is the inner diffuser, the pattern at the outer diffusion will certainly be somewhat different and almost certainly *more* even.
And it would be a mistake to consider this image, or even an image of the front diffusion (if you could find/take one), as being "the pattern of light the strobe makes." In many/most ways it is the reflector in use that matters *much* more in determining the character of light created.

Personally, I can't see an "advantage" to the internal bulb other than maybe added protection... the overall design/function though, I definitely see some benefits.
 
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Kodiak Qc said:
I think you are not aware of the brilliant development behind the idea.
Click to expand...

What brilliant development are you referring to? If it's such a wonderful design why do they continue to sell Pro heads with a normal exposed bulb design?

Kodiak Qc said:
I have both systems: with and without enclosed flash tube.
Though slightly different, the enclosed version has no reason to be shy…
Click to expand...

As do I and I can see no advantage to having to spend £100 extra on a protruding glass dome which means I have to waste time fitting it (and probably need to remove for travel) as I assume the brilliant design you mention means most of the time you aren't using that dome right? It's a poor solution to an issue that need never happened, you could make a good argument for the design being preferable for location work but where's the justification anywhere else?

Are you seriously telling me if you wanted to use those kind of modifiers and had the choice between a D1 with the recessed tube and one with a normal Profoto glass dome you'd opt for the recessed version?
 
Would'nt the reflector dish in a beauty dish lend itself for even illumination even with a speed light or B1 ? I thought the main concern would be evenly lighting a large soft box or strip soft box, I didnt know about the dome attachment,I guess that would solve the possible problem then.
 
nicholasgn said:
Would'nt the reflector dish in a beauty dish lend itself for even illumination even with a speed light or B1 ?
Click to expand...
It deflects the light it receives. So using a speedlight
I would recommend the slide out diffusor on its head.
The B1 will be of no concern in this matter.
nicholasgn said:
I thought the main concern would be evenly lighting a large soft box or strip soft box
Click to expand...
I, personally, only use the D1 and B1 with frosted domes
in any softbox (whatever the shape) or umbrella except
the shoot through.
 
nicholasgn said:
Would'nt the reflector dish in a beauty dish lend itself for even illumination even with a speed light or B1 ?
Click to expand...
In normal use/position the deflector directs the forward traveling light to the back of the reflector, not evenly filling the reflector... that is done by the light from a bare bulb that travels in those directions. The main problem with a directional source (speedlight) is that much more of the light can (may) directly bypass the deflector which creates a bright "direct flash ring" towards the perimeter of the spread. It's also not the "right" light source for most designs which may be bad/indifferent (generally bad).

This is all very specific to design/placement and there are usually adjustments that can be made to modify/refine the results. With a speedlight it may be better to reverse the domed deflector and move it inwards (toward the flash). This will likely create more of a ringlight type effect and a shorter focusing distance... but the results might be better than otherwise. And it can be combined with a diffusion dome/screen to help fill the rest of the dish... or maybe just a dome/screen might be best.
 
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