Bottle lighting

[cargo]

Hi all.
X factor last night. Better half likes to watch, lost the will to live towards the end. Didnt know what to do but remembered a tutorial Mr Edwards had done.
So had a go.
I was happy a got a photo in the short time I had.
Would love to get feedback on how to improve this.

Gaz.

 

[Somersetman]

That looks pretty amazing to me - I'd be very pleased if I were you!

 

[CraigDHD]

It's a good attempt Gary, like the colour combinations with the background. I love beverage photography and it's something I keep meaning to do more of to get better at since checking out robbb grimm and karl taylors stuff. For some inspiration there's a good overview here from a promo for the karl taylor product photography dvd series lighting a whiskey bottle.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIm-SZHKOW4


My critique which may seem a bit negative but isn't intended to put you off as it's a good shot. The highlights down the bottle are a bit sharp, rather than shooting with just the softboxes try to put a scrim between the light close in to the bottle either a big sheet of tracing paper or a large 5 in 1 reflector with the cover removed. The highlights are also a bit thick and far off the edges you want the highlight close in on the edge and fading off ideally to add shape.

The highlight on the neck covers the text, I'd have been tempted to shoot this twice rotating the bottle to get the text centered and composite the two together for this bottle.

The bottle looks a bit dead either a back light or some reflectors would be good to bring some vibrance in to the liquid and make the bottle pop a bit more.

You've got some shadows casting through from the back of the bottle from labels. If you're shooting bottles it's best to remove all the rear labels, the quickect way is with a razor blade or stanley style blade flat against the bottle then a wee bit of sticky stuff remover if you're a perfectionist.

There's some funny shaped light bits, caused by imperfections in the shape of the bottle, you could probably minimize these through meticulous lighting but I'd work on just retouching them out, dust and scratch filters in photoshop ar great for getting small imperfections in bottles. Check phlearn for some good retouching stuff.

keep going with them anyway I love lighting products, wish I had more time for it

 

[ianp5a]

I think it needs a touch of rim lighting to pull the bottle away from the table surface.

 

[cargo]

That looks pretty amazing to me - I'd be very pleased if I were you!

Thanks Greg. I was happy with the attempt but knew it had problems that said looking at this now. I know when I joined this forum I would not have been able to take this photo so I have learn't some stuff along the way.

My critique which may seem a bit negative but isn't intended to put you off as it's a good shot

No No it's not taken in a bad way. I knew it was not perfect in any way.I was happy that I set it up and hit the floor running added each light as I went and eneded up here with little effort.
That said I was aware the softbox reflection needed to be further back but was unsure as how to do that. The boxes are 80 x 80 to the right and 60x60 to the left about 15 inches away from product (speedlights in both) I had the back edge of the boxes sort of inline with the bottle.I did move them forwrds a bit but that brought the reflection forwards. If I send them backwards wouldnt I be then lighting the background too? I lit that with a bare gelled speedlight.
Yes the bottle is dimpled but I don't think I showed that very well :-(

Great reply will check the video out.

I think it needs a touch of rim lighting to pull the bottle away from the table surface.

Thanks for the feedbackand tips.

Gaz

 

[Garry Edwards]

There are many different ways of lighting bottles, and you've made a good effort.
Craig has made some good suggestions, except that the correct term for a sheet of diffusion material is a silk, not a scrim - unless you're American of course, they use "Silk" when they mean scrim.
That really isn't an easy type of bottle to start with, an easy one is one with a surface that isn't as shiny and which has straight lines. But even with that bottle, there's a lot that could be done..

1. Photograph it square on, not looking down on it.
2. Get the softboxes square on too, they too are angled down.
3. Get the softboxes much closer and back a bit, so that they just light the very edges. Getting them close enough usually involves standing the bottle on what is essentially a post, anything bigger is usually too big.
4. Craig says that you need to remove the labels on the back of the bottle, which is correct. You also need to light the label on the front. Assuming that you don't have a focussing spotlight for that, use a piece of Cinefoil with the label shape (but smaller) cut out of it.

 

[cargo]

Cheers Gary. Have an hour free will try and put some of the tips given in the above posts into practice. Hope there is some improvement.
One thing I have struggled with is shooting angle. When I think I am shooting straight on it apears i'm looking down :-(

Gaz

 

[CraigDHD]

If you've got a "the range" shop near buy nip in for some white a black mount boards and some reflective gold and silver card for flags and reflectors. They're great for building and controlling light for these types of shots in the cheap.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Cheers Gary. Have an hour free will try and put some of the tips given in the above posts into practice. Hope there is some improvement.
One thing I have struggled with is shooting angle. When I think I am shooting straight on it apears i'm looking down :-(

Gaz

Well, you can try again - there was a warning on TV just now, your other half's programme will be on again at 8 tonight

Getting the camera straight is easy. Assuming that the bottle is sitting on something solid, just positon the camera so that you're just seeing the edge of it, it is then square - then raise it up just a fraction so that you don't have a hard line running across the bottom of the bottle.

 

[cargo]

If you've got a "the range" shop near buy nip in for some white a black mount boards and some reflective gold and silver card for flags and reflectors. They're great for building and controlling light for these types of shots in the cheap.

Thanks Craig good tip ;-)

Well, you can try again - there was a warning on TV just now, your other half's programme will be on again at 8 tonigh

Like it.
I fancied the Show on after that which turned out not to shabby. Anyways more than I can say for my bottle lighting efforts :-( I upload anyway as it's only fair you guys are taking the time to give feedback. I got real frustrated and felt like I was clutching at straws in the end as I could not get a narrow strip of highlight down the bottle edges. I swapped the base for a narrow one a slate I had in the garden shed this allowed me to get the boxes closer, even so I just could not get the graduated highlight. So I tried the reflector diffusion method which spread the light but I couldnt tell if I was on the right track either. If I moved the boxes back or forwards I just couldnt get a narrow highlight.
I've upload 2 images here as I think one as the light more forwards and one more towards the back. I have removed the rear label and put some foil on card shaped to the bottle behind.
Thats all I had that was reflective. Didnt have another speedlight to light the label and maybe best not to until I can get the basics correct.
Please say if i'm going in the wrong direction with this.

Jeez you can sure mess up a place trying to photograph a bottle !!!

Gaz

1

2

 

[Garry Edwards]

The camera is still too high, but it's much better, especially the first of the two.
But the light is still wrapping arround far too much for my personal taste - move the lights back and angle them so that they are lighting the edges rather than the front and the edges.
I now know that you don't have strip softboxes, so turn them into strip softboxes by reducing their width. The standard tool for this is Cinefoil (blackwrap) but if you don't have that then black paper will do, or black bin bags.

 

[Phil V]

The camera is still too high, but it's much better, especially the first of the two.
But the light is still wrapping arround far too much for my personal taste - move the lights back and angle them so that they are lighting the edges rather than the front and the edges.
I now know that you don't have strip softboxes, so turn them into strip softboxes by reducing their width. The standard tool for this is Cinefoil (blackwrap) but if you don't have that then black paper will do, or black bin bags.

I meant to say this yesterday, a black bin bag and 4 clothes pegs will turn a softbox into a strip softbox.

 

[cargo]

I meant to say this yesterday, a black bin bag and 4 clothes pegs will turn a softbox into a strip softbox.

Cheers Phil. Tried this in this last try. I'm worn out with this now and need to drink it
I'm not sure I can do any better :-(

The camera is still too high, but it's much better, especially the first of the two.
But the light is still wrapping arround far too much for my personal taste - move the lights back and angle them so that they are lighting the edges rather than the front and the edges.
I now know that you don't have strip softboxes, so turn them into strip softboxes by reducing their width. The standard tool for this is Cinefoil (blackwrap) but if you don't have that then black paper will do, or black bin bags.

Hi Gary.
Did the strip box thing and lowered the camera hope that as made a differance. I have also had a go at lighting the label after removing the red gelled flash to the rear and then compositing later, again I hope this as improved the photo.In all honesty I am not sure wether improvement from first to last photo is significant and am sure that is half my problem. I can see the lighting is much softer and the bottle looks more 3d.

Gaz

 

[CraigDHD]

Looks much better gaz

 

[Phil V]

That's a huge improvement.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Well, the camera is still too high and the softboxes are still lighting too much of the front, and they are still too far away from the bottle - IMO. But it is all opinion, and I agree, your latest effor is a massive improvement.

You've gone from a first effort that was... mediocre at best, to a stage where the law of diminishing returns kicks in, i.e. it now takes a lot more thought to create fairly small improvements.

 

[cargo]

Thanks all.
Your help as been much appreciated.

Well, the camera is still too high and the softboxes are still lighting too much of the front, and they are still too far away from the bottle - IMO. But it is all opinion, and I agree, your latest effor is a massive improvement.

You've gone from a first effort that was... mediocre at best, to a stage where the law of diminishing returns kicks in, i.e. it now takes a lot more thought to create fairly small improvements.

Evening Gary.
As you can see I think I have reached my best and have to admit defeat. Happy to hear that the end result after a certain point is down to taste and what mood/look you want to achieve.
Re: the camera height : I am judging camera height by the horizon/base line is this correct ? If so there can't be much lower to go. If you get chance and fancy helping me out could you show me (an image) the correct height. No problem if not i'm sure you have lots of other things to do with your time

Thanks for the feedback.

Gaz

 

[cargo]

Before tidying up earlier I took these 2 with the boxes closer still. With/without diffusion.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Getting better
Let's go back a bit... when show offs like me demonstrate how to do it we use a bottle that's easy, and this one isn't!
An 'easy' bottle
1. Has a matt finish, this one doesn't
2. Is straight, this one flares out at the bottom
3. Doesn't have any dimples or other changes to its texture

You haven't got the light completely even on each side, but it's pretty good considering.

The one thing that really jumps out here is the lack of light on the label. I would light it using a focussing spotlight, this has 4 shutters that are adjusted to create exactly the right size and shape of light, but very few people have one of these One workaround is to shine a flash head through a piece of Cinecoil that has a gobo of the right size and shape cut into it, but it isn't anywhere near as good as a focussing spotlight of course.

The other workaround (better for you) to to take a separate shot with far more exposure and simply comp the label part of it onto the bottle.

 

[cargo]

Let's go back a bit... when show offs like me demonstrate how to do it we use a bottle that's easy, and this one isn't!
An 'easy' bottle
1. Has a matt finish, this one doesn't
2. Is straight, this one flares out at the bottom
3. Doesn't have any dimples or other changes to its texture

It's your profession so every right to show off
Trust me to pick an hard bottle. Then again I suppose the design is what captures your eye. Yes strange I couldnt get them spot on the same either side.
With pushing the lights back as you say you do not get that wrap around which was helping to light the front and with the boxes and stuff so close I was not sure how to go about correcting that. I did fire my last speedlight onto the front angled down at low power for one last frame. Still needed a curves adjustment to brighten a touch though.
Thanks for taking the time.

Gaz

 

[markyboy.1967]

It's a good attempt Gary, like the colour combinations with the background. I love beverage photography and it's something I keep meaning to do more of to get better at since checking out robbb grimm and karl taylors stuff. For some inspiration there's a good overview here from a promo for the karl taylor product photography dvd series lighting a whiskey bottle.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIm-SZHKOW4


My critique which may seem a bit negative but isn't intended to put you off as it's a good shot. The highlights down the bottle are a bit sharp, rather than shooting with just the softboxes try to put a scrim between the light close in to the bottle either a big sheet of tracing paper or a large 5 in 1 reflector with the cover removed. The highlights are also a bit thick and far off the edges you want the highlight close in on the edge and fading off ideally to add shape.

The highlight on the neck covers the text, I'd have been tempted to shoot this twice rotating the bottle to get the text centered and composite the two together for this bottle.

The bottle looks a bit dead either a back light or some reflectors would be good to bring some vibrance in to the liquid and make the bottle pop a bit more.

You've got some shadows casting through from the back of the bottle from labels. If you're shooting bottles it's best to remove all the rear labels, the quickect way is with a razor blade or stanley style blade flat against the bottle then a wee bit of sticky stuff remover if you're a perfectionist.

There's some funny shaped light bits, caused by imperfections in the shape of the bottle, you could probably minimize these through meticulous lighting but I'd work on just retouching them out, dust and scratch filters in photoshop ar great for getting small imperfections in bottles. Check phlearn for some good retouching stuff.

keep going with them anyway I love lighting products, wish I had more time for it

This will help me quite a bit as I work within the whisky industry and Balvenie is one of the bottles I'm photographing in the morning and will try this out over the coming weeks.Thanks.

 

[cargo]

I'm photographing in the morning

Hi Mark how did the whisky bottle photograph go ?

Gaz

 

[markyboy.1967]

Ended up i was to take images for some promo stuff of the full process for a new bottle and bew label for wm Grants. Sorry cant put images up as they are hush hush just now.

 

[markyboy.1967]

It's your profession so every right to show off
Trust me to pick an hard bottle. Then again I suppose the design is what captures your eye. Yes strange I couldnt get them spot on the same either side.
With pushing the lights back as you say you do not get that wrap around which was helping to light the front and with the boxes and stuff so close I was not sure how to go about correcting that. I did fire my last speedlight onto the front angled down at low power for one last frame. Still needed a curves adjustment to brighten a touch though.
Thanks for taking the time.

Gaz

Wait until you need to do the Wm Grant signature bottles... Arrrgghhhhh