BNP and what's happened to democracy?

[welly]

Can I as a white person join The National Black Police Officers Association (if i where a police officer) or maybe The Association of Muslim Lawyers (if I where a lawyer) Why to they need to segregate themselves from the rest of us. I have many black and asian friends but I don't see them as being different.

It's not about segregating themselves. Would you (and I'm presuming here) as an able bodied person want to or need to join an organisation representing disabled/less abled people? Would you as a sighted person want to or need to join a support group for blind people? Conversely, would you as a sighted person need an association that represents people who can see? Or would you as a person with two legs need an association that represents people who have two legs? There's a thread on the disabled photographers society (http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=135136). Do you feel the need to join them? Do you feel that there should be a non-disabled photographers society?

Now I'm not comparing black people with the disabled or blind (before anyone suggests that!) but like the disabled and the blind, they're a minority and as such their views and needs are not necessarily as well represented as white police officers, nurses or lawyers. This is the reason for these associations, not for reasons of segregation.

 

[dapprman]

Finland :shrug:

(I only have to name 1 right? its quite a long list you see )

I know nothing about Finland (aside from ~1/5th of it being part of Russia) - can I ask a friend (I must know some one over there from some online game )

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

I'm sure your quite capable of looking those statistics up for yourself

I'm sure that since you're making outlandish claims, the burden of proof falls on you, actually.

 

[Gary]

is that a padlock i see coming towards us?

 

[Kev M]

they're a minority and as such their views and needs are not necessarily as well represented as white police officers, nurses or lawyers.

But there's nobody to represent the views of the white people is there? Apart from the whiteys themselves that is. Perhaps people who join these groups like being in an exclusive little club and in fact they should make more of an effort just getting on with the job. They should stop thinking of themselves as black police officers (etc etc) and just start thinking of themselves as police officers.

Illegal immigrants are no more of a problem than the legal ones. The legal ones are the ones who can claim the benefits on the illegals. Immigration is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Uncontrolled immigration is a bad thing and something Comrade Stalin and the rest of the commies have been ignoring whilst the work out how big a TV they can get past the claims office.

People are concerned about immigration levels and whilst most people don't even bother with learning about the BNP constitution or the majority of the policies they have (which would have precluded most of our olympians from representing us in China) they do promise to address one of the major areas of concern people have.

People shouldn't blame the BNP for being where they are they should blame the weak moderate parties for giving them ground to move into.

 

[TG.]

I'm sure that since you're making outlandish claims, the burden of proof falls on you, actually.

Pretty much fact abu hamza and abu quatada didn't do a days work since they came into the country to name but a couple, but were happy not only to claim benefits but slag us all off and protest it was there right, as the rest of us were just Kaffirs, and by your reaction i feel i have to ask are you saying you have sympathy with these extremists then ?

 

[TG.]

But there's nobody to represent the views of the white people is there? Apart from the whiteys themselves that is. Perhaps people who join these groups like being in an exclusive little club and in fact they should make more of an effort just getting on with the job. They should stop thinking of themselves as black police officers (etc etc) and just start thinking of themselves as police officers.

Illegal immigrants are no more of a problem than the legal ones. The legal ones are the ones who can claim the benefits on the illegals. Immigration is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Uncontrolled immigration is a bad thing and something Comrade Stalin and the rest of the commies have been ignoring whilst the work out how big a TV they can get past the claims office.

People are concerned about immigration levels and whilst most people don't even bother with learning about the BNP constitution or the majority of the policies they have (which would have precluded most of our olympians from representing us in China) they do promise to address one of the major areas of concern people have.

People shouldn't blame the BNP for being where they are they should blame the weak moderate parties for giving them ground to move into.

Great post, and spot on

 

[Cobra]

<snip>, BUT people are sick and tired of being ignored by this government and other main stream parties on what they consider important issue's ie immigration being a very big issue, i consider myself working class, i work for a company who employ 45% of immigrants, to hear some of the conversations that take place at work i can understand why people feel the way they do,<snip>.

Good post Tel

Aww, nothing like a bit of conjecture. Show me the numbers.

A quick google will provide all the info you require
Names are mostly kept secret as I guess it would ruin years
of man hours and hundreds and thousands of pounds in resources
if they were published
but a quick random snip..................

A year ago Jonathan Evans, the director general of MI5, said in a speech that his organisation had identified that there were at least 2,000 individuals who posed a threat to national security and public safety.

Since 2001, over 1,200 terrorist suspect have been arrested, over 140 have been charged and more than 45 have been convicted of terrorism offences, according to Home Office figures. It is also estimated that there are some 200 terrorist networks functioning in Britain today who are involved in at least 30 plots.

But this latest security assessment appears to suggest that the number of individuals who now pose a threat to the UK is even higher.

 

[Carl V]

But there's nobody to represent the views of the white people is there? Apart from the whiteys themselves that is. Perhaps people who join these groups like being in an exclusive little club and in fact they should make more of an effort just getting on with the job. They should stop thinking of themselves as black police officers (etc etc) and just start thinking of themselves as police officers.

Illegal immigrants are no more of a problem than the legal ones. The legal ones are the ones who can claim the benefits on the illegals. Immigration is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Uncontrolled immigration is a bad thing and something Comrade Stalin and the rest of the commies have been ignoring whilst the work out how big a TV they can get past the claims office.

People are concerned about immigration levels and whilst most people don't even bother with learning about the BNP constitution or the majority of the policies they have (which would have precluded most of our olympians from representing us in China) they do promise to address one of the major areas of concern people have.

People shouldn't blame the BNP for being where they are they should blame the weak moderate parties for giving them ground to move into.

I couldn't agree more. The only reason people support the BNP is because they address issues the other main parties are afraid of. It seems OK to have organisations to speak up for minority groups but anyone who speaks up for white working class people are automatically branded as racists.

 

[Bruce120]

I heard Nick Griffin say that only white indigenious people are allowed to join the BNP, how far back does he say a party members history in Britain has to go before they are indeginous to this country.

 

[TG.]

I couldn't agree more. The only reason people support the BNP is because they address issues the other main parties are afraid of. It seems OK to have organisations to speak up for minority groups but anyone who speaks up for white working class people are automatically branded as racists.

Again, spot on

 

[Cobra]

But there's nobody to represent the views of the white people is there? Apart from the whiteys themselves that is. Perhaps people who join these groups like being in an exclusive little club and in fact they should make more of an effort just getting on with the job. They should stop thinking of themselves as black police officers (etc etc) and just start thinking of themselves as police officers.

Illegal immigrants are no more of a problem than the legal ones. The legal ones are the ones who can claim the benefits on the illegals. Immigration is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Uncontrolled immigration is a bad thing and something Comrade Stalin and the rest of the commies have been ignoring whilst the work out how big a TV they can get past the claims office.

People are concerned about immigration levels and whilst most people don't even bother with learning about the BNP constitution or the majority of the policies they have (which would have precluded most of our olympians from representing us in China) they do promise to address one of the major areas of concern people have.

People shouldn't blame the BNP for being where they are they should blame the weak moderate parties for giving them ground to move into.

And another good post
(saved me a lot of typing )

 

[welly]

But there's nobody to represent the views of the white people is there? Apart from the whiteys themselves that is. Perhaps people who join these groups like being in an exclusive little club and in fact they should make more of an effort just getting on with the job. They should stop thinking of themselves as black police officers (etc etc) and just start thinking of themselves as police officers.

You miss my point entirely. There's nobody to represent me as a two armed and legged photographer either. There's a gay police association but no straight police association. There was a National Union of Women Teachers but no National Union of Male Teachers, which existed up until 1961 when equal pay meant there was no longer a need for women teachers to be specifically represented.

To repeat myself, they're a minority and as such their views and needs are not necessarily as well represented as white police officers, nurses or lawyers.

As the majority race in this country, you'll find that your views are represented above and beyond any other race in this country, by default.

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

Pretty much fact abu hamza and abu quatada didn't do a days work since they came into the country to name but a couple, but were happy not only to claim benefits but slag us all off and protest it was there right, as the rest of us were just Kaffirs, and by your reaction i feel i have to ask are you saying you have sympathy with these extremists then ?

Don't be ludicrous. Just put your straw man down and answer the actual question. Is it "fact" or "pretty much fact"? There's a world of difference. All I want to know is where you get your information about these extremists. Are you friends with them? Did they tell you at the meetings?

Good post Tel



A quick google will provide all the info you require
Names are mostly kept secret as I guess it would ruin years
of man hours and hundreds and thousands of pounds in resources
if they were published
but a quick random snip..................

A year ago Jonathan Evans, the director general of MI5, said in a speech that his organisation had identified that there were at least 2,000 individuals who posed a threat to national security and public safety.

Since 2001, over 1,200 terrorist suspect have been arrested, over 140 have been charged and more than 45 have been convicted of terrorism offences, according to Home Office figures. It is also estimated that there are some 200 terrorist networks functioning in Britain today who are involved in at least 30 plots.

But this latest security assessment appears to suggest that the number of individuals who now pose a threat to the UK is even higher.

I was actually asking about the claims about immigrants claiming benefits. But those figures seem reasonable to me. You can't go arresting people willy nilly - proper evidence is required, so 1200 arrests is actually pretty good going, no? Unless you'd rather we invested all the police's time in the pursuit of Modern McCarthyism?

oops too late

 

[welly]

I couldn't agree more. The only reason people support the BNP is because they address issues the other main parties are afraid of. It seems OK to have organisations to speak up for minority groups but anyone who speaks up for white working class people are automatically branded as racists.

That's probably because all the organisations who DO speak up for white (working class or otherwise) people ARE racists. The BNP are racists, Combat 18 are racists, the KKK are racists, the Aryan Nation are racists, the NF are racists. It's not so much that they're speaking up for white working class people, they're speaking against non-whites. None of those organisations represent what I, as a white person, need! Whatever that might be. :shrug:

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

That's probably because all the organisations who DO speak up for white (working class or otherwise) people ARE racists. The BNP are racists, Combat 18 are racists, the KKK are racists, the Aryan Nation are racists, the NF are racists. It's not so much that they're speaking up for white working class people, they're speaking against non-whites. None of those organisations represent what I, as a white person, need! Whatever that might be. :shrug:

Welly. Welly. Welly. What you (a white person) needs is obvious. You need someone to step in and get rid of all the foreigners that are the cause of this nation's problems. And don't worry, once they're gone we'll start to deal with the growing ginger menace.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

I love this thread, its full of narrow minded idiots.....
































.....and people who actually realize that the BNP gaining power is a wake up call for the government to tackle the problems that this is surely highlighting.

And as for the segregation of minorities into groups so they are better represented, its total bull poop! they MAKE themselves a minority and then claim that they are unheard! Then (As Kev said) stop being a BLACK police officer and be A police officer!

(Told you i would be back! )

 

[Cobra]

I was actually asking about the claims about immigrants claiming benefits.

That I guess we will never know for sure
its only the "odd few" that come to light via the media
when the DSS (or what ever its called release figures)

Unless you'd rather we invested all the police's time in the pursuit of Modern McCarthyism?

oops too late

and I respect your point of view and your right to express it
as much as anyone else involved in this discussion

 

[TG.]

Are you friends with them? Did they tell you at the meetings?

no not at all, but i wasn't the one defending them was i !, and just to clarify, i didn't say all immigrants legal or ilegal claim benefits, i said certain extremists ie hamza and quatata to name a couple, who did, and yes that is fact !

 

[hepburn]

Yes, **** anything anyone has to say that justifies or defends these people. :thumbsdown:

You clearly have very strong views on this topic. Be grateful you live in a country where you are allowed to express them freely. I wonder what you would be saying or doing if it was you being pelted with eggs for trying to put your POV across, especially having been elected within a democratic system? :shrug:

I don't have a particular liking for extremist parties of either side, left or right, but I do feel they force the mainstream parties to tackle issues they would perhaps rather not.

With all the will in the world there will never be a utopia because we're all different. Tolerance is what's needed, and it's not a white only word.

 

[PMK]

And as for the segregation of minorities into groups so they are better represented, its total bull poop! they MAKE themselves a minority and then claim that they are unheard!

This has to be the stupidest and most outlandish thing I have ever read on a forum before.

As Welly has stated in this thread but has been missed a couple of times. White people in Britain are represented all the time in the media, workplace, sports etc through default. We have had non-white citizens in Britain for decades yet they are still not represented equally.

Why should it matter where you are born as to what rights are available to you? They are HUMAN rights

 

[SuperCNJ]

As someone said earlier, although I don't agree with the BNP's political views, its only fair to allow them to voice their opinion as all other parties are allowed.

I personally think that the fact that the BNP managed to get 2 seats in a time of poor economic state is no coincidence. It seems logical to me that when people are made redundant or are struggling to make ends meet they will naturally become jealous of those who are in better positions than them. And if those they judge by just happen to be non-indigenous British people it would seem an easy target to blame them rather their own incompetence/inability.

Whilst on the topic of politics, my personal view on what this country needs is:

1. Better Parenting
2. Less laziness

In my opinion, most of the problems we experience in this country are down to poor parenting. Poor parenting = poorly raised people = poor parents. If you think about the problems we face, some if not all the problems we have can be attributed to poor parenting, be it crime, poor train service, poor education standards etc.

Laziness is the other issue I have with a lot of the people in this country, how many times have you requested a service from someone whether it’s a builder or a customer service advisor and found that they could have done a lot more for you? Having travelled around the world a lot, you get to see other cultures where people are a lot more helpful, proud of what they do, considerate and generally more efficient.

I think our country peaked during WW2, and has been in decline ever since with succeeding generations becoming more and more lazy and parents not being able to raise their kids properly. Now, I’m not saying all parents are bad and everyone is lazy, I’m generalising here but I’m sure you get my drift.

I think the reasons why people are supporting the BNP is because they need people to blame when things are not looking good for them. A lot of people seem to get annoyed at the fact that others are doing better than them when they have actually themselves to blame.

 

[hepburn]

Whilst on the topic of politics, my personal view on what this country needs is:

1. Better Parenting
2. Less laziness

I think the reasons why people are supporting the BNP is because they need people to blame when things are not looking good for them. A lot of people seem to get annoyed at the fact that others are doing better than them when they have actually themselves to blame.

[selective quoting used]

Couldn't agree more with you on 1 & 2. However, can't agree with your POV on blaming ourselves for others doing better when we have "positive discrimination" in force still.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

This has to be the stupidest and most outlandish thing I have ever read on a forum before.

As Welly has stated in this thread but has been missed a couple of times. White people in Britain are represented all the time in the media, workplace, sports etc through default. We have had non-white citizens in Britain for decades yet they are still not represented equally.

Why should it matter where you are born as to what rights are available to you? They are HUMAN rights

Rubbish, absolute rubbish!

Part of the reason the BNP have gained this seat is that members of this country feel that the minorities have better representation and get better treatment with higher priorities then the "british" majority!

So, take your little comment, and stick it right up your arse! Am i wrong? Lets ask those people who voted BNP if i am.

Idiot!

 

[dod]

enough

 

[Gary]

enough

shame really.. for almost a second i thought it might end without insults