BNP and what's happened to democracy?

[pampers]

I did not vote for them,and never would. But those that did,used thier right,to vote for those that they wished to.

By saying that they should not be allowed to. Or that certain political partys, have no right to exsist. Are we not on a slippery slope.

 

[whiteflyer]

The BNP are a LEGAL political party in this country and should have the same rights to speech and protection as any other legal political party.

You may or may not agree with anything they say or stand for, but you should defend their right to say it.

Banning a Legal political party theses rights sends us down a very slippery slope. Would Brown and Labour ban anything said or printed by the Conservative party if they could get away with it, your damn right Labour would.

The only way to defend extreme parties from the left or right it through open debate, keep them in the closet and they just grow stronger.




PS. please don't say multicultural when you mean multiracial, there is a difference.

 

[newyorkaddict]

I'm giving my opinion. Stick "In my opinion, " in front of everything I say. In my opinion, they haven't earned the right or deserve to have a voice. They're terrorists. If the BNP is the voice of the "common man" then I really fear for this country.

If the BNP are terrorists, they are doing no harm to people, unlike the Muslim Jihad Terrorists that this Government and country so happily put's up with and to a degree protects by not sending them back to where they came from. If these people are happy to live here and take from our countries systems, they should not be defended when they maim and murder our citizens. They should be dealt with to the full extent of the law, but they are not, and this is why the BNP are doing well, because they are not afraid to stand up and tell people they are fed up with modern day Britain. We are ruled by politicians who's only concerns are how much money they can sponge from the taxpayer. They make false promises, and never deliver on anything they say they will. There is a massive undercurrent of mistrust in this country, most of it aimed at the ruling parties. But unlike certain people, most are afraid to voice their distain. The people in charge have been getting away with murder for far too long know, and they need to face the fact that the people will not stand for it much longer.

People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people. I know it's a film quote, but it is quite apt in these times.

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

Incidentally, I don't believe that even extremist parties like the BNP should be denied a platform, but if that's going to be allowed, then something needs to be done about the UK news media, which is so skewed in its desperation to sell print copy that the idea of reporting actual facts has become almost alien to them. Also, the culture that says it's ok to accept such "facts" at face value and base important political decisions on knee jerk reactions needs to change as well - but how do you educate a country so mired in it's own apathy to care?

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

unlike the Muslim Jihad Terrorists that this Government and country so happily put's up with and to a degree protects by not sending them back to where they came from.

Oh wow. What's your source for THAT information?

 

[AlexW]

@ Hopkin Green Frog

Great post. That pretty much sums up my outlook too.

 

[Steve Smith]

The BNP are a LEGAL political party in this country and should have the same rights to speech and protection as any other legal political party.

The party may legally exist but some of the things they say clearly promote racial hatred and are therefore illegal.

We do not have absolute freedom of speech in this country. If we did, there would be no cases of slander, and defamation in the courts.


Steve.

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

The party may legally exist but some of the things they say clearly promote racial hatred and are therefore illegal.

We do not have absolute freedom of speech in this country. If we did, there would be no cases of slander, and defamation in the courts.


Steve.

Tru dat. The BNP walk a very fine line, and one day they're gonna fall off it. And that will be a glorious day.

 

[welly]

If the BNP are terrorists, they are doing no harm to people

"Anti-fascists called on David Enderby British National Party (BNP) councillor for Winyates ward, Redditch, to resign his position on the council after he was found guilty of three counts of assault yesterday."

"In the same week a BNP activist in Swindon Mark Bulman (who has used the pseudonym Bullock) was sentenced to five years after attempting to firebomb a local mosque using a BNP leaflet as a fuse. He also daubed swastikas and racist graffiti on local shops and businesses that he believed to be ‘ethnic’. "

"In June 2006 BNP councillor Brian Turner was found guilty of a racially aggravated public order offence. He escaped a jail sentence and was instead ordered to carry out 300 hours of unpaid work in the community. Turner has previous convictions of common assault and police assault after he was convicted of beating up his wife Melanie Turner. "

http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache...e=70124+bnp+violence&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

"A former British National Party candidate has been jailed for two-and-a-half years for possessing explosive chemicals."

http://www1.itv.com/news/index_ddf1f4b95a95e7b99d249b4af72d7ca9.html

Oh, yeah.. they're harmless!

 

[Marcel]

keep the discussion away from actual parties and the merits thereof.

*AHEM*
Last warning.

 

[newyorkaddict]

Oh wow. What's your source for THAT information?

The fact that you see the proof nearly every day in the media (begin the flaming). I was in EXETER the day some idiot decided to try and kill a few people with a nail bomb, but fortunately it went off in his own face. He lived under our rules as a British patriot, but he was KNOWN to have affiliation's with Muslim Extremists. Why was nothing done about this? Because he, like you and me, enjoyed the freedom of this once great nation. BUT, on the same note, he should have been investigated before he had the chance to do anything, it seems the powers that be didn't want to upset him as he was seen as a Mentally Challenged individual. IMO they were scared of who they might upset, well BOO Frickety HOO. If he is wiiling to kill, then he should be dealt with as such.

 

[hepburn]

i dont agree with anything the BNP say, but I believe they have every right to say it. Hounding the guy so he cant say his piece is surely fascist in itself.

I have said it once and i'll say it again:

While its an extreme situation that the BNP got a seat, the fact is that the british public are starting to speak out about how they are feeling.
We get no other voice other then a vote, and if people are feeling that the BNP policies (while a little extreme) are reason to vote them in, then the current crop of MPs need to look at the policies the BNP have and address the situation.

My 2p worth. I dont see it as a way forward at all having the BNP having a voice on this country, but i do see it as alarm bells for the labour party and which ever party wins the general election next year (hopefully one will be called sooner)

Are these the kind of scum bags that we want representing our country in Europe or, in fact, anywhere? They have not earned the right to respect or to have a voice. **** them and anyone who supports them.

The BNP aren't just "fascist bigots" or have "bad ideas", these are evil, malicious people. I can't believe anyone can even begin to defend them or their policies. I'm absolutely shocked that there's any support for them at all.

Like it or not, they are now a legitimate political voice as voted for by some of the UK's public. It kind of reminds me of the old days of the irish "problem", and now we have former IRA "member/s" not just in politics but in power. Does that mean the IRA is in power? :shrug:

The reality of the BNP is whether you accept them or not, or even support them or not, they exist because they focus on a problem which the mainstream parties don't give much time to. They got votes for a number of reasons, not least the fact some of the public feel they are best represented by them.

Let them have their platform because if what they say is truly unacceptable they will either talk themselves out of favour or be shut down regardless.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

Next up... your newspaper headline about "LOONY LEFT BANS XMAS TREES" blah blah. Now I wouldn't want to say for sure, but I'm willing to suggest that this "news" (based on the tone of the headline) didn't come from a respectable news outlet, but far more likely The Sun or The Star. Far be it from me to tell you what you should or shouldn't read, but we live in a world where practically no news agency can be fully trusted to offer balanced reporting. The kind of rags that cater to the lowest common demoninator and print sensationalised guff to excite the fears of the masses become less citeable than wikipedia.

Actually, this was quite a big story, where local MPs of muslim and other faiths came out and said "now you are just being stupid, dont deny your traditions just to please the minority" so no, it wasn't the Sun or the Daily Star.

Marcel is going to close this thread if you dont play by the rules people, so either read his post and obied by his wishes, or shut up and get off the thread, or keep at it and get the thread closed.

If its the latter, then the irony just oozes out this thread!

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

The fact that you see the proof nearly every day in the media (begin the flaming). I was in EXETER the day some idiot decided to try and kill a few people with a nail bomb, but fortunately it went off in his own face. He lived under our rules as a British patriot, but he was KNOWN to have affiliation's with Muslim Extremists. Why was nothing done about this? Because he, like you and me, enjoyed the freedom of this once great nation. BUT, on the same note, he should have been investigated before he had the chance to do anything, it seems the powers that be didn't want to upset him as he was seen as a Mentally Challenged individual. IMO they were scared of who they might upset, well BOO Frickety HOO. If he is wiiling to kill, then he should be dealt with as such.

So at what point do you swoop in with the tasers? At the point of suspicion? How much suspicion is necessary? Perhaps we should just grab everyone who's a bit funny looking? Or everyone who's a muslim? Or perhaps just people who convert to Islam?

We had plenty of bombs here before Al-Quaeda came along, and we didn't go blaming all irishmen for the IRA did we?

 

[AlexW]

I think that proportional representation is a good thing, and that the smaller parties should have representation in our political system. If we were to move to it for our own parliament (UK) we would undoubtedly see actual BNP MPs, along with Greens, UKIP etc...

I think this would be a worthwhile price to pay for a more democratic system.

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

*AHEM*
Last warning.

Can we talk about "general nationalist hate groups" if we don't name any specific names?

 

[CraigF]

Im not going to follow this thread anymore so i will leave you all with this.
The OP asked the question - BNP and what's happened to democracy?

This is Democracy. A true Democracy where anyone or any Party can stand in a Democratic Election and be voted in by the public.
Regardless whether you like their Policies or Ideals they have been voted in by the Public.
So instead of ranting and raving about it why not Celebrate the fact that Democracy is alive and well and living in the UK.

 

[CraigF]

Have one more thing to add.
A quote from my Grandad may he rest in peace when i was very young.

Politicians - Hmmpff, i would take them all out the back garden, shoot them and let God sort them out.

 

[Steve Smith]

Politicians - Hmmpff, i would take them all out the back garden, shoot them and let God sort them out.

Let me paraphrase that with one from my mother:

"I hate all this violence. I would shoot the lot of them".


Steve.

 

[newyorkaddict]

I'm getting bored TBH with this back and forth. So everybody can have their opinions, and whatever we say, Welly will be ready with a media savvy quote, or an argument against your comment, as he is right and *#*# anything anyone with an argument against him has to say.:bang:

 

[Jimmy_Lemon]

Hopkin Green Frog

Saved me having to post anything, apart from this.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

Have one more thing to add.
A quote from my Grandad may he rest in peace when i was very young.

Politicians - Hmmpff, i would take them all out the back garden, shoot them and let God sort them out.

Let me paraphrase that with one from my mother:

"I hate all this violence. I would shoot the lot of them".


Steve.

Very wise words spoken indeed!

i'm bored of this thread now, so will leave it to fester or get locked.
(No doubt i'll be back )

 

[welly]

I'm getting bored TBH with this back and forth. So everybody can have their opinions, and whatever we say, Welly will be ready with a media savvy quote, or an argument against your comment, as he is right and *#*# anything anyone with an argument against him has to say.:bang:

Yes, **** anything anyone has to say that justifies or defends these people. :thumbsdown:

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

Hopkin Green Frog

Saved me having to post anything, apart from this.

I'm feeling the good vibes from a "nonspecific love group that will not be named".

 

[mmcp42]

following the pelting with eggs incident
according to one newspaper
"he had to be whisked away"

 

[newyorkaddict]

Yes, **** anything anyone has to say that justifies or defends these people. :thumbsdown:

Grow up little man The world and this forum do not revolve around your thoughts.

 

[dapprman]

I think that proportional representation is a good thing, and that the smaller parties should have representation in our political system. If we were to move to it for our own parliament (UK) we would undoubtedly see actual BNP MPs, along with Greens, UKIP etc...

I think this would be a worthwhile price to pay for a more democratic system.

I challenge you to name a country where it's worked.
German, Netherlands and Israel are all examples of where it most certainly has not as small minority parties have dominated laws making as they are essential to making a ruling block (Greens and Ultra-nationalist in NL, Greens in German, and Ultra-Orthodox in Israel).

 

[welly]

Grow up little man The world and this forum do not revolve around your thoughts.

Well I apologise if I expressed an opinion and gave reasons why I have that opinion.

:shrug:

 

[Steve Smith]

Just for information, This is what the Human Rights Act 1998 has to say on freedom of expression


Everyone has the right of freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without inference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.

However, it goes on to say:

The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

the bit I have made bold is the important bit.


Steve.

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

Just for information, This is what the Human Rights Act 1998 has to say on freedom of expression


Everyone has the right of freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without inference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.

However, it goes on to say:

The exercise of these freedoms, since it carries with it duties and responsibilities, may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society, in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others, for preventing the disclosure of information received in confidence, or for maintaining the authority and impartiality of the judiciary.

the bit I have made bold is the important bit.


Steve.

QFT, Steve. Also highlighted another bit of (I think) equal relevance.

 

[CraigF]

Does that mean we can sue Welly for infringing our Human Right? Oh, he isnt a Public Authority, just an Authority.

 

[CraigF]

following the pelting with eggs incident
according to one newspaper
"he had to be whisked away"

That has to be the quote of the day.

Or it might be my one earlier that i wasnt going to follow this thread anymore.

 

[AlexW]

I challenge you to name a country where it's worked.
German, Netherlands and Israel are all examples of where it most certainly has not as small minority parties have dominated laws making as they are essential to making a ruling block (Greens and Ultra-nationalist in NL, Greens in German, and Ultra-Orthodox in Israel).

Scotland :shrug:

 

[CraigF]

Scotland :shrug:

Hmmm, i would say no.
You see the Current Ruling Party (nearly put SNP but i remembered Marcel did not want parties named) are like little puppets getting dangled by Westminster and scarely they all look like little puppets too.

 

[AlexW]

Finland :shrug:

(I only have to name 1 right? its quite a long list you see )

 

[geoffd70]

This reminds me of the situation in France a number of years ago when Jean Marie Le Pen came within a whisker of winning the French Elections.

Why?
Its been widely regarded that the good people of France just got so ****ed off with their Governments pandering to Immigrants that they decided enough was enough.
Do we think it was a coincidence that a few days later the French Government stood up and made a stand against Ethnic Minorities claiming they had been "Wronged" by this that and the next thing. Of course it wasnt, the people spoke and the government had no choice but to listen.

Another story was a number of years ago.
I was reading the Paper and the Headline was somehting like "LOONY LEFT BAN XMAS TREES IN COUNCIL BUILDINGS AS THE CAUSE OFFENSE TO MUSLIMS".

Below was a story about the larget Nativity Scene in the World and the Largest Xmas Tree in the World...Where was this.....It was in a shopping Mall in DUBIA.

I have friends who are Black, Muslim, Gay, i have no issues with any of them.
I do however have issues with a Stupid, Useless government Accusing me and the rest of the UK public of having Issues with them, i also have issues with Idiot, Moronic Protestors protesting against the War in Iraq, Afganistan and the BNP.

As my Friends Tatoo states "Scotland - LOVE HER OR LEAVE HER"

I will now go onto the issue of Illegal Immigrants.
These people come here claiming they are been oppressed etc, i have no issues with that but it does beg the question.

Why come all the way to the UK?
If i felt my life was in danger in my own country i would head to the nearest safe country.
I for one am not fooled by the "This is the nearest safe country" ********.

We accuse the BNP of being Facist Biggots with the same beliefs as Hitler.

Hitler commited some of the worst attrocities in the 2nd world war that is a fact which no one would dare oppose but Muslims extremists claim the extermaination of millions of Jews never happened.

Also let us not forget that the Good Old US of A committed the 2 Single Biggest acts of Genocide of the 2nd World war by dropping the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki they could have dropped those bombs on any of the smaller islands surrounding Japan and believe me the Japanese would have got the "Same Message" but no, they decided to nuke 2 large cities.

Before anyone tries to lambast the BNP or anyone else i suggest they go and read their History as they will find every country has had their really dark days in history and just because they are in the past it does not mean we have the automatic right to claim the moral highground now.

Couldn't have said it better

Everyone has the right to be heard - they are not an illegal party - but some people have been sacked for being members of the BNP :shrug: Can I as a white person join The National Black Police Officers Association (if i where a police officer) or maybe The Association of Muslim Lawyers (if I where a lawyer) Why to they need to segregate themselves from the rest of us. I have many black and asian friends but I don't see them as being different.

It's a shame that to some people on here freedom of speech is not a right for everybody and some of you actually advocate violence - you blind fools.

 

[TG.]

I think the reason why people are voting for the BNP is more of a protest vote than anything else, i don't think most would want them in power because of there extremist views, BUT people are sick and tired of being ignored by this government and other main stream parties on what they consider important issue's ie immigration being a very big issue, i consider myself working class, i work for a company who employ 45% of immigrants, to hear some of the conversations that take place at work i can understand why people feel the way they do, we have an agency within the company who employ mainly African immigrants whilst turning white British people away telling them they don't have enough experience, while some of these immigrants can barely speak English, and while this is a management issue on the company's part, it's understandable why people react the way they do.

On another point of muslim extremists, Abu Hamza was allowed to spout his hate crap of the west (mainly about Britain and the US) on the streets of London for years before anything was actually done about it, there are also several more of these muslim extremists who we know of who are doing pretty much the same thing now, without the ones we don't know about, and what does our government do about it, well nothing apart from let them stay here while paying them thousands in benefits to them and there families, i find it rather strange how none of these people are able to work, or maybe they are just taking the p**s

The fact is people are sick and tired of hearing stories like the above, plus the fact the cost of our own resources on immigration to the tax payer, so should the BNP have a voice yes most definitely, if only for the fact they just may make mainstream parties stand up and take notice of what peoples perceptions and worries are.

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

.. what does our government do about it, well nothing apart from let them stay here while paying them thousands in benefits to them and there families, i find it rather strange how none of these people are able to work, or maybe they are just taking the p**s

Aww, nothing like a bit of conjecture. Show me the numbers.

 

[Hopkin Green Frog]

Couldn't have said it better

Everyone has the right to be heard - they are not an illegal party - but some people have been sacked for being members of the BNP :shrug: Can I as a white person join The National Black Police Officers Association (if i where a police officer) or maybe The Association of Muslim Lawyers (if I where a lawyer) Why to they need to segregate themselves from the rest of us. I have many black and asian friends but I don't see them as being different.

It's a shame that to some people on here freedom of speech is not a right for everybody and some of you actually advocate violence - you blind fools.

The "right wing hate group who cannot be named for we fear the wrath of Marcel" are arguably illegal. Like I said earlier, they walk a very fine line.

 

[TG.]

Aww, nothing like a bit of conjecture. Show me the numbers.

I'm sure your quite capable of looking those statistics up for yourself