Blackfishing?

Hanley

Hanley

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I've got to say, until yesterday I didn't even know blackfishing was a thing,
I read an article on Sky News about an ex-member of a girl group and how she's being accused of blackfishing.

So I did a search on Twitter and got to say I was shocked at the kind of stuff I was reading, an example "if any white person lays on the beach for hours or constantly visits tanning shops then this is classed as blackfishing".

As a society have we really become this stupid?
 
I'd not heard the term until very recently. I've heard cultural appropriation used a lot and I guess there is crossover between the terms.I don't think its derogatory to use parts of another culture in your own but both terms are derogatory. Of course listen Oliver's Army by Elvis Costello and I guess the term may be new, but the ideas aint
 
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boyfalldown said:
I'd not heard the term until very recently. I've heard cultural appropriation used a lot and I guess there is crossover between the terms.I don't think its derogatory to use parts of another culture in your own but north terms are derogatory. Of course listen Oliver's Army by Elvis Costello and I guess the term may be new, but the ideas aint
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I've been to an Italian restaurant ran by a Lebanese man - is this cultural appropriation?
Jamie Oliver runs a chain of Italian restaurants - again is this cultural appropriation?

We got married in Jamaica and the locals liked to braid the hair of the female tourists and dress them up in local clothes, this was back in 2003 before 'cultural appropriation' but nobody seemed to find it offensive.

I always thought imitation was the ultimate form of flattery.
 
I saw a piece on tv the other night about this. I have to say the "singer" in question was doing her damnedest to fit in with the black idiot in looks and music, even if all she had apparently done is tanned a lot and braided her hair. Mind you it did look like she had bottomed her lips too.
But if this is a thing defined as above, then I guess Bo Derek was "black fishing" back in the 70's with braided hair and tan, although she in no way looked like she was pretending to be something she wasn't.
And in any case, I can't see the problem with "cultural appropriation" anyway; what's the difference between that and multiculturalism?
 
lindsay said:
I saw a piece on tv the other night about this. I have to say the "singer" in question was doing her damnedest to fit in with the black idiot in looks and music, even if all she had apparently done is tanned a lot and braided her hair. Mind you it did look like she had bottomed her lips too.
But if this is a thing defined as above, then I guess Bo Derek was "black fishing" back in the 70's with braided hair and tan, although she in no way looked like she was pretending to be something she wasn't.
And in any case, I can't see the problem with "cultural appropriation" anyway; what's the difference between that and multiculturalism?
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Have to say I agree, I think in one form or another it's been around for a long time but now people seem to go out of their way to be offended on somebody else's behalf.
This is just my experience after reading around 30 minutes worth of tweets.
 
Hanley said:
I've been to an Italian restaurant ran by a Lebanese man - is this cultural appropriation?
Jamie Oliver runs a chain of Italian restaurants - again is this cultural appropriation?

We got married in Jamaica and the locals liked to braid the hair of the female tourists and dress them up in local clothes, this was back in 2003 before 'cultural appropriation' but nobody seemed to find it offensive.

I always thought imitation was the ultimate form of flattery.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree - its also how cultures evolve, by using parts of other cultures ins their own.
 
Hanley said:
I must just be getting old as I really don't see what the problem is.
If it isn't racist, offensive or derogatory in any way then who has been hurt?
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Am I the only one that thinks by calling it blackfishing actually makes it racist, offensive and derogatory! :(
 
That's another "New term" on me, I had to google it,
first off, what the hell has she done to herself?
Second :rolleyes:

Hanley said:
it worries me where we're headed as a society.
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You and me both :(
 
Another point, I felt like I couldn't say any of this on Facebook for fear of someone getting offended or trying to cancel me or worse still contacting my employer and saying they are offended. It's a sad state of affairs to be honest.

I work for a large bank and we had someone who was fired recently for something they said on social media. in their own time, not related to work and not offensive (to any rational person)
 
Hanley said:
Another point, I felt like I couldn't say any of this on Facebook for fear of someone getting offended or trying to cancel me or worse still contacting my employer and saying they are offended. It's a sad state of affairs to be honest.

I work for a large bank and we had someone who was fired recently for something they said on social media. in their own time, not related to work and not offensive (to any rational person)
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When I worked I was mostly as I am outside work, mostly friendly (honest...) and quite tactile, and I'd often touch peoples shoulders as I passed and say "Hello" and would often say things like "You look smart / well today." This wasn't confined to those who identify as ?? Whatever ?? it was just something I did and indeed others did it to me in total innocence. I'd imagine that that sort of innocent friendliness would be a ticking time bomb today and sooner or later would end in someone "Not feeling safe."

I don't like the cultural appropriation accusations about clothing or food or probably anything else really but Mrs WW often goes off on one when celebrity chefs on TV cook Thai dishes and get them wildly wrong.

Back OT.

I saw the black fishing pop star and although I'd never heard the term before it looked more likely to me that she was trying to identify as something she wasn't rather than her explanation which would involve some, coincidences.
 
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Hanley said:
I work for a large bank and we had someone who was fired recently for something they said on social media. in their own time, not related to work and not offensive (to any rational person)
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Banks are, for various reasons, hyper sensitive on the race issue and I know of a case where someone played that to their advantage (or so they thought) at two different banks.

I was directly involved with the first case and indirectly at the second. All I can safely say is that, according to what I heard subsequently, the person learned the hard way that repeating a nasty trick, in a relatively small community like banking IT, can blow up in your face. :(
 
I have to ask, was Michael Jackson "White Fishing" then?
 
Hanley said:
I've got to say, until yesterday I didn't even know blackfishing was a thing,
I read an article on Sky News about an ex-member of a girl group and how she's being accused of blackfishing.

So I did a search on Twitter and got to say I was shocked at the kind of stuff I was reading, an example "if any white person lays on the beach for hours or constantly visits tanning shops then this is classed as blackfishing".

As a society have we really become this stupid?
Click to expand...

It was new term to me too but from what I've read, it is as you have seen but with the addition that it is done for commercial gain or to raise their profile.

Dave
 
I have very serious concerns that in the headlong rush to be inclusive, as a society we will end up choking all imagination, creativity and freedom of expression (unless it's the officially approved form of creativity) out of everyone. And I have a suspicion that just saying this could get me into trouble with the company I now work for.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I have very serious concerns that in the headlong rush to be inclusive, as a society we will end up choking all imagination, creativity and freedom of expression (unless it's the officially approved form of creativity) out of everyone. And I have a suspicion that just saying this could get me into trouble with the company I now work for.
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100% agree
 
Hanley said:
100% agree
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The whole thing is symptomatic of how far the culture of bullying has penetrated western society. The old Soviet commissars must be chortling in their graves at the thought of how the "liberal" west has adopted their tactics.
 
It makes my head hurt.

We are constantly told to be more inclusive and diverse, yet when someone "borrows" a different culture's hairstyle or dress, they get accused of all this nonsense,

So which is it? If they are ignored, they cry about white privilege and how their culture isn't represented and if white people try to be diverse and embrace other cultures they cry racism.
 
Has anyone heard of "Critical race theory - CRT"?
I wonder if I am blackfishing when I listen to Bob Marley, make a curry.
Here is a prime example of how stupid and divisive this whole thing is. Dawn Butler is IMHO the reason why the Labour Party is unelectable at the moment (for the forseeable future). Personally, I think differences should bring us closer together, we should bathe in diversity, not find excuses to drive us apart.

london.eater.com

Jamie Oliver Accused of Cultural Appropriation Over ‘Jerk Rice’

Labour’s Dawn Butler tweeted that jerk “is not just a word you put before stuff to sell products”
london.eater.com london.eater.com

www.bbc.co.uk

Japanese-themed bar accused of cultural appropriation

White women were dressed in kimonos and geisha-style make-up at the opening of the Tokyo Tea Rooms.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
This is all barmy.
Better stop non Scots from wearing kilts and Harris Tweed.
MP's should stick to what they're elected to do......oh wait.....they never do....
 
andya700 said:
Has anyone heard of "Critical race theory - CRT"?
I wonder if I am blackfishing when I listen to Bob Marley, make a curry.
Here is a prime example of how stupid and divisive this whole thing is. Dawn Butler is IMHO the reason why the Labour Party is unelectable at the moment (for the forseeable future). Personally, I think differences should bring us closer together, we should bathe in diversity, not find excuses to drive us apart.

london.eater.com

Jamie Oliver Accused of Cultural Appropriation Over ‘Jerk Rice’

Labour’s Dawn Butler tweeted that jerk “is not just a word you put before stuff to sell products”
london.eater.com london.eater.com

www.bbc.co.uk

Japanese-themed bar accused of cultural appropriation

White women were dressed in kimonos and geisha-style make-up at the opening of the Tokyo Tea Rooms.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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Dawn Butler and Dianne Abbot :ROFLMAO:
 
What I can't understand is that it is entirely acceptable for anyone to identify as whatever gender they wish but when it comes to their ethnicity this is totally off limits. I am afraid the world seems full of folks who love to be offended on behalf of others who actually don't give a damn.
 
daveproctor said:
What I can't understand is that it is entirely acceptable for anyone to identify as whatever gender they wish but when it comes to their ethnicity this is totally off limits. I am afraid the world seems full of folks who love to be offended on behalf of others who actually don't give a damn.
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Gender identity is a social construct, ethnicity is a genetic definite. You can't just choose to be a different ethnicity, just like you can't choose that 1+1 doesn't equal 2.

But gender is entirely a social construct and several cultures have had more than 2 genders for a long time.
 
daveproctor said:
What I can't understand is that it is entirely acceptable for anyone to identify as whatever gender they wish but when it comes to their ethnicity this is totally off limits. I am afraid the world seems full of folks who love to be offended on behalf of others who actually don't give a damn.
Click to expand...

Or its like a group on LinkedIn having a session on equality... thing is this group was the Women's XYZ network! So not really equality as only women could join!

I do find such things more divisive.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Gender identity is a social construct, ethnicity is a genetic definite. You can't just choose to be a different ethnicity, just like you can't choose that 1+1 doesn't equal 2.

But gender is entirely a social construct and several cultures have had more than 2 genders for a long time.
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Perhaps should have kept out of a controversial topic but if ethnicity is defined by genetics how does this differ from gender that is dictated by DNA / genetics?

I have no objection to an individual choosing to be whichever gender they wish to be and equally do not see the issue in an individual of one culture / ethnicity choosing to use elements of other cultures. I do acknowledge there are times when DNA does dictate that there are 'grey' areas in terms of an individual's gender.
 
daveproctor said:
Perhaps should have kept out of a controversial topic but if ethnicity is defined by genetics how does this differ from gender that is dictated by DNA / genetics?

I have no objection to an individual choosing to be whichever gender they wish to be and equally do not see the issue in an individual of one culture / ethnicity choosing to use elements of other cultures. I do acknowledge there are times when DNA does dictate that there are 'grey' areas in terms of an individual's gender.
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Gender is a social construct, not genetic. It refers to the characteristics that are often deemed as feminine or masculine. And not biological sex.

Other cultures have had more than 2 genders for a long time. Such as part of the indian subcontinent, the phillipines, polynesia and a few others, who have had non-binary genders for centuries.
 
Ok so you're defining gender rather than sex.

I use the terms, possibly incorrectly, as inter-changeable as do most people. Accepting the two are different doesn't change my view that using elements of another ethnic culture is not offensive - certainly not to the extend that an individual is vilified for doing so.
 
daveproctor said:
Ok so you're defining gender rather than sex.

I use the terms, possibly incorrectly, as inter-changeable as do most people. Accepting the two are different doesn't change my view that using elements of another ethnic culture is not offensive - certainly not to the extend that an individual is vilified for doing so.
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Well you just moved the goalposts there a few pitches.

Using elements of another ethnic culture isn't offensive, unless done in a mocking way IMO. But using elements of ethnic cultures, and "identifying" as a different ethnicity are quite different.

And most people might use them as inter-changeable, but that just means most people are wrong.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Well you just moved the goalposts there a few pitches.

Using elements of another ethnic culture isn't offensive, unless done in a mocking way IMO. But using elements of ethnic cultures, and "identifying" as a different ethnicity are quite different.

And most people might use them as inter-changeable, but that just means most people are wrong.
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No - I didn't move the goal posts. I perhaps used 'clumsy' outdated language in my original post which I have tried to explain subsequently.

I usually make a point of avoiding controversial subjects, such as this, as it almost always brings out the pedants lurking in the shadows looking for an argument.
 
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Hanley said:
I must just be getting old as I really don't see what the problem is.
If it isn't racist, offensive or derogatory in any way then who has been hurt?
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No one has been hurt.
It appears to me that there is an ever growing ignorant and malicious faction of society with a witch hunt culture who believe that everything other people do must be either racist, offensive or derogatory.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Well you just moved the goalposts there a few pitches.

Using elements of another ethnic culture isn't offensive, unless done in a mocking way IMO. But using elements of ethnic cultures, and "identifying" as a different ethnicity are quite different.

And most people might use them as inter-changeable, but that just means most people are wrong.
Click to expand...

Well that kills off most of the great comedies then!
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Gender identity is a social construct, ethnicity is a genetic definite. You can't just choose to be a different ethnicity, just like you can't choose that 1+1 doesn't equal 2.

But gender is entirely a social construct and several cultures have had more than 2 genders for a long time.
Click to expand...
People have gone one step that way and some are even identifying as being disabled.

en.wikipedia.org

Rachel Dolezal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

metro.co.uk

Able-bodied woman wants surgeon to make her paraplegic

Using a wheelchair is not something able-bodied people normally dream of doing – unless they’re Chloe Jennings-White.
metro.co.uk metro.co.uk
 
arclight said:
It appears to me that there is an ever growing ignorant and malicious faction of society with a witch hunt culture who believe that everything other people do must be either racist, offensive or derogatory.
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That's about the size of it.

On the other hand, there are genuine problems emerging with our ability to alter our appearance. The ticking time bomb at the moment is sex change surgery and consmetics. XX chromosome women are in some cases very concerned about XY chromosome men, who present as women, intruding into their spaces. This may appear to some as illogical but it's a genuine concern to them. There's also a seperate question about XY athletes competing in womens' sports.

My special advisor on the subject (AKA Mrs F.) says that women will generally be suspicious unless they are reassured that the person has been fully changed and is no longer functionally male.
 
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