Bit of a blow for the RSPCA ?

[Cobra]

The RSPCA should be stripped of its powers to routinely prosecute animal welfare cases, according to MPs.

The Commons environment committee said there was a "conflict of interest" between the charity's power to prosecute and its role in investigating cases, campaigning and fund raising.


"We are extremely proud of our near 200 years of experience investigating and prosecuting animal cruelty and our 92% success rate - which is currently a higher percentage than the CPS," he said.

But Tim Bonner, Chief Executive of the Countryside Alliance, who have been critical of the RSPCA, told the Today Programme: "The RSPCA is in a position that no other private organisation is.

MORE HERE

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

They can't prosecute directly up here. not sure how that impacts on the level of successful prosecutions though.

 

[Cobra]

They can't prosecute directly up here. not sure how that impacts on the level of successful prosecutions though.

Is "Up here" North of the border?
If so I don't think that the SSPCA is actually part and parcel of the RSPCA

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Is "Up here" North of the border?
If so I don't think that the SSPCA is actually part and parcel of the RSPCA

Yes, Scotland.
I know they're separate, but it was in regard to the fact it's not the SSPCA that actually prosecute

 

[Cobra]

I know they're separate, but it was in regard to the fact it's not the SSPCA that actually prosecute

I guess you were refering to this bit *?
I didn't know that, but then not living up there, there is no reason I should, I guess.
Wiki say's
*The Scottish SPCA is, a specialist reporting agency to the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. This enables it to lay reports for prosecutions, given there is no effective system of private prosecution in Scotland

 

[Garry Edwards]

My view is that they prosecute purely to raise their own profile and to con even more gullible little old ladies into leaving them money, instead of doing something useful with it, and they also greatly exaggerate their own costs, to make even more money.
And in carrying out these prosecutions they frequently ignore (or fail to understand) the true interests of the animal.

For example, they prosecuted a man who drowned a squirrel that he had live trapped - OK, that was wrong, he should have either shot it or hit it hard with a spade, but according to the "experts" from the RSPCA the squirrel should have been transported to a vet... Ridiculous!

So I agree, they shouldn't prosecute, it should be left to a professional body.

 

[Cobra]

My view is that they prosecute purely to raise their own profile and to con even more gullible little old ladies into leaving them money,

I've said that for years, they only seem to go "after" high profile cases that will gain them lots more sympathy donations.

For example, they prosecuted a man who drowned a squirrel that he had live trapped

This one? and I like the way they picture a red rather than a grey!

magistrates in Burton, Staffs, decided that killing by drowning caused unnecessary suffering, an offence under the Animal Welfare Act. The ground-breaking case was the first brought under the Act over a non-domestic animal.

Mr Elliot, from Branston, Staffs, was given a six-month conditional discharge and ordered to pay £1,547 to cover RSPCA costs.

Had Mr Elliot followed Forestry Commission advice that squirrels should be caught in a sack and killed with a single blow to the head, he could have been in breach of the law for “bludgeoning” the animal.

An RSPCA spokeswoman added: “If he had disposed of it in a more humane way, such as taking it to a vet, then we wouldn’t have an issue.”

 

[LCPete]

I am a supporterof the RSPSA But agree cases like the squirrel one don't help their cause
They are good at what they were set up to do help neglected animals and should stick to that
They do need to be able to prosecute for cruelty though in cases of neglected dogs for example
The country side alliance is a pro hunting lobby (correct me if I'm wrong please) so will have an axe to grind against the RSPSA

 

[Cobra]

The country side alliance is a pro hunting lobby (correct me if I'm wrong please) so will have an axe to grind against the RSPSA

The Countryside Alliance (CA) is a British organisation promoting issues relating to the countryside such as farming, rural services, small businesses and country sports, aiming to "Give Rural Britain a voice"

I'm not a fan of fox hunting , but I support the CA. as you can see, its not the be all and end all of who they are.

 

[LCPete]

The Countryside Alliance (CA) is a British organisation promoting issues relating to the countryside such as farming, rural services, small businesses and country sports, aiming to "Give Rural Britain a voice"

I'm not a fan of fox hunting , but I support the CA. as you can see, its not the be all and end all of who they are.

Ahh I see thanks didn't know that
Agree with you on fox hunting I'm not exactly a fan of that either

 

[Graham W]

The Countryside Alliance (CA) is a British organisation promoting issues relating to the countryside such as farming, rural services, small businesses and country sports, aiming to "Give Rural Britain a voice"

I'm not a fan of fox hunting , but I support the CA. as you can see, its not the be all and end all of who they are.

I do remember the Countryside Alliance marching in London over the fox hunting issue, but I must have missed their actions over the closure of rural pubs and post offices.

 

[Cobra]

I do remember the Countryside Alliance marching in London over the fox hunting issue, but I must have missed their actions over the closure of rural pubs and post offices.

I suppose they maybe a little RSPCA-esque in some ways, and only the high profile cases get media coverage.
Pre-ban )2002)estimates..
The jobs of some 12,500 people are sustained by fox-hunting, either directly or indirectly.
The people who would lose their jobs pay some £20million in Income Tax and National Insurance - the equivalent of 4pence a litre on petrol and diesel tax.
The Treasury would also face increased expenditure on unemployment benefit and, for example, on helping agriculture with the costs of disposal of dead farm animals (at present the hunts usually collect them free or for far less than knackers).

As I said, I'm not pro fox hunting, but that's a lot of people out of work, compared to the local pub and or post offices.

So as above only ( I assume) the high profile cases get a mention.

 

[nickEnackEnoo]

As I said, I'm not pro fox hunting, but that's a lot of people out of work, compared to the local pub and or post offices.

Why are they above finding new areas to work in, like the rest of us?

 

[Cobra]

Why are they above finding new areas to work in, like the rest of us?

After 14 years Perhaps they are/ have perhaps they are still claiming income support ... who knows, I said I support the CA however I'm not their PR manager.

 

[arclight]

RSPCA is funded by voluntary contributions.
CPS & Police use taxpayers money.

RSPCA have almost 100% conviction rate
CPS has about 80% conviction rate.

If the police are brought into the loop that will see many complaints not getting as far as the CPS.

Why is change proposed. Who will benefit ............ not the taxpayer, that is for sure, and a lot of rotters who maltreat animals.

 

[neil_g]

If the police are brought into the loop that will see many complaints not getting as far as the CPS.

Sometimes for good reasons.

I've reported stuff to the rspca and nothing got done. Yet prosecuting a guy over a squirrel? Boils my pee.

 

[nickEnackEnoo]

Why is change proposed. Who will benefit ............ not the taxpayer, that is for sure, and a lot of rotters who maltreat animals.

One of the many petitions I usually ignore on my facebook, suggests it "is to protect huntsmen from prosecution in fox hunting and other blood sports that is banned as it is a well known fact that Government want this important animal protection act repealed."

 

[Garry Edwards]

RSPCA is funded by voluntary contributions.
CPS & Police use taxpayers money.

RSPCA have almost 100% conviction rate
CPS has about 80% conviction rate.

If the police are brought into the loop that will see many complaints not getting as far as the CPS.

Why is change proposed. Who will benefit ............ not the taxpayer, that is for sure, and a lot of rotters who maltreat animals.

The RSPCA has a 92% conviction rate, not enormously more than the CPS
Who will benefit? Well, this shouldn't be about the money but, all things being even, the taxpayer would benefit if a proper authority (presumably the CPS) were the ones to be awarded costs, not the RSPCA.

And an important quality of a public prosecution service is that everyone is treated equally under the law. We know that this doesn't always happen in practice, with wealthy and powerful people getting special treatment, but the principle holds good and it works most of the time - but the RSPCA doesn't hold itself to this or any other standard. The concern themselves nearly exclusively with pet cats, dogs and horses, cruelty to other species doesn't seem to matter to them and the only prosecution of non-domestic animals that I know of is that famous grey squirrel and another case where badger digging was involved, but where they mixed up their investigating, anti cruelty and prosecuting roles and presented false evidence to the Court...
Farm animals, where there can be an enormous amount of cruelty (mainly through neglect) doesn't seem to interest them at all - could this be due to a possible conflict of interest, because they make so much money out of farmers? What about slaughterhouses?

Many years ago the police used to be responsible for investigations, charging and prosecutions, and in fact what we now know as the magistrates courts used to be called the police courts, normally these police courts were in a "separate" building right next door to the police station, so the public didn't have much confidence in the impartiality of the magistrates. This system led to obvious conflicts of interest, so we now have a police force that investigates, an independent CPS that decides whether or not to take the case to court and an independent courts system. It isn't perfect but it's much better IMO than the old system, and all that is now suggested is that the RSPCA should follow a similar system.

 

[Mr Bump]

RSPCA my arse, high profile will robbers.

 

[viv1969]

RSPCA my arse, high profile will robbers.

How so?

 

[nilagin]

Sometimes for good reasons.

I've reported stuff to the rspca and nothing got done. Yet prosecuting a guy over a squirrel? Boils my pee.

Why? Unless the blokes bird feeders were in his living room, the squirrel was doing no harm at all and certainly not a nuisance. Good on them I say.

 

[Gremlin]

I have no time at all for the RSPCA after a couple of unjustified dealings with them many years ago, both reports by malicious neighbours,
yet when I contacted them about a genuine cruelty case they weren't interested, they only go after easy targets

 

[Graham W]

The jobs of some 12,500 people are sustained by fox-hunting, either directly or indirectly.
The people who would lose their jobs pay some £20million in Income Tax and National Insurance - the equivalent of 4pence a litre on petrol and diesel tax.
The Treasury would also face increased expenditure on unemployment benefit and, for example, on helping agriculture with the costs of disposal of dead farm animals (at present the hunts usually collect them free or for far less than knackers).

And, of course non of that applies to steel workers, coal miners or anyone else in what used to be manufacturing industries.

 

[neil_g]

Why? Unless the blokes bird feeders were in his living room, the squirrel was doing no harm at all and certainly not a nuisance. Good on them I say.

Other than them being classified as vermin by the Wildlife and Countryside Act of 1981? And to quote The Squirrel Initiative control and trapping guidelines:

Why control Grey Squirrels?
The Eastern Grey Squirrel (Sciurus carolinensis) is a native of North America. It was
first released in the UK in 1876 and has now spread across most of the country. It is a
destructive pest causing serious damage to trees through stripping bark, to songbird
populations by predating nests and to our native red squirrel which it has driven from
90% of the British mainland. Unless the advance of grey squirrels is checked, red
squirrels will shortly become extinct on mainland Britain and Ireland.
Grey squirrels are therefore controlled for both conservation and commercial reasons:
to prevent or reduce damage to younger trees, to protect wild birds and other wildlife
and to prevent the extinction of red squirrels in Britain and Ireland.

Source: https://www.nationalforest.org/document/reports/ESIGreySquirrelTrappingGuide.pdf

 

[Gremlin]

And, of course non of that applies to steel workers, coal miners or anyone else in what used to be manufacturing industries.

But those job losses weren't caused by passing a law
They were caused by people wanting cheaper supplies

 

[Cobra]

And, of course non of that applies to steel workers, coal miners or anyone else in what used to be manufacturing industries.

Tangent irrelevant ...
The clue is in the name countryside alliance.

But those job losses weren't caused by passing a law
They were caused by people wanting cheaper supplies

Exactly

Other than them being classified as vermin by the Wildlife and Countryside Act of 1981?

And have a destruction notice.

Why? Unless the blokes bird feeders were in his living room, the squirrel was doing no harm at all and certainly not a nuisance. Good on them I say.

From the bird feeder to the drain pipe / wall from the wall under the roof tiles, into the loft, there goes your electrics ( like all rodents they chew anything) your insulation that they pull up to build their dreys,
same for roofing felt. urine and faeces, in abundance, destroyed stored items, such as books, receipts, clothes, Christmas decorations ( actually forget the last one )
Plus it sounds like the Third Reich moving around up there especially at night.
Yeah they are cute and cuddly no harm in them whatsoever!

 

[nilagin]

From the bird feeder to the drain pipe / wall from the wall under the roof tiles, into the loft, there goes your electrics ( like all rodents they chew anything) your insulation that they pull up to build their dreys,
same for roofing felt. urine and faeces, in abundance, destroyed stored items, such as books, receipts, clothes, Christmas decorations ( actually forget the last one )
Plus it sounds like the Third Reich moving around up there especially at night.
Yeah they are cute and cuddly no harm in them whatsoever!

Sounds like someone needs to buy them self a house that has been built properly and not by cowboys.

 

[Cobra]

Sounds like someone needs to buy them self a house that has been built properly and not by cowboys.

As a Pestie I see this all the time, new houses, old houses, and everything in between.
They push up under the tiles, chew through facia boards and more.
No house is rodent proof.

 

[nilagin]

As a Pestie I see this all the time, new houses, old houses, and everything in between.
They push up under the tiles, chew through facia boards and more.
No house is rodent proof.

The squirrels around here must be more civilised then. They seem to act like well behaved pets, very domesticated and tame.

 

[Cobra]

The squirrels around here must be more civilised then. They seem to act like well behaved pets, very domesticated and tame.

If people are feeding them, of course they will act "tame" especially this time of year, as it gets colder they need to stock up for their periods of torpor.
About now is the time they will be heading for lofts / wall cavities which ever is easiest to access

 

[Garry Edwards]

As a Pestie I see this all the time, new houses, old houses, and everything in between.
They push up under the tiles, chew through facia boards and more.
No house is rodent proof.

I agree, a few years ago we had a grey in our loft, it caused enormous damage to wiring etc and every now and then, usually when everyone was asleep, it used to come downstairs to eat our food - we didn't mind it earning a living but the amount of damage it caused, and the amount of food that we had to throw away was unbelievable.

I often used to sit there reading with an air rifle at the ready but it never appeared when I was waiting for it. Then one day it went outside for a stroll, and jumped from the eaves or whatever they're called to a nearby tree, which was a big mistake as I was walking by at the time with a 12 bore

 

[Cobra]

Then one day it went outside for a stroll, and jumped from the eaves or whatever they're called to a nearby tree, which was a big mistake as I was walking by at the time with a 12 bore

Job done

And that's the other thing, lot of people don't realise exactly how far they can jump, as you pointed out, close by trees are also an excellent highway into *your* house

 

[border_all]

As a dog and animal lover I confess that the RSPCA are really my cup of tea I certainly think they do some good work only thing is they think money grows on trees

Other than that my vies ain't strong I can say if I was leaving money for charity in my will it would not be the RSPCA

 

[border_all]

Forgot I do like snakes

 

[Cobra]

Forgot I do like snakes

What are you after ?

 

[viv1969]

Best dog I ever owned was an RSPCA rescue.
They bought a successful prosecution against her previous owner for neglect and abuse.

She was a six month old GSD...rail thin, patchy coat, cigarette burn scars on her muzzle.
It was a month before she'd make eye contact for any length of time.

She lived to be 14 years old and died 2 years ago. I still can't bring myself to replace her.

Do the RSPCA have faults? Of course they do all welfare organisations (animal or human) do.

I'm certainly not going to climb on a high horse and outright condemn them, as fools are prone to do.

 

[Garry Edwards]

As a dog and animal lover I confess that the RSPCA are really my cup of tea I certainly think they do some good work only thing is they think money grows on trees

Other than that my vies ain't strong I can say if I was leaving money for charity in my will it would not be the RSPCA

Yes, they do do some good work, and people who hate everything that they stand for (me) should always remember that there are in reality two separate RSPCA's...
There are the people on the ground, these include inspectors who don't earn a lot and who have to put up with a lot of abuse and who have to tread a very fine line as they have absolutely no official status or powers. I would also include local branches, some just raise money for HQ, others do a great deal of animal welfare work, all of which is totally unpaid, and they also have to pay a very hefty annual subscription to HQ.

And then there's the HQ, one of their senior officers once described them as the civil service of the animal world. There's a great deal that I can say about what they do or don't do to help animal but I won't because I don't want to get sued. All that I will say on the subject is that I have a lot of experience of them, their attitudes and the way in which they control things because, a long time ago when I was naive and ignorant, I was the chairman of a local branch. Strangely (at that time at least) it wasn't necessary to actually be a member to be a branch chairman, although that may or may not have changed.

We had a minor disagreement and I have the honour of being the first (and probably the only) officer of theirs to be forcibly removed from one of their bigwig meetings, I was carried out by security staff, who didn't know that photographers from all of the nationals were there waiting for it to happen I also have the honour to be banned for life from membership, even though I have never been a member. But, at the end of the day they won, they grabbed our bank account and also grabbed all of the legacies that had been left not to them but to our specific branch, and they disbanded our branch.

 

[border_all]

Yes, they do do some good work, and people who hate everything that they stand for (me) should always remember that there are in reality two separate RSPCA's...
There are the people on the ground, these include inspectors who don't earn a lot and who have to put up with a lot of abuse and who have to tread a very fine line as they have absolutely no official status or powers. I would also include local branches, some just raise money for HQ, others do a great deal of animal welfare work, all of which is totally unpaid, and they also have to pay a very hefty annual subscription to HQ.

And then there's the HQ, one of their senior officers once described them as the civil service of the animal world. There's a great deal that I can say about what they do or don't do to help animal but I won't because I don't want to get sued. All that I will say on the subject is that I have a lot of experience of them, their attitudes and the way in which they control things because, a long time ago when I was naive and ignorant, I was the chairman of a local branch. Strangely (at that time at least) it wasn't necessary to actually be a member to be a branch chairman, although that may or may not have changed.

We had a minor disagreement and I have the honour of being the first (and probably the only) officer of theirs to be forcibly removed from one of their bigwig meetings, I was carried out by security staff, who didn't know that photographers from all of the nationals were there waiting for it to happen I also have the honour to be banned for life from membership, even though I have never been a member. But, at the end of the day they won, they grabbed our bank account and also grabbed all of the legacies that had been left not to them but to our specific branch, and they disbanded our branch.

And that largely covers money grows on trees they remind me of trade unions, local areas try hard to help but the HQ have other ideas and say our greed is more needy than your region.

Perhaps in addition HQ interference with pet lovers I find disagreeable perhaps the way they have lacked action on crufts and done less controlling in breeding

 

[Anubis]

I think it's a shame that an organisation like the RSPCA that once did such good work in animal welfare was hijacked by left-wing animal rights lunatics and used to push a political agenda. There's no question that those who mistreat animals should be prosecuted, but it shouldn't be by the RSPCA. They're all in favour of prosecuting those who hunt but strangely on, for example, cruel methods of slaughter that cause suffering to many thousands more animals than the control of vermin, they are merely 'pressing for change'.