Birmingham cars could be banned from driving through city centre

[wyx087]

Garages closing because of changing demand patterns, that’s natural progression.

Being forced out of business because the ability for their customers to gain access to their business is not natural progression though and because your views are so narrow minded, you can't accept that.

Have you considered another reasons for garages to be no longer needed? Instead of just blaming anyone and anything that would affect car use.

Have you considered it is a change in people's preferred way of travelling? Or are you only narrowly concentrating on your own personal preference:

I enjoy driving no matter where I am

 

[Pound Coin]

So do tell us what you feel will be different in 10yrs time. You keep wanting to return to the thread in 10yrs, but to what end? Stop your silly obtuse remarks and actually make a statement.
I would like to think I would still be a member of this forum in 10yrs time, but I can't commit to it let alone being committed to return to a thread on a forum which may not even exist in 10yrs time. I may not even exist in 10yrs time.

Look, it is very simple.

You have tried to trash predictions and you are happy carrying on your performance car life, with added aftermarket accessories, appearing to believe that there is no climate crisis, everything is hunky dory and will be.

I'm suggesting we come back in 10 years time and see where things are. Yes, it is entirely possible that the forum won't exist, or we won't, That doesn't stop you putting a note in your calendar now, to review where the world is on the things that you say aren't happening, in ten years time.

You, for some reason, don't really want to commit to that.

 

[DK602]

Look, it is very simple.

You have tried to trash predictions and you are happy carrying on your performance car life, with added aftermarket accessories, appearing to believe that there is no climate crisis, everything is hunky dory and will be.

I'm suggesting we come back in 10 years time and see where things are. Yes, it is entirely possible that the forum won't exist, or we won't, That doesn't stop you putting a note in your calendar now, to review where the world is on the things that you say aren't happening, in ten years time.

You, for some reason, don't really want to commit to that.

I'll happily come back in ten years - laugh loudly at you for being brainwashed about c02 but you still won't accept it you will just reply 'it's taking longer' like you did earlier in this thread when I posted all the incorrect predictions!

In fact I don't know of one prediction that has come true - I've seen a lot of fudged figures to try and make it look like it's true but REAL science doesn't rely on fudged fugues!

I never remembered Einstein fudging figures to prove relativity?

Meanwhile YOU do believe the [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] but you are still happy to spend your leisure time increasing your carbon footprint by using electricity and buying luxury items - how very,very odd!

 

[Deleted member 49549]

I'll happily come back in ten years - laugh loudly at you for being brainwashed about c02 but you still won't accept it you will just reply 'it's taking longer' like you did earlier in this thread when I posted all the incorrect predictions!

In fact I don't know of one prediction that has come true - I've seen a lot of fudged figures to try and make it look like it's true but REAL science doesn't rely on fudged fugues!

I never remembered Einstein fudging figures to prove relativity?

Meanwhile YOU do believe the b****x but you are still happy to spend your leisure time increasing your carbon footprint by using electricity and buying luxury items - how very,very odd!

Re Einstein, actually he did. Please read up on the cosmological constant.
He added the constant to make the theory work with the them current view that the universe was static. He then abandoned the concept after Hubble discovered the universe was expanding. Further observations have suggested that there may still be need for the constant if the expansion of the universe is accelerating.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant?wprov=sfti1

 

[Deleted member 49549]

I'll happily come back in ten years - laugh loudly at you for being brainwashed about c02 but you still won't accept it you will just reply 'it's taking longer' like you did earlier in this thread when I posted all the incorrect predictions!

In fact I don't know of one prediction that has come true - I've seen a lot of fudged figures to try and make it look like it's true but REAL science doesn't rely on fudged fugues!

I never remembered Einstein fudging figures to prove relativity?

Meanwhile YOU do believe the b****x but you are still happy to spend your leisure time increasing your carbon footprint by using electricity and buying luxury items - how very,very odd!

PS, i note that you are a fan of Hans Rosling. Perhaps worth listening to the opening sentence in this video...

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Look, it is very simple.

You have tried to trash predictions and you are happy carrying on your performance car life, with added aftermarket accessories, appearing to believe that there is no climate crisis, everything is hunky dory and will be.

I'm suggesting we come back in 10 years time and see where things are. Yes, it is entirely possible that the forum won't exist, or we won't, That doesn't stop you putting a note in your calendar now, to review where the world is on the things that you say aren't happening, in ten years time.

You, for some reason, don't really want to commit to that.

Our friend is a great example of who is running the said city councils. This by far our greatest problem in this fight.

 

[nilagin]

Have you considered another reasons for garages to be no longer needed? Instead of just blaming anyone and anything that would affect car use.

Have you considered it is a change in people's preferred way of travelling? Or are you only narrowly concentrating on your own personal preference:

Who said they weren't needed or their was a change in peoples preferred method of travel.
I merely said that if they were to ban cars from our town centre, it would close down several businesses. Businesses that probably have a higher turnover in a day than others do in a week.
Perhaps you should stop being selective and taking things completely out of context.

 

[nilagin]

Look, it is very simple.

You have tried to trash predictions and you are happy carrying on your performance car life, with added aftermarket accessories, appearing to believe that there is no climate crisis, everything is hunky dory and will be.

I'm suggesting we come back in 10 years time and see where things are. Yes, it is entirely possible that the forum won't exist, or we won't, That doesn't stop you putting a note in your calendar now, to review where the world is on the things that you say aren't happening, in ten years time.

You, for some reason, don't really want to commit to that.

I can commit to coming back to this thread in 10yrs time, but at present it will only make you look foolish, because all you have done is ramble on without a totally committing to a statement about what will happen in 10yrs.
So there is nothing to commit to.

 

[nilagin]

Look, it is very simple.

You have tried to trash predictions and you are happy carrying on your performance car life, with added aftermarket accessories, appearing to believe that there is no climate crisis, everything is hunky dory and will be.

I'm suggesting we come back in 10 years time and see where things are. Yes, it is entirely possible that the forum won't exist, or we won't, That doesn't stop you putting a note in your calendar now, to review where the world is on the things that you say aren't happening, in ten years time.

You, for some reason, don't really want to commit to that.

Where have I said I have aftermarket accessories?
I have provided facts and figures that prove that cars are not a significant factor in CO2 or pollution levels. But apparently that is just a typical response from a privileged westerner.
Not sure why you would figure I was privileged, unless you mean fortunate to actually being educated, in which case, thanks for the praise.

 

[Deleted member 49549]

I'll happily come back in ten years - laugh loudly at you for being brainwashed about c02 but you still won't accept it you will just reply 'it's taking longer' like you did earlier in this thread when I posted all the incorrect predictions!
...

As an FYI, that list was collated by a group funded by ExxonMobil and which had the former Exxon CEO on the Board of Trustees. It curiously omits the very accurate climate models and how closely they track actual observations.
If somebody could have an E- grade for partiality regarding climate change and C02 it would be them !

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Where have I said I have aftermarket accessories?
I have provided facts and figures that prove that cars are not a significant factor in CO2 or pollution levels. But apparently that is just a typical response from a privileged westerner.
Not sure why you would figure I was privileged, unless you mean fortunate to actually being educated, in which case, thanks for the praise.

No Neil you really haven't 'proven' that. If you are referring to post 175, was that where you claimed that UK has more cars on the road than China? China probably has close to 10 times the number in the UK. Care to share your source? Or have you misread 250 million as 25 million? Easily done, i mean what is two hundred and twenty five million between friends....

....
The UK alone has approximately 10 million more cars on the road than China, yet the UK's CO2 emissions are way below that of China.

 

[nilagin]

No Neil you really haven't 'proven' that. If you are referring to post 175, was that where you claimed that UK has more cars on the road than China? China probably has close to 10 times the number in the UK. Care to share your source? Or have you misread 250 million as 25 million? Easily done, i mean what is two hundred and twenty five million between friends....

My mistake, the figure I saw for China was for the number of cars built in China in 2018.
But the USA has a similar number of cars to China and yet China's Carbon footprint is twice that of America, adding the UK America figures together will give more cars than China and the CO2 output is still less.
But the part about over all pollution remains unchanged, America, UK and China do not fall in the top 10 worst countries for pollution, and those 10 countries aren't renowned for personal car ownership.

 

[DK602]

PS, i note that you are a fan of Hans Rosling. Perhaps worth listening to the opening sentence in this video...

Nope - no fan of him - it was a link posted by someone else in another thread.

Out of interest what do you think caused climate change prior to the burning of fossil fuels?

And here is my predictions:
You voted labour
You are a remoaner.
You are a socialist politically.

Any correct?

The climate models are only accurate when every figure entered into them is fudged!

Bit like saying 2+2=5 is accurate; it's only one off after all!

 

[wyx087]

Out of interest what do you think caused climate change prior to the burning of fossil fuels?

Climate change is happening all the time, Earth is an ever changing planet. But carbon emissions used to be in a delicate balance between animals and plants.
Fossil fuel is in essence buried carbon, something not meant to be released into the atmosphere so quickly. Burning it in large scale releases large amount of carbon into the atmosphere, creating an imbalance, thus creating more temperature increase than if things were in balance.

Conservative and UK as a whole have recognised this and signed the Paris agreement. Cars is not the number 1 contributor to carbon emissions, but reducing fossil fuelled car usage is in the top list of things we, as public, can do to contribute meeting the Paris agreement.

Who said they weren't needed or their was a change in peoples preferred method of travel.
I merely said that if they were to ban cars from our town centre, it would close down several businesses. Businesses that probably have a higher turnover in a day than others do in a week.
Perhaps you should stop being selective and taking things completely out of context.

Cars banned from city centre -> change in people's preferred way to travel into city centre -> reduced number of cars -> change in demand pattern -> garages becomes not needed.

 

[Pound Coin]

Given nialgin shows such concern for garage businesses that may be lost as a result of city centre vehicle bans, perhaps he could mourn the profitable businesses that were devastated by the growth of car use. Perhaps he could look at links between government ministers and the motor industry. Perhaps he could look at the subsidisation of the motor industry, and maybe the cartels and other dubious business practices that helped the motor car dominate across the world. Perhaps too he could investigate if price fixing by supermarkets and bypass building has devastated the smaller, independent filling stations.

 

[nilagin]

Cars banned from city centre -> change in people's preferred way to travel into city centre -> reduced number of cars -> change in demand pattern -> garages becomes not needed.

But if you read the earlier posts, it would close down businesses. The church would no longer be able to hold weddings, several undertakers would no longer be able to run cars, our local post office depot would no longer be able to hold parcels for people that they had been unable to deliver. The many charity shops would close down as people wouldn't be able to drop off large donations, people would have to take a 3 mile detour to get around the town. Access to the local crematorium and burial plots would be vastly reduced. Our town has very few real shops left open as it is. Our council has done away with 1/2hr free parking and put the parking fees up, businesses are being hit, people aren't getting a bus instead or walking, the place is getting to be a ghost town as people are going elsewhere instead.

 

[Pound Coin]

So, have you done something about it? Presumably you fought the council? Im assuming from what you say that you don’t shop out of town, or online.

 

[nilagin]

Given nialgin shows such concern for garage businesses that may be lost as a result of city centre vehicle bans, perhaps he could mourn the profitable businesses that were devastated by the growth of car use. Perhaps he could look at links between government ministers and the motor industry. Perhaps he could look at the subsidisation of the motor industry, and maybe the cartels and other dubious business practices that helped the motor car dominate across the world. Perhaps too he could investigate if price fixing by supermarkets and bypass building has devastated the smaller, independent filling stations.

What businesses suffered from the growth of car use. Blacksmiths for a start, became car mechanics they expanded their businesses.
Growth of the use of the motor car has expanded, and created more businesses than has been killed off.
Do you work? Have you ever worked? I bet if you really thought about it there would be an element of that job that was created because of use of the car. There are probably things you do each and every day, things you enjoy doing, all made possible by the use of a car.

 

[nilagin]

So, have you done something about it? Presumably you fought the council? Im assuming from what you say that you don’t shop out of town, or online.

I only use one petrol garage and that is it. None of the shops in my town sell anything I would want to buy.
I don't drink coffee, I don't eat takeaways or fast food, I have no need for charity shops, etc. But other people who live in or around the town do. But as you ask there have been several demonstrations at the local town hall and petitions raised, the most recent, just last week at a hearing and the council aren't interested in even reinstating the free half hour. Even though their parking revenue has fallen dramatically.

 

[Pound Coin]

What businesses suffered from the growth of car use. Blacksmiths for a start, became car mechanics they expanded their businesses.
Growth of the use of the motor car has expanded, and created more businesses than has been killed off.
Do you work? Have you ever worked? I bet if you really thought about it there would be an element of that job that was created because of use of the car. There are probably things you do each and every day, things you enjoy doing, all made possible by the use of a car.

You aren't very well read or informed, are you.

Now I realise what your posts are based on. Lack of knowledge other than in your narrow world.

Go out and learn things, it will do you good.

 

[Pound Coin]

I only use one petrol garage and that is it. None of the shops in my town sell anything I would want to buy.
I don't drink coffee, I don't eat takeaways or fast food, I have no need for charity shops, etc. But other people who live in or around the town do. But as you ask there have been several demonstrations at the local town hall and petitions raised, the most recent, just last week at a hearing and the council aren't interested in even reinstating the free half hour. Even though their parking revenue has fallen dramatically.

Sorry, but that doesn't wash. You moan about what is happening to your town, yet don't use its businesses, and you rely on others to fight for it. Pathetic.

(edited to remove rogue apostrophe)

 

[DK602]

Climate change is happening all the time, Earth is an ever changing planet. But carbon emissions used to be in a delicate balance between animals and plants.

So, climate change is happening all the time - which I agree with and why the fraudsters have constantly changed the name of their eco war from global warming to climate change.

Long before we were burning the fossil fuels Earth's mean temperature was much higher, there was no Ice at the poles on several occasions and CO2 levels were four or five times higher than today's levels - what caused this?

Bio diversity during these times was much greater than now and life on the planet flourished.

Can I ask what are the plans to stop us returning to this scenario as climate change happens without the burning of fossil fuels.

 

[DK602]

Sorry, but that doesn't wash. You moan about what is happening to your town, yet don't use it's businesses, and you rely on others to fight for it. Pathetic.

You moan about mans influence on the climate and how we have only 10yrs but YOU refuse to accept the points I raised earlier about using luxury goods and electricity - you are such a hypocrite!

 

[Pound Coin]

So, climate change is happening all the time - which I agree with and why the fraudsters have constantly changed the name of their eco war from global warming to climate change.

Long before we were burning the fossil fuels Earth's mean temperature was much higher, there was no Ice at the poles on several occasions and CO2 levels were four or five times higher than today's levels - what caused this?

Bio diversity during these times was much greater than now and life on the planet flourished.

Can I ask what are the plans to stop us returning to this scenario as climate change happens without the burning of fossil fuels.

You need to include a bit more detail in your information. Like the speed of climate change. It has never changed like this before.

 

[Pound Coin]

You moan about mans influence on the climate and how we have only 10yrs but YOU refuse to accept the points I raised earlier about using luxury goods and electricity - you are such a hypocrite!

I never said we only have 10 years. You made that up to suit your narrow minded approach.

 

[DK602]

You need to include a bit more detail in your information. Like the speed of climate change. It has never changed like this before.

Yes it has - it's chaged far quicker than it is doing.

But answer the question - how do we stop naturally occurring climate change where temperatures have been much higher? The current temp. changes are full of fudged figures that are very inaccurate.

 

[Pound Coin]

Yes it has - it's chaged far quicker than it is doing.

But answer the question - how do we stop naturally occurring climate change where temperatures have been much higher? The current temp. changes are full of fudged figures that are very inaccurate.

Detail, please, on the emboldened bit.
Thanks.

 

[nilagin]

You aren't very well read or informed, are you.

Now I realise what your posts are based on. Lack of knowledge other than in your narrow world.

Go out and learn things, it will do you good.

My knowledge is quite broad based thank you very much, probably a result of being western and privileged, as you so kindly pointed out.
Isn't it odd that facts and figures are presented to you to prove you wrong, yet you still rubbish such evidence, without actually providing any evidence to prove otherwise. You just make a noise and try to insult people.
So far you have proved from your supposed broad based knowledge, you actually know fiddly. Your life must be so insular from only reading and acknowledging stuff that fits your ideals, you are actually incapable of your own thoughts and imagination to actually process and apply the information logically.
No response or denial to my comment about how even your lifestyle is still improved by cars even though you may not have one? Are you scared I can find several reasons for you?

 

[DK602]

Detail, please, on the emboldened bit.
Thanks.

You need to answer my question first! Plans for stopping the naturally occurring climate change we have seen in the past.

 

[Pound Coin]

You need to answer my question first! Plans for stopping the naturally occurring climate change we have seen in the past.

OK, so you don't have any detail. You should just admit it.

 

[Pound Coin]

My knowledge is quite broad based thank you very much, probably a result of being western and privileged, as you so kindly pointed out.
Isn't it odd that facts and figures are presented to you to prove you wrong, yet you still rubbish such evidence, without actually providing any evidence to prove otherwise. You just make a noise and try to insult people.
So far you have proved from your supposed broad based knowledge, you actually know fiddly. Your life must be so insular from only reading and acknowledging stuff that fits your ideals, you are actually incapable of your own thoughts and imagination to actually process and apply the information logically.
No response or denial to my comment about how even your lifestyle is still improved by cars even though you may not have one? Are you scared I can find several reasons for you?

Go on, read up, you know you can do it. Educate yourself.

 

[nilagin]

Go on, read up, you know you can do it. Educate yourself.

How about I educate you.
Current global CO2 levels are around 410ppm, yet in the earths history testing has shown similar and higher levels of CO2, levels so high it is estimated to have been in the region of 5000ppm, more than 10 times it's current level, yet here we are.

 

[wyx087]

https://xkcd.com/1732/

 

[nilagin]

OK, so you don't have any detail. You should just admit it.

Still more noise and evading questions I wonder why?
We could get a more intelligent and worthwhile answer out of my 5yr old neice than we get from you.

 

[wyx087]

How about I educate you.
Current global CO2 levels are around 410ppm, yet in the earths history testing has shown similar and higher levels of CO2, levels so high it is estimated to have been in the region of 5000ppm, more than 10 times it's current level, yet here we are.

And where there humans back then?

If you love to keep things as they were, just like businesses on high street. Why so desperate to accelerate the change of climate?

 

[Pound Coin]

Still more noise and evading questions I wonder why?
We could get a more intelligent and worthwhile answer out of my 5yr old neice than we get from you.

No need for the silly insults, they just make you look like a child in a tantrum.

Take up the challenge and educate yourself about the history of the motor vehicle in society. Then, by all means, come back and debate about the poor businesses that are being damaged by this ghastly proposal.

 

[DK602]

OK, so you don't have any detail. You should just admit it.

Certainly no answer from you!

 

[Pound Coin]

Certainly no answer from you!

Also looking like a child in a tantrum.

Please show the evidence that in the past climate has changed as fast as it is changing now, and, perhaps, the cause back then too?

Thanks.

 

[DK602]

I really can't be bothered with this - we won't change each others minds!

No predictions have come true - IMO you are a very gullible socialist who has been brainwashed and I am sure your opinion of me is similar.

 

[DK602]

Also looking like a child in a tantrum.

Please show the evidence that in the past climate has changed as fast as it is changing now, and, perhaps, the cause back then too?

Thanks.

So so so pathetic! You expect everyone to answer to you but refuse to answer them!

I refuse to feed the leftie troll anymore