Birds in flight....

jerry12953

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Jeremy Moore
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I'm about to have a go at birds in flight for the first time.

For the time being I'll be using a 40D with 70-200 lens and x1.4 converter, giving me an equivalent of about 450mm.

I may splash out on the 100-400 zoom or rent one for a week or two.....and use it with a 5Dii, with or without converter....

It looks like I should be using AI servo mode.....uncharted territory for me .....

Should I be looking at faster and/or bigger CF cards?...I'm currently using fairly bogstandard 2 GB Extreme III or 4 GB ultra II 's......

I'm sure everyone has their own preferences but what would you suggest? Are there any websites I should be looking at?
 
Try....

- AI Servo
- Centre point only (If the background is clear you might try all points, but you must remember to first establish focus with the centre point so that the camera knows where your subject is within the frame. However, if your subject is too small it can slip between points, meaning that a single point is preferable)
- Back button focusing (do not use the shutter button for AF - you can, but I don't find it as good)
- 1/1000 minimum shutter speed (ideally)
- Aperture wide open
- ISO to suit
- I prefer manual exposure but shoot as you feel comfortable.
- IS turned off
- High frame rate but short bursts
- Shoot raw for flexibility in sharpening, NR and exposure tweaks

You'll need to be skilled at following the bird accurately and keeping the focus point on it - preferably its head/eye area if you can. If you lose track on the bird then (very) quickly release the AF button, before the camera goes hunting for a focus target, reacquire the bird and then resume focusing. If the bird is flying across your field of view then you may not need to AF track it continuously, since the distance will barely be changing. You can find focus, then track for a bit without focusing, then bump the focus again when yo uare sure you have the AF point on the bird.

Shooting BIF is tough. Try to pick fairly easy practice targets, such as gulls, to get you started, or any large, slow moving bird that is easy to track. If you struggle then don't be disheartened. Practice will pay dividends, but don't try to run before you can walk. Shooting against a clear sky should prove much easier than shooting against busy backgrounds, which can fool the AF into focusing on it. Good light - bright front lighting should make things easier for the camera to focus well.

Here are some links you may find helpful....

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/index.php
http://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=441
http://www.birdforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=292
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=122

Here are some examples with my 40D, taken either with my 70-200 or 100-400....

20070925_141657-1_LR.jpg


20070925_154838-1_LR.jpg


20080425_120524_3385_LR.jpg


20080714_121353_6163_LR.jpg


20080803_140842_6336_LR.jpg
 
Thanks very much Tim. I shall read all that again and inwardly digest it ( as they say) and probably try my technique (!) out on some common species before going for the real thing.....

I will also remember the suggestion you've made before to take the equivalent of an incident light reading and stick to that!

Will have to look into back button focussing. Is it a custom function?

Any thoughts on CF cards?
 
Back button focusing is set up with a custom function, but I can't remember where it is located - you'll have to hunt it down.

There an article here from Canon on back button focusing - http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2286&fromTips=1

and a long discussion thread here - http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46965.

My metering/exposure approach for BIF would be to set a manual exposure either by....

- spot metering from my palm at + 1 1/3 if my scene included (partially) white birds;
- spot metering from my palm at + 2 1/3 if my scene only contained neutral or dark subjects/surroundings;
- spot metering the brightest part of the subject/scene (possibly the sky, if whiteish, or a swan's brightest feathers) at +3
- look at the scene before me and spot meter from a tone that I felt I could place reasonably accurately where it belongs within the camera's dynamic range
- I will endeavour never to underexpose, and will be happy to expose as far to the right as possible, without putting important highlights at risk

If in doubt, just chimp a test shot and tweak if necessary. If the light is steady then the beauty of manual exposure is that once you are locked and loaded you can get on with your shooting without fussing over exposure controls.

If the light is changing frequently then you might well give up on manual exposure and hope autoexposure will net you what you need, but you will need to be prepared to fiddle with EC as the background changes, and would probably be better off with a metering mode other than spot. I'd probably just opt for evaluative metering and let the camera take the strain. although I might jiggle the EC dial a bit if shooting into a bright sky.
 
Mornin' Jeremy,

There's not much to add to Tim's advice apart from adding another vote of confidence in the 40D in such situations.

Most of the BIF shots I've done have been up at Nant-yr-arian and it's as good a place as any to practice (especially since it's free and the Red Kites are fed every day). :)

Give me a shout if you fancy taking a wander around there one afternoon.
Take care,
Si

3376574803_f54fff610b.jpg
 
I don't think you need to read it all. :) But you will probably find that once people try it, and get used to it, they prefer that style of focusing. I tried it fairly early on in my DSLR days and initially didn't like it and I reverted back to shutter button focusing. A while later, having read so many endorsements for the technique I gave it another go and became hooked.

There are rare circumstances where I do briefly switch back to the shutter button for AF, perhaps when performing lens AF microadjustments, but for virtually all my real world shooting I focus only with the rear AF-On button.
 
My eyes just glaze over when I read too much of this stuff....the only way is to try it out, I know.....

My problem is I've been doing something the same way for - ooh - about 32 years, so trying something new is a bit scarey.....

old dog, new tricks scenario....
 
Probably the main advantage from back button focusing is that you can leave the camera in AI Servo mode, for rapid reaction to a subject that suddenly starts to move, but easily simulate One Shot focusing if you want to focus and recompose. And you can do that simply be either pressing the AF-On button or not. There is no need to change focusing modes, or take your eye from the viewfinder in order to check you've ended up in the right mode (and avoided the dreaded AI Focus mode).

Picture this - bird perched on branch. You are in AI Servo mode. You focus on the bird and then let go the AF-On button. Now you can recompose as you wish. In fact you can take a breather, and perhaps wait several seconds, or a minute, for the bird to preen or turn just as you would like it. Focus remains right where you want it. At last you have the shot you want and you press the shutter button. Suddenly the bird takes off. Since you are already in AI Servo mode you can simply track the bird and press the AF-On button to follow it.

Now, with focusing on the shutter button, what are the options? If you want to focus/recompose then you must be in One Shot mode. So you focus on the bird, recompose, and wait. You get fed up waiting. You don't want to continue holding a half press on the shutter button for 60 seconds, but you have to or you will lose focus lock and when you next perform a half press you will need to focus/recompose again, possibly missing the moment. Now the bird takes off. But you are in One Shot mode. Oh b****r!. Now it's a whirlwind of flurrying to get the camera into AI Servo mode so that you can track it. Oops. Too late. Bird gone.

Here's another real world example. I was second shooter at a wedding and had my 40D and 200mm lens on a tripod at the far end of the aisle. The B&G were at the alter with the minister between them but further away. None of the focus points lined up perfectly with one of my subjects, so I needed to focus and recompose. That bit was easy enough with the AF-On button, as it would have been with the shutter button. But it took a good long while before a moment occurred which I wished to capture. I did not want to stand there holding a permanent half press on the shutter button, or risk the chance that I would inadvertently lose pressure and then have to focus/recompose again. With my focus locked the only thing I had to do was to release the shutter button, but not worry about the AF again.

There is another reason too, which I hinted at in an earlier post. When you are attempting to track a BIF you may lose target on the bird and you will need to cease AF immediately. If you have AF on the shutter button and need to cease AF then you cannot take the shot. Also, if you are using IS, which you might well be, if you release a half press from the shutter button you will also lose IS, and when you want to take the shot you will need to wait for it to spin up again. If you retain AF on the dedicate dbutton only then you can focus on the bird while it is in your cross hairs and cease focusing when it is not. In the meantime you can continue a half press on the shutter button so that you are able to take the shot whenever you wish, and if using IS, will be able to keep it running and ready.

Another example - you're shooting in a busy place - maybe amongst a crowd, maybe footballers on a pitch, or a runner or cyclist passing you in the street. You need AI Servo because your subject is moving about. What do you do when an obstruction appears briefly - another player, a spectator, a lampost? With the AF-On button in play you can simply halt AF for a moment, but still continue to run your IS, or have your finger poised to take the shot. With AF on the shutter button you will have to release the button or focus will be drawn (very quickly) to the obstruction. Precious moments could be wasted while the AF relocates your subject, if indeed it ever gets back onto it.

Once you get used to back button focusing it is so simple. Press the button if you want to focus. Release it if you don't. Why should you be forced to operate the AF in order to release the shutter. The two operations are distinct. What if you want to meter the scene from some particular point, but that part of the scene is not where you want to focus? Having the AF operate every time you press the shutter button can be a real pain in the tits. There is a very good reason that modern cameras, and the 1 series, have a dedicated AF button. It does make a lot of sense. Most importantly for BIF photography, it is the ability to cease focusing, and yet still be able to take a shot, that can be extremely advantageous.
 
Very well explained Tim, exactly why I use it as well :thumbs:

drew
 
Just thought I should add my thanks for all the advice posted in this thread. I've never dabbled with back-button focusing, but have a feeling I'll be a convert once my camera is back from the menders. :thumbs:
 
I'm aware of the inconvenience of having the exposure linked automatically to the auto focus point, but got around it by focussing, switching the lens to manual and recomposing for correct exposure. This is a palaver but I've got used to it. Course, you could never do this with birds in flight.

What you're saying, Tim, is that you can set the Af using the AF-ON button on the back of the camera, even in AI servo mode, then use the shutter button to calculate exposure and operate the shutter?

And if you're using AI servo to track moving birds, you can instantly change to single shot mode if the bird becomes stationary, using the AF-ON button?

Just wondering then, how does this differ from the * button?

And what about AI focus mode? Does that have any use at all? I think I read someone being very rude about it in one of your links.

jerry
 
I don't think you need to read it all. :) But you will probably find that once people try it, and get used to it, they prefer that style of focusing. I tried it fairly early on in my DSLR days and initially didn't like it and I reverted back to shutter button focusing. A while later, having read so many endorsements for the technique I gave it another go and became hooked.

There are rare circumstances where I do briefly switch back to the shutter button for AF, perhaps when performing lens AF microadjustments, but for virtually all my real world shooting I focus only with the rear AF-On button.

Bang on right, I tried it some while back and loathed it. Andrew, AWP, convinced me to try again,which I did. In fairness, I did miss some fast reaction shots initially due to the habit of only pressing the shutter, now i`m used to it I won`t change back very often.
 
And if you're using AI servo to track moving birds, you can instantly change to single shot mode if the bird becomes stationary, using the AF-ON button?

No, using the AF-ON button to initialise the AF focus, then let go of it making it basically like 'one shot'

Another way I use sometimes is keep the AF focus on the shutter button but have AF Stop on the AF-ON button, so to get 'one shot' just press and hold the AF-ON button
 
And what about AI focus mode? Does that have any use at all? I think I read someone being very rude about it in one of your links.

jerry

I would recommend following the lead set by the 1 series cameras. There is no AI Focus mode included in them. You, the photographer, have to select either AI Servo or One Shot. Those are your only choices. Those are the only ones you need.

To elaborate, AI Focus starts out in One Shot mode, but if it thinks your subject is moving then it will switch to AI Servo mode. There are two things wrong with that....

1. It may not react quickly enough to sudden movement, or it may not even notice movement at all if it is slow or slight;
2. It might think your subject has started moving when actually you are simply wishing to recompose.

All in all it's just more trouble than it's worth. Your focusing shouldn't be left to (relatively) random chance. You should be picking your focus points and deciding when, where and how to focus.

If you flat out know your subject will remain static, say when shooting still life, architecture, portraits, then by all means stick the camera in One Shot mode. But if your subject is likely to move then AI Servo is your friend, and back button focusing will expand its flexibility. There is one caveat to that. One Shot mode is more sensitive than AI Servo in poor light, so when shooting a wedding service, perhaps, then One Shot will possibly improve the AF speed and accuracy. For regular shooting in reasonable or good light I find AI Servo and back button focusing to be a powerful combination that will suit every situation.
 
I'm definately going to have to give this a go, good stuff well explained :thumbs:
 
Another thanks to Tim for your (once again) comprehensive yet understandable info. Cheers mate :thumbs:

Off to have a play now, bet you the first time I try it for real, I forget to use the back button :bang: :D
 
Off to have a play now, bet you the first time I try it for real, I forget to use the back button :bang: :D

Trust me, you will.............:bang:.........:lol:

I missed the Tawny on the road eating roadkill because of it, I ain`t done it wrong since.......:thumbs:
 
Off to have a play now, bet you the first time I try it for real, I forget to use the back button :bang: :D

That's easily done when shooting with a wide angle lens (at least at first) but you'll soon notice your error with a long lens. :D

By the way, I have a 23 frame BIF sequence here, all without edits - http://picasaweb.google.com/EezyTiger/7DBIFSequence?authkey=Gv1sRgCLDs-46l9KPORg#

Shooting setup for the series was as follows. Although I was using a 7D for these I only used the centre AF point for focusing....

20100607_191534_.JPG



Plenty more BIF in this album, again with the 7D and 100-400. I was varying the AF point configuration used, as the light changed, but the EXIF will tell most of the story. Again, these are unedited. View in full screen mode (press F11 in your browser) for the best experience, since the images are quite large and the website will resize them to fit your display, losing quality as a result.

http://picasaweb.google.com/EezyTiger/1600?authkey=Gv1sRgCO-zsJ3YrIXnfQ
 
Hope Jerry doesnt mind me joining in with the thread. Thanks again Tim, the series of 23 BIF shots is impressive especially the focusing. A silly question Tim, if these were taken in one burst, I assume you held the AF-On button down all through the sequence?

Do you prefer one AF point over expanded for BIF.

You also show spot metering is used, do you find this better than partial. I ask because of the difficulty of metering with a high contrast bird such as a magpie or similar.

Cheers again :thumbs:
 
Trev, I would have kept the AF-On button depressed throughout the whole sequence, since the bird was large and fairly easy to track and I was not losing focus on the bird. Also, with the advanced AF features of the 7D and 1 series bodies the cameras can be set up to allow you a little time to get back on track, if you lose the bird from your crosshairs, before it will wander off and look for something new to focus on. Cameras below the 7D, like the 40D, 50D, 5D2 and lower do not offer that feature and thus depend on very fast reactions from the photographer to cease AF temporarily if your AF point slips off the bird.

I will vary the AF point configuration used depending on the complexity of the background. The more inviting the background for the AF the narrower I like to constrain the AF. Thus for the sequence, with all those twigs and things, often quite near the bird, I did not want the AF to get accidentally drawn to the background. Shooting against a plainer background, like the sky, I might well use more focus points. However, shooting with a long lens at wide apertures you may find that the DOF is quite shallow, and the camera could focus on the nearest wingtip, for example. leaving the bird's eye and far wing looking soft, so ideally it is best to try to use as few focus points as you can and to aim with precision at the bird's head. That is not something I am very good at, yet, but I keep practicing. I might also add that the more focus points you use the more work the camera has to do to figure out which focus point is the best to choose for focusing. The fewer points you use the less decision making is left to the camera and far less data to process. So, I would use the fewest points necessary to give me reliable results. If I was shooting swifts and swallows against a blue sky, which I've tried several times with limited success, I would use a wide spread of focus points, because the chances of me locking focus and holding it with a single focus point are about nil. Example of using Zone AF with the 7D....

20100607_204730_.JPG



I used spot metering because I shoot with manual exposure. I do not meter while shooting. I meter before shooting (see post #4 for examples of what I meter from). Therefore I get to pick where I aim the spot when setting my exposure. I would not use spot metering for BIF in any autoexposure mode. Far too much room for error there. If I was to use autoexposure, which is rare indeed, I would probably use evaluative metering, not spot or even partial.

Taking a magpie as an example, spot could easily get confused if you were using autoexposure and metering from the magpie - one minute black, the next white, the next blue sky, the next a bit of white cloud, the next green leaves. It sounds like a recipe for disaster. That is why I prefer to set a manual exposure that befits the incident light reaching my subjects. Then my exposure does not get thrown off by all those tricky variables. The meter can do whatever the hell it pleases while I am shooting. I simply ignore it.
 
That’s answered many questions Tim, thank you very much for so much detail and examples too, and thanks to Jerry for letting me join the thread. I'll have a good read of the back button focusing threads you gave the link to.
BIF has been very unsuccessful for me so far and that’s down to little experience and lack of practice. Hopefully I will be having another try this weekend and will put your info into practice. Cheers mate, its appreciated :thumbs:
 
Most of the BIF shots I've done have been up at Nant-yr-arian and it's as good a place as any to practice (especially since it's free and the Red Kites are fed every day).

Hello Spiritflier
I’ll be staying in Aberystwyth for a few days in July for my son’s graduation I’m very interested in seeing the Red Kites but I can’t find this place on the map what road is it on and what time do they feed the birds?
Thanks Brian
 
I'm pretty crap at BIF's but, I tried the back button focus option a little while ago, and I have to say, it's amazingly flexible and works far better than the shutter button on a variety of subjects.
 
Tim, that's way beyond the call of duty. Thank you very much.

Must put it into practice soon....

:clap:

:agree:

just set back button focusing on my D90, sounds like it's going to be very useful...... off now to have a play :thumbs:
 
If the composition works for you then that's what counts. Personally I would not keep a BIF image with a composition like that, but that's my personal taste. This is the kind of tricky subject where, if you were using centre point AF only, back button focusing would be perfect for releasing focusing when the AF point slipped off the subject, but the shutter button would still enable you to take the shot. However you did it, the bird looks nice and sharp. :)

It does look a bit on the dark side - the blacks are slightly clipped and the image will take over 1 stop of exposure boost in Lightroom without clipping the whites - but quite pleasing nonetheless. Did you use a CPL to darken the sky? If so, that's a nice touch, but I do think that brightly sunlit white feathers might look a bit brighter than you have them. Here's how the image looks with a +1.0 boost to exposure in Lightroom. You can see how dark the original looks by comparison.

20100621_150625_.JPG


Of course, as with the composition, it's your choice how bright to have the image, but I like my sunlit whites to portray their true brilliance, if indeed that is how they are.

I also note the file is rendered in the Adobe RGB colour space. What's the reason behind that? sRGB is the standard for web use, and using Adobe RGB on the web can cause colours to be displayed wrongly in some browsers.
 
Oh, where to start....,.

I've become aware that my monitor is giving me more vivid colours than others do. Not sure why yet....



Thanks for the comment about the colour space I'm using. I wonder if there is any relation between this and the above? :thinking:

I got plenty of sharp images of the birds in the centre of the frame as well!

I did use a polariser for a while, then took it off to give me another two stops with which to stop the action. This was taken "with" @ 1/1000th sec.

Lightroom 3 has done a great job reducing noise and very quickly too. In LR I also added black and "recovered" the highlights. That would I think account for the darkness you pointed out. It's easy to fix.

Thanks for taking the time to comment, Tim.

But I still haven't got the hang of backbutton focusing yet! I had a rogue custom function selected I think which meant that the AF-ON button didn't work at all, and a few other wierdnesses. I have since gone back to default settings so will try again next time.
 
Sorry if I've missed this but if you go to 400mm on the 100-400 with converter attatched, you'll lose autofocus at f8 surely?
 
Sorry if I've missed this but if you go to 400mm on the 100-400 with converter attatched, you'll lose autofocus at f8 surely?

Still using 70-200 + 1.4x on a 40D......and exported as sRGB ( I think).....

Although I'm on the point of ordering this lens...I'm unclear whether it works or not with a x1.4 TC.

Perhaps someone could clarify?
 
Still using 70-200 + 1.4x on a 40D......and exported as sRGB ( I think).....

Although I'm on the point of ordering this lens...I'm unclear whether it works or not with a x1.4 TC.

Perhaps someone could clarify?

it will work but

squizza's correct - on the 100-400/5.6 @ 400mm or the 400mm/5.6 with the 1.4x extender attached will make it 560mm f/8 and only on the 1D series cameras will you get autofocus.....so on 40D/50D/7D/5D etc you will have to manual focus using this option

there is a trick to sellotaping the connections to fool it to get autofocus, but I've read it's quite slow responsiveness-wise

drew
 
I note that you live in mid Wales. Can I suggest that you take yourself off to the coast, somewhere where there is length of prom or jetty, for the 3-4 hours either side of high water. This will bring the seabirds in and you will have plenty of opportunity for practising the techniques of BIF photography.

I live on Morecambe prom and a couple of hours walking up and down just practising following the birds and keeping track and focus is worth hours elsewhere where suitable birds can sometimes be a bit scarce.

May I also suggest that if you are serious about BIF then you consider the Canon 400mm f5.6. Razor sharp, fast AF and a lightweight piece of kit. No IS but affordable and sharper than the 100-400.

With an extender you do lose autofocus but with practise manual focus id just as good, especially at f8
 
I note that you live in mid Wales. Can I suggest that you take yourself off to the coast, somewhere where there is length of prom or jetty, for the 3-4 hours either side of high water. This will bring the seabirds in and you will have plenty of opportunity for practising the techniques of BIF photography.

I live on Morecambe prom and a couple of hours walking up and down just practising following the birds and keeping track and focus is worth hours elsewhere where suitable birds can sometimes be a bit scarce.

May I also suggest that if you are serious about BIF then you consider the Canon 400mm f5.6. Razor sharp, fast AF and a lightweight piece of kit. No IS but affordable and sharper than the 100-400.

With an extender you do lose autofocus but with practise manual focus id just as good, especially at f8

You're right, I should do that, and many of them would be a damn sight easier than the little terns I tried out my technique on last week. Plenty of keepers, but plenty of rubbish as well. The delete button got a hammering.
 
it will work but

squizza's correct - on the 100-400/5.6 @ 400mm or the 400mm/5.6 with the 1.4x extender attached will make it 560mm f/8 and only on the 1D series cameras will you get autofocus.....so on 40D/50D/7D/5D etc you will have to manual focus using this option

there is a trick to sellotaping the connections to fool it to get autofocus, but I've read it's quite slow responsiveness-wise

drew

So does this mean that with the x1.4 TC and 100-400 zoom AT 400mm I would lose autofocus, or at any focal length?
 
So does this mean that with the x1.4 TC and 100-400 zoom AT 400mm I would lose autofocus, or at any focal length?

Apart from the 1 series bodies all Canon cameras refuse to AF if they see a combination of lens and TC that end up slower than f/5.6. Since the 100-400 starts out at f/4.5, even at the short end, adding a 1.4X TC will turn f/4.5 into f/6.3. At the long end, f/5.6 + a 1.4X TC will give you f/8, which is clearly worse, but all combinations of TC with that lens are out of spec.

You can tape three pins on the TC, to make it invisible to the camera, which means the camera will try to AF, but results will be uncertain and probably unsuitable for moving subjects, especially subjects as tricky as BIF.

I gave up taping pins a long time ago. I do use my Kenko 1.4X with my 100-400 but only on a tripod and using Live AF to focus, which works perfectly well, or with my 1D3 if I want proper real time AF. Even with a 1 series body, when you use a lens/TC combination slower than f/5.6 the AF is limited to centre point only.

Further to all the above, if you want to turn your 400mm f/5.6 lens into a 560mm f/8 lens you can appreciate the difficulty achieving acceptable IQ, sharp and free of both noise and shake, when gunning for BIF with a handheld lens. On a camera like the 7D you will already be encroaching into diffraction softening territory, and with a target shutter speed of probably 1/1600 or more you'd need at least 400 ISO in bright sunshine in order to achieve that speed. In poorer light you might well find yourself at 800 or even 1600 ISO, and by that point your larger but noisier image will probably gain you little or nothing. Considering the loss of AF as well it is an option I prefer not to choose. Better a sharp, clean image at 400mm than a fuzzy, noisy image at 560mm.
 
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