Billingham Hadley Pro

Hello Board!

I hope you do not mind me joining your forum and interjecting with some information.

We have been contacted by members here and also by other customers who had similar concerns.

Yes, we have changed the interior materials of some of our products. This is most apparent on the Hadley series.

Why? Simply: improvement. The insert is now a better product, we feel. Bear with me while I explain....

The removable interior of the Hadley Pro (and Small, Large, and Large Pro) was made from an outer fabric (100% Polyester) an interior foam and the soft green material inside as a lining.

This green material is very good at receiving hook & loop fasteners. However, there are many downsides to it and since we introduced it, we have received a lot of criticism and requests to change it.

Far and away the biggest problem with the material is that it will begin to 'pill' relatively quickly. Small fibres start to pull away when the hook & loop tape is pulled off it. Eventually, the product becomes useless and the dividers will not attach to the material at all. Failure of this requires a replacement interior. And it will require another replacement further down the line.

The fluffy green material is made from a brushed nylon (the outer face you can see), it is bonded by heat to a polyester backing that has a woven sheet on the back. The woven part of it allows us to stitch through the material without the thread pulling through the brushed nylon face.

Although it feels nice and soft and cosy on your hands, it doesn't offer any protection to your camera equipment at all. The hard, closed cell foam inside is where the protection comes from. Soft padding just moves out of the way, decompresses and offers no support. If cameras were lighter then softer padding would work. The intended function of this material is not as a bag lining and it's feature set does not [EDIT: .... lend itself perfectly to this job.]

The foam padding is not thinner in any way. We use a standard type of foam across all of our products and this has not changed.

The interior is now made from the same material as the outer (we're still just discussing the padding interior and not the outer canvas material of the bag). Cost per metre is greater than the previous material and with the addition of more hook & loop fastening tape, the cost has been increased to give greater longevity and a more reliable product. The method used to cut out the foam panels in our factory has also been changed and is now a lot quicker and more accurate. The foam is now purchased in a different format and the work/process area has been modified to allow better, quicker and more accurate cutting of patterns. So the improvement is only partially customer-facing.

We only use Velcro branded hook & loop fastener tape in our products and this ensures both halves have a long life of repeatable operation.

I can totally understand the opinions that you have; they are all valid. I hope to assure you that this change was a genuine attempt to make a better longer lasting product and not scrape a few pennies out of the costing.

I'm here and logged in, so if there are any questions you may have, feel free to ask and I'll reply as quickly as I can!

Many thanks for all of your support. As a family we are always flattered that our products create such enthusiasm and receive so much passion from users and admirers; we can't thank you enough.

Kindest regards,

Harry Billingham.
 
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Hey Harry! Thanks for such a personal response. Indeed you raise great points.

I personally am very satisfied with Billingham for handling my claim in the professional manner they did. I for one will be a continued customer.

In fact the Hadley Pro is with me on holiday and has been pleasure to use through airports ect. I will be flying back from England to Sweden next week then off to Italy and I'm sure the bag will be excellent!

www.andyhayballphoto.com
 
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Hi Andy,

Great to hear you're a fan! I'm glad we looked after you properly, too.

I always love using a Hadley Pro while actually travelling. Nice and slim for queues and inspections and overhead bins and footwells.

Enjoy the rest of your holiday!

Harry
 
Hello Board!

I hope you do not mind me joining your forum and interjecting with some information.

We have been contacted by members here and also by other customers who had similar concerns.

Yes, we have changed the interior materials of some of our products. This is most apparent on the Hadley series.

Why? Simply: improvement. The insert is now a better product, we feel. Bear with me while I explain....

The removable interior of the Hadley Pro (and Small, Large, and Large Pro) was made from an outer fabric (100% Polyester) an interior foam and the soft green material inside as a lining.

This green material is very good at receiving hook & loop fasteners. However, there are many downsides to it and since we introduced it, we have received a lot of criticism and requests to change it.

Far and away the biggest problem with the material is that it will begin to 'pill' relatively quickly. Small fibres start to pull away when the hook & loop tape is pulled off it. Eventually, the product becomes useless and the dividers will not attach to the material at all. Failure of this requires a replacement interior. And it will require another replacement further down the line.

The fluffy green material is made from a brushed nylon (the outer face you can see), it is bonded by heat to a polyester backing that has a woven sheet on the back. The woven part of it allows us to stitch through the material without the thread pulling through the brushed nylon face.

Although it feels nice and soft and cosy on your hands, it doesn't offer any protection to your camera equipment at all. The hard, closed cell foam inside is where the protection comes from. Soft padding just moves out of the way, decompresses and offers no support. If cameras were lighter then softer padding would work. The intended function of this material is not as a bag lining and it's feature set does not [EDIT: .... lend itself perfectly to this job.]

The foam padding is not thinner in any way. We use a standard type of foam across all of our products and this has not changed.

The interior is now made from the same material as the outer (we're still just discussing the padding interior and not the outer canvas material of the bag). Cost per metre is greater than the previous material and with the addition of more hook & loop fastening tape, the cost has been increased to give greater longevity and a more reliable product. The method used to cut out the foam panels in our factory has also been changed and is now a lot quicker and more accurate. The foam is now purchased in a different format and the work/process area has been modified to allow better, quicker and more accurate cutting of patterns. So the improvement is only partially customer-facing.

We only use Velcro branded hook & loop fastener tape in our products and this ensures both halves have a long life of repeatable operation.

I can totally understand the opinions that you have; they are all valid. I hope to assure you that this change was a genuine attempt to make a better longer lasting product and not scrape a few pennies out of the costing.

I'm here and logged in, so if there are any questions you may have, feel free to ask and I'll reply as quickly as I can!

Many thanks for all of your support. As a family we are always flattered that our products create such enthusiasm and receive so much passion from users and admirers; we can't thank you enough.

Kindest regards,

Harry Billingham.
Hi Harry,

I think it's great that you respond on here.

However, if I were you, I'd have a stern talk to whoever creates your website copy or directs your e-commerce. Including such gems of information on the product pages would save you a lot of hassle. Heck, it would probably contribute to sale - "Our inserts have become more durable!"

Cheers,
Mike
 
What a nice reply from Harry, its nice to know manufacturers are interested in customers opinions and take the time to respond here. I'm looking for another Billingham bag myself, but it will probably be a used one with the old inserts.
Allan
 
Mike,

Thanks for your input. We just launched our new site a few weeks ago. Honestly, we're still chasing it trying to finish it off. Our credit card processing is going live on Monday, we're planning and text/copy is all being altered now.

We are then going to be adding a lot of new features and benefits to the site. You're right, it's been dire for too long and we're now investing heavily in it.

Allan,

We have always and will always be interested to hear what customers say about our products. We take it to heart and it makes us create better products; that's what we enjoy doing. Perhaps in the near future we can convince you to try the newer style?!

Do you all feel that it is a perception of a lack of padding that is putting you off? Did you look at the insert and feel it was lower quality, or cheaper or less capable?

Thanks to you all - enjoy your weekend; go take some pictures! Anyone got any photography planned?
 
I'm a Hadley Pro user and it's a great bag - almost the Goldilocks bag, not too big, just a teensy bit small. By that, I mean with a full frame DSLR, (5DII) located in the centre pocket, the bag is perhaps just a little too slim. I have a 5DIII, and even the addition of Manfrotto's fairly small QR plate, I feel the bag is too small, whereas with the QR plate removed, on the snug side but works ok, just not perfectly. With Canon's fairly bulky lenses, the end pockets would benefit from being just a few mm larger. Don't get me wrong - it works, is usable, but would be perfect if just 5 to 10% larger in each dimension. ie, not so much to step up to the Large or the Large Pro. Obviously if you have to squish the lenses in, then the benefits of any padding diminish. I could just buy the bigger bag, but the Hadley Large (similar price to the Hadley Pro) hasn't got a zip pocket or a handle, and is prob too big to be the Goldilocks bag. The Hadley Large Pro (not seen one in the flesh) is vastly more expensive, but includes the zippy pocket (tick VG) but loses the quick release buckles I think, which puts me right off it. Which leaves me back with my Hadley Pro - almost the perfect camera bag. Perhaps Canon FF cameras and L lenses could go on a bit of a diet :)

What I ideally need Harry (and great to see you interacting on a Photo forum), is a Hadley Pro FF Canon version! Happy to be a prototype test user :) :), and for what it's worth, the news that you've made the pill prone fluffy interior better is great news. Can the new style liners be bought separately? Simon
 
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While we have Harry's attention, IMHO what the Hadley lacks is a larger Avea option - the smaller accessory bags that hook on to the side loops of the Hadley and other Billinghams and greatly extends their capacity and versatility as and when needed http://www.billingham.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/159/category/8/

Something big enough to take a flash gun or even a 70-200/4, with the depth extended to sit flush with the bottom of the bag. I mentioned this a couple of years ago and was told Martin Billingham would make one to try, but nothing came of it.
 
Well, I succumbed and just bought a Hadley Pro. I've had a few Billinghams over the years, a Hadley original, Hadley Pro, Hadley Small and even a 335 ( I think) I sold them all when I moved from DSLR's to Fuji X's and bought a Domke F803. Fantastic bag, but not a Billingham.
Anyway, my Pro is a FibreNyte model. All my other bags were canvas, but this feels lighter and softer and more comfortable to wear....and came with the older soft insert.
I can fit my X-T1 with 55-200 attached, X-Pro1 with 18-55 attached and my X-F1 slotted in between the two dividers in the middle. Plenty of room in the pockets for batteries, SD cards, phone, chargers, cables, sandwiches, apple, Mars bar etc.
Allan
 
I have owned the Black Hadley Pro (FiberNyte) for nearly a year now. It must be the perfect back for a mirrorless system. I have in my bag the XE1 with EF-X20 flash - 5 Lenses (18-55 55-200 23mm 27mm & 60mm)' and I carry a Gorillpod and a few extras in the front pockets. It's a perfect fit, although I would struggle to fit another lens in.

Excellent quality bag, but the reason I chose it is because of the weather proofing without having to put a plastic 'jacket' on in the rain.

I would defiantly recommend a Billingham.
 
Simon,

We have been playing around with a slightly deeper Hadley Pro - so this is something that you might see in the near future.

HoppyUK - the new Hadley Large Pro has different side patches that have been designed to take larger pockets. They will also fit the current pockets; but the new ones will have double fixing points to help hold more weight.

Martin did make some and we've been in and out of testing with them but mostly we're working on form and function. Getting it to look right very often leads to something that works smoothly and simply; which normally leads to longevity and happy users!

So, I know we're not the quickest when it comes to developing products and releasing them, but this is being worked on.

Allan,

Canvas and FibreNyte are made in mostly the same way. The main difference is the top colour layer you can see on the outside. In FibreNyte, this is totally synthetic and woven from Nylon yarns. In the Canvas, this layer is a cotton/polyester mix. The Nylon is harder wearing over a longer time and will hold its colour better than cotton. We were asked for a synthetic version of our canvas, and that is what we launched. It is, really, a personal preference for the look and feel.

Our Sage / Chocolate colourway is not available in Canvas, which can tip the balance. It's a new and popular colour choice.

Hobodan,

Glad to hear you're recommending them but more that you are happy with yours! We also hate the plastic rain jackets.....

Thanks again everyone!

Harry
 
I have been watching this with interest as I am contemplating buying a Billingham Hadley Pro. However looking at the posts on this bag I am not sure if my gear would fit. I have a Nikon D800, Nikkor 28-70 lens, Nikkor 70-200 lens and flash gun along with numerous filters and other odds and sods. Do you think all this would fit in one, perhaps someone with similar gear could post up a photo with their gear installed.
 
I'm not sure how the D800 compares in height (tripod mount to pentaprism) vs the 5DIII but if similar, it should fit. I have my 5DIII in the centre with 24-70 2.8 fitted (usually), and either side I had a 70-200 f/4 and a 16-35 f2.8. I've only just taken delivery of a 70-200 2.8 so I've yet to try it in the Billingham where the f/4 went, but it should fit as occasionally I put the 24-70 in the end and that's the same diameter and I think it should just be tall enough. But see my post above - I find it all a little snug. 5-10% all around would make a world of difference for only a tiny practical increase in size. Give that 2.8 full frame lenses are all a similar size due to physics, it's just a shame it's not a tad larger. They've started making a Hadley Large Pro, but the lack of quick release buckles on that puts me off - it is these that make the Hadley Pro a joy to use. no faffing with zips, clips or other nonsense. I've got a Kata backpack that is also the perfect size - not too small, not too big, yet every inch of storage is usable, but I don't like using it because it's got annoying plastic buckles and zips to contend with that make it a real chore even just getting the camera out. All that said, the Billingham Pro is still the best bag I've bought and the most practical.
 
Simon,

We have been playing around with a slightly deeper Hadley Pro - so this is something that you might see in the near future.

Harry

Harry - that's great news - it really only needs to be of a size appropriate for f/2.8 lenses (up to say 70-200 zoom) and it would be perfect. it's not just height though - 10mm or so on the slimness dimension and 10-20mm longer would make it perfect for large diameter lenses like f/2.8 versions, and would allow a full frame DSLR to be fitted with a QR plate fitted. It's one of those things - if you make it too large the joy of the bag format will be lost, but I feel it's just a tad snug (but very usable) for a Full frame Canon and a trio of f/2.8 lenses. Given all fit in it now, you'll appreciate it doesn't need much to make it perfect. Look forward to seeing the new bag, and if you need a prototype dimensional checker, I'm your man :)
 
I'm not sure how the D800 compares in height (tripod mount to pentaprism) vs the 5DIII but if similar, it should fit. I have my 5DIII in the centre with 24-70 2.8 fitted (usually), and either side I had a 70-200 f/4 and a 16-35 f2.8. I've only just taken delivery of a 70-200 2.8 so I've yet to try it in the Billingham where the f/4 went, but it should fit as occasionally I put the 24-70 in the end and that's the same diameter and I think it should just be tall enough. But see my post above - I find it all a little snug. 5-10% all around would make a world of difference for only a tiny practical increase in size. Give that 2.8 full frame lenses are all a similar size due to physics, it's just a shame it's not a tad larger. They've started making a Hadley Large Pro, but the lack of quick release buckles on that puts me off - it is these that make the Hadley Pro a joy to use. no faffing with zips, clips or other nonsense. I've got a Kata backpack that is also the perfect size - not too small, not too big, yet every inch of storage is usable, but I don't like using it because it's got annoying plastic buckles and zips to contend with that make it a real chore even just getting the camera out. All that said, the Billingham Pro is still the best bag I've bought and the most practical.

Thanks for your very helpful answer to my query.
 
Amanda, most good retailers will let you take your kit in and try it for fit in a bag you're interested in, especially given the outlay for a good bag these days. I've done it myself at Clifton Cameras (to name but one Billingham stockist).
 
Amanda, most good retailers will let you take your kit in and try it for fit in a bag you're interested in, especially given the outlay for a good bag these days. I've done it myself at Clifton Cameras (to name but one Billingham stockist).
Bit far away from me. I never seem to find a retailer that has the whole range in stock at one time.
 
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