BIG RANT. My thread about CreamPhoto.co.uk

This is better than an Aussie soap, what a comical load of (for the most part)mis-informed drivel.
 
xil3 said:
Well, there is something called freedom of speech, and everyone has their own opinion.

And this is a forum after all... people tend to express their opinions.
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I've edited your post. That middle line *could* be seen as an incorrect assumption and *could* be libellous. I think it's best I removed it :)

xil3 said:
Isn't this a private forum though? What right do they have to come here and challenge peoples opinions with threats of legal action?

I could understand if someone made a site that specifically slanders them, or if it was publicized in a newspaper or something of that nature.
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It's not a private forum in that respect. It's a private venture, and everyone who participates does so by nature of extended (or assumed until revoked) invitation.
However, it does not matter when it comes to libel. A libel is such if the information is passed from one person to a third party. An email from one person to another could be libel too.

Chaz Photos said:
So I am taking this means there is NO Freedom of Speach in the UK?
I did not see the thread so not know what it was all about.
Can no one now say they do not like something? is this was it was all about?
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Correct, there's no such thing as free speech anyway. However, as we are a forum that displays things people write, we have a duty not to allow libellous comments on the here. As for potentially libellous comments, it's best to remove them anyway just to be on the safe side.
As for the comments about Cream Wedding Photo Ltd, we did not consider them to be libellous, just critical of their photographs.

Keith W said:
Matters not whether this is a private/privately owned forum, the owners could still be held to account

Incidentally it would be libel [the written word] and not slander [the spoken word]
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Spot on :thumbs:

dseered said:
Mate, this is not about freedom of speech, I think you will find that Marcel and others leave it right until the last minute before pulling anything - someone must have overstepped the mark on the thread, I tried not to.

If it is freedom of speech you want, go and shout in the street - this is, in effect a private forum !
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Sort of, yes. But a little bit incorrect. It's not about leaving it until the last minute. We pulled the thread as soon as we received the complaint from Cream Wedding Photo Ltd which threatened us with legal action.
We then decided it might be best to keep it removed for now anyway as it didn't fit in with our general ethos and good manners.....not because of the libel threat :)

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Just remmber, please don't make any assumptions about Cream Wedding Photo Ltd in this or any other thread, or about their motives or justification, as it may be misconstrued as libellous.

Cheers!
 
So, would it be safe to say they're a bit touchy...?

Funny they didn't see the need to excercise the right of rebuttal on here...
I'm not party to the original remarks, so obviously I can't comment with authority, but you'd think a company who percieved it's reputation as being sullied by a post here would step in to redress the balance...
 
A bit touchy? I think that could be understatement of the day...

It makes me laugh that an organisation would threaten legal action at the drop of a hat like that. Here you had a potential client and some naysayers - they could easily have got more business while enhancing their repuation.

Oh well, each to their own.
 
ding76uk said:
I got an email threatening me personally, as by the sound of it others did. Bit OTT really when my comment was a personal opinion, ah well never mind, move on.
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I didn't!!! I'm feeling quite left out now...

I wonder what the legal ramifications are....if their legal knowledge is as good as their photography....
 
I don`t know why some people get thier knickers up thier bum about other peoples photography? If Cream Photos customers see the online gallery and are happy with what they get for the money,then so be it. Don`t see the problem myself.
 
Breaker said:
I didn't!!! I'm feeling quite left out now...

I wonder what the legal ramifications are....if their legal knowledge is as good as their photography....
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Doesn't sound as if CreamPhoto are acquanted with the term Fair Comment , however you need to see thing from TP's point of view, no point in getting embroiled in a legal battle for no reason.....
 
fracster said:
I don`t know why some people get thier knickers up thier bum about other peoples photography? If Cream Photos customers see the online gallery and are happy with what they get for the money,then so be it. Don`t see the problem myself.
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Wise words.

Some folk just like having a pop for the sake of it.
I know, I have been guilty of it in the past :shake:
 
Having missed the original thread, I didn't realise who these creamphoto geezers were but now I do and I think I share the same opinion as many others!

Why do I always miss the major threads? :'(.......

Oh, uni :D

edit: I have to add they look like nice people on the site pic
I think the website needs redesigned to make it look more professional and have photo galleries instead of youtube video photos. That would spruce it up nicely.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Wise words.

Some folk just like having a pop for the sake of it.
I know, I have been guilty of it in the past :shake:
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And it is always with regards to the same subject....yep......Weddings......:lol:
 
fracster said:
I don`t know why some people get thier knickers up thier bum about other peoples photography? If Cream Photos customers see the online gallery and are happy with what they get for the money,then so be it. Don`t see the problem myself.
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IIRC the OP requested an opinion of the company in question as he (or a family member) was thinking of employing their services....People were just providing feedback...
 
Breaker said:
IIRC the OP requested an opinion of the company in question as he (or a family member) was thinking of employing their services....People were just providing feedback...
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IIRC the OP had asked for anybody with previous experience of them which is a bit different. Some of the comments on their website and work were a little out of line (IMHO) if nothing else because I think its out of line to comment publiclly on a photographer who hasn't sort your input. Equally creams reaction seems a little OTT
 
The amount of people who believe in "free speech"* never ceases to amaze me :)
 
I'm quite shocked at this to be honest. Why did CreamPhoto react to the thread in the way they did? If someone has posted saying they thought CreamPhoto's photos were awful, then why do Talk Photography staff care to remove said comments? Scared into doing so due to "legal proceedings" by said CreamPhoto? Good luck with that in court. "Yes Mr Judge somebody posted on a forum saying that my White Balance was off which has ruined my reputation". People can post what they want on a forum (obviously abiding by the rules). I do not know of a forum where a thread would be locked for speaking of an experience with another company. In fact, have you not opened a can of worms here? Why shouldn't all threads be closed if someone has expressed an opinion on another company.
 
clicktor said:
I'm quite shocked at this to be honest. Why did CreamPhoto react to the thread in the way they did? If someone has posted saying they thought CreamPhoto's photos were awful, then why do Talk Photography staff care to remove said comments? Scared into doing so due to "legal proceedings" by said CreamPhoto? Good luck with that in court. "Yes Mr Judge somebody posted on a forum saying that my White Balance was off which has ruined my reputation". People can post what they want on a forum (obviously abiding by the rules). I do not know of a forum where a thread would be locked for speaking of an experience with another company. In fact, have you not opened a can of worms here? Why shouldn't all threads be closed if someone has expressed an opinion on another company.
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there are two issues with what you've said -

firstly internet forums are subject to libel laws, same as any other written medium. I can't blame the mods for wanting to avoid this one.

secondly people didn't respond with experiences, but with opinions.
 
Can I just say, it doesn't matter whether the comments are indeed libelous or not, why should this forum have to defend itself at all? They provide us all with this great forum and it is not fair to ask them to risk legal action (whether it's justified comments or not) against them.

We are all responsible for our comments here, and if there is the slightest possibility that any comment could land the forum in hot water then the poster should not post it, simple as that, again it's just not fair. The forum is supposed to be for like minded people to discuss their favourite topic, it's provided free of charge for us all to use, and I for one don't like how some people seem hell bent on causing trouble here, it's senseless :cuckoo: Give the mods a break, they have done what is right for the forum as a whole.
 
neil_g said:
out of interest shouldnt the forum have a disclaimer about not being held responsible for members comments or posts? (i couldnt spot it in the t&c's?)
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I am not sure any such disclaimer would stand up legally.
 
As a side note, it is nice that canonrebel came and apologised for his accusation in the original post of this thread....oh, no, wait a second.....
 
I have done quite of lot of research on this. It all depends whether anything written in the thread is libellous. If everything is true and can be proved to be so, then you have no problem. If it is not true, and the person in question can prove that to be so, you may have some liability as publisher if you continue to publish the offending statement. The fact that you have disclaimers on every page does not, I think, absolve you from responsibility. The publisher is not however liable if he removes the offending statement immediately upon notification of the complaint. The offended party may still have a case against the original author of the statement.

From a mate who knows.
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
I am not sure any such disclaimer would stand up legally.
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No, it doesn't.

After my run in with a well known scam online electronics "retailer", I did some research and found a lot of information on the money saving expert forum, they were threatened with legal action over it, despite having said disclaimer, and had to retract ALL the comments and basically grovel to the company involved to avoid court action. This is a huge forum with lots of backing from some big names and they had to bow to the libel laws.

Like I said, why should Talkphotography have to worry about such things?
 
fracster said:
I have done quite of lot of research on this. It all depends whether anything written in the thread is libellous. If everything is true and can be proved to be so, then you have no problem. If it is not true, and the person in question can prove that to be so, you may have some liability as publisher if you continue to publish the offending statement. The fact that you have disclaimers on every page does not, I think, absolve you from responsibility. The publisher is not however liable if he removes the offending statement immediately upon notification of the complaint. The offended party may still have a case against the original author of the statement.

From a mate who knows.
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thats OK mate, but libel in the UK is expensive to defend and is pretty much the only part of UK law where the defendant has to prove innocence, rather then the claimant proving guilt. Its expensive and messy and for the sake of one dubious thread best avoided

Hugy
 
Damn, missed all the fun............ again.

Should not have a life.
 
A personal opinion is just that, if you start pulling every thread everytime sombody grumbles you might as well close down now.
I'm rather supprised TP's folded so easily.
 
swanseamale47 said:
A personal opinion is just that, if you start pulling every thread everytime sombody grumbles you might as well close down now.
I'm rather supprised TP's folded so easily.
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This policy (if you can call following the law a policy) has always been in place, and unless I am dreaming it the forum seems to be surviving pretty well!
 
boyfalldown said:
thats OK mate, but libel in the UK is expensive to defend and is pretty much the only part of UK law where the defendant has to prove innocence, rather then the claimant proving guilt. Its expensive and messy and for the sake of one dubious thread best avoided

Hugy
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Agree completely.Best just bin the thread rather than have long legal crap being thrown about.
 
clicktor said:
I'm quite shocked at this to be honest. Why can't CreamPhoto take the criticism? If they were a good company and believed in themselves then they wouldn't have reacted in the way they did surely? If someone has posted saying they thought CreamPhoto were awful, then why do Talk Photography staff care to remove said comments? Scared into doing so due to "legal proceedings" by said CreamPhoto? Good luck with that in court. "Yes Mr Judge somebody posted on a forum saying that my White Balance was off which has ruined my reputation". People can post what they want on a forum (obviously abiding by the rules). I do not know of a forum where a thread would be locked for speaking of an experience with another company. In fact, have you not opened a can of worms here? Why shouldn't all threads be closed if someone has expressed an opinion on another company.
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No, see below.

Ste Manns said:
Can I just say, it doesn't matter whether the comments are indeed libelous or not, why should this forum have to defend itself at all? They provide us all with this great forum and it is not fair to ask them to risk legal action (whether it's justified comments or not) against them.

We are all responsible for our comments here, and if there is the slightest possibility that any comment could land the forum in hot water then the poster should not post it, simple as that, again it's just not fair. The forum is supposed to be for like minded people to discuss their favourite topic, it's provided free of charge for us all to use, and I for one don't like how some people seem hell bent on causing trouble here, it's senseless :cuckoo: Give the mods a break, they have done what is right for the forum as a whole.
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again, see below

Ste Manns said:
No, it doesn't.

After my run in with a well known scam online electronics "retailer", I did some research and found a lot of information on the money saving expert forum, they were threatened with legal action over it, despite having said disclaimer, and had to retract ALL the comments and basically grovel to the company involved to avoid court action. This is a huge forum with lots of backing from some big names and they had to bow to the libel laws.

Like I said, why should Talkphotography have to worry about such things?
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To clarify, we didnt pull the thread because someone threatened legal action for libel, we pulled the thread because someone was having a pop at someone without the other party having a chance to respond, it was a rude post and a couple of the other posts hopped in. The thread had already been locked and was actually in the process of a clean when the email came in. As marcel said, we are waiting for clarification on what opinion was supposed to be libellous
 
swanseamale47 said:
A personal opinion is just that, if you start pulling every thread everytime sombody grumbles you might as well close down now.
I'm rather supprised TP's folded so easily.
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see my last post.

:)
 
Is this still going? Time to break out the doritos and dip.
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
As a side note, it is nice that canonrebel came and apologised for his accusation in the original post of this thread....oh, no, wait a second.....
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What do I need to apologise for?

all I did in the original post was ask if anybody had used creamphoto, all further posts were by people who had looked at their website and made comments about what they saw, It was not my intention to have them berated by all and sundrie but that is what happened. All I wanted was some basic information on them.

I was not informed that my post was being locked or deleted, and made an assumption that possibly the mod that had deleted the thread worked for creamphoto (now known to be a wrong assumption).

MESSAGE TO MODS....PLEASE LOCK THIS NOW AT SEEMS TO SERVING NO PURPOSE NOW.
 
canonrebel said:
What do I need to apologise for?

all I did in the original post was ask if anybody had used creamphoto, all further posts were by people who had looked at their website and made comments about what they saw, It was not my intention to have them berated by all and sundrie but that is what happened. All I wanted was some basic information on them.

I was not informed that my post was being locked or deleted, and made an assumption that possibly the mod that had deleted the thread worked for creamphoto (now known to be a wrong assumption).

MESSAGE TO MODS....PLEASE LOCK THIS NOW AT SEEMS TO SERVING NO PURPOSE NOW.
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for suggesting that the thread was removed because one of us worked for the subjects of the thread. That was not called for, and I was offended in the extreme that you think that we would do something like that. Also, we dont have to notify anyone when a post is removed, the thread in question was out for cleanup only so was likely to end up back on the forum anyway
 
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