Being realistic

markyboy.1967

markyboy.1967

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Mark Molloy
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Being realistic--what would the costs be of a decent photo printer( reliable), software etc to print at events.

Im getting asked more and more often now to attend dog shows as the official photographer. I dont do them as i understand the need to print on site.Tonight again i got an offer of around 8 shows per year from one committee member of a dog club and i have refused several lately due to lack of print facilities.

I believe i would need a printer capable of printing good quality prints( possibly 9x6, 10x8 etc) but do it cost effectively. Paper, inks, software etc etc would need to be thought about as well. Watching others at dog shows then i would estimate anything from 15-50 dogs depending on show size and if its a breed specific show or not..

So what equipment other than camera, batteries etc do i require?
 
A computer, someone to drive the computer. Windows or mac it doesnt matter but finding people who can use windows is easier than mac. not that there is much difference once you have the software up and running

Software your not going to be doing a lot of work on the images so lightroom is perfect and not too expensive, but you can use the likes of picassa as well.

Printer, a dyesub its the only way one that prints 9x6 should be fine as it will do the smaller sizes as well. Don't bother with wet ink its just too slow and costly.

Other things you will want to be able to work as quick as you can so fast cards and card readers can help.
Decent card reader and a backup, its very easy to bend pins when your trying to do things quickly the lexar pro usb3 one is good.
multiple fast memory cards, I would have 3 as a minimum, one at the print desk being imported, one in the camera one in the pocket ready to be swapped.

Next you think how will people see the images, some people print thumbnails on inkjet printers, Printing inkjet expensive ink and not very quick, heads get clogged if not used often and can be messy when transported about. Viewing stations, 2,3,4 laptops or pc's even dumb terminals have an initial outlay but none/very small ongoing costs. The 9x6 printer option not carrying extra kit about clean and the customers get an idea of the print quality but your printer is tied up when it could be printing sales and isn't the cheapest if you have an itchy shutter finger.

I mentioned it earlier the person to drive the computer, you can't really shoot and sell. while you are shooting people will want to be buying, if your selling there will be things to shoot, if you don't have the photos you can't sell them so you need a 2nd person to work with you either on the computer or the camera.
 
Thanks for that.So far i have the camera gear, the lights, some knowledge of the breeds and how they should be stacked( owners will keep the dogs right anyway). I wont have people forming a large queue for images but more expecting around 25-35 per show( 5hrs ) so i expect i can let them see the images and talk them through which ones they want to buy.I agree it would be much better and easier with another person so that i can get on with taking pics or finding candidates.

How much would the printer cost? How much for ink, paper etc?Remembering i might only be printing 25-50 images per day that its used( so not mass volume)

I already have the correct insurances in place so that would be the issue
 
A second hand Mitsubishi 9550DW would be ideal for what you want. The model is now discontinued for some reason but all media is still available.

There's one on the bay at the moment currently only £41 but will probably rise a bit more than that. See the LINK HERE

Paper and ribbon for 9x6 prints are about £100'ish plus vat all readily available from most print retailers. Can't remember how many images you get in a roll, probably about 300 so at £10 a pop a couple of functions will pay for your paper and hopefully the printer too.

We have even used one for reprints for weddings and all sorts as well as passport, visa, driving licence, blue badge and general id pictures.

If your budget is tight this is an ideal opportunity to start quite cheaply as an alternative printer will cxost in the region of £1000
 
A secondhand 9550 would be the last thing you would need, way out of date that is why it is discontinued.

You could start with Picassa which is free from software angle or step up to Lightroom which will do everything you need.

Dye Sub printers generally print up to 9x6 (favoured by event photographers) or up to 12x8 which tend to be a later purchase.

Dye Subs use media that comes in a pack of colour ribbon and receiver paper to match.

Mike
 
For printers check the guys who sell them system insight and photomart, £800 gets you the Hi-Ti P510L or pay more and get the one with the screen built in and card slots for pc free printing.
They use a roll of film and a roll of paper, you buy them as a pack that the film has a set number of print on it and the paper has enough to print that plus a fair bit more for cleanning feeds when you insert the roll (allows for swapping of paper, it spits out a few peices to ensure the paper is finderprint and dust free) cost per print varies 30-40p per print is about right plus a mount. bought in small numbers your looking at about £1 per unit sold.

So do these shows last 5 hours or will you have 5 hours to sell? 5 hours to sell 25 is very easy, 50 is good going 1 every 6 minutes. if thats all your doing but people do take their time to decide which images they buy and unless you have a good way to let them choose their images you will end up with everyone round your one pc looking through your images and not move untill they have their print in their hand.

Now if your shooting for 5 hours then selling everyone will have gone home by the time you have sold 5 prints as you won't have the chance to sell from thumbnails. Even with breaks between heats, they disapear very quickly between getting the images to the pc, printing thumbs, getting the thumbs displayed, grabbing a drink or bite to eat, swapping cards, formatting the card before you go out to carry on shooting. You can't not shoot every performance normally as they will do different things and the owner will probably want the one session you skipped. ohh and never miss finals and presentations. Which add to the end of day as you gotta shoot and get the image soon the pc as soon as you can.
 
A second hand 9550 would be the last thing you would need, way out of date that is why it is discontinued.
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Why? on a budget I think it's a winner, easy access to media, even your old company still sell it (the media) along with hundreds others. There are probably thousands still in use today!
 
Thanks for the input guys.I dont have a budget as such however looking at say 35 images at £15 per show on average( i already have a main job bringing in earnings so this is a part time thing), then i would need to recoup the cost of printer, software, print consumables etc within a resonable timescale.If i could pick up a decent printer 2nd hand that was reliable then i would be looking into the shows as a viable option.

What type of printers should i be looking at that are cost effective and available on the 2nd hand market at reasonable cost? I dont need something that is particularily quick or able to print lass mass quantities at a time.
 
Brian, sorry but event photography is not a side line for me, it is what I do - I think it was good in its day, but its day is long since gone - not a case of thinking for me but knowing.

Mike
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Which printer would you recommend then Mike? always good to know if ever we need another. We have a few proms and a couple of event type jobs booked for this year.
 
More a case of what to avoid.

Hiti 710 and Olmec OP1000 because media is not available or at an end.
Mitusbishi 8000 for same reason and 9550 because it has had its day
Sony 150 also end of media I believe (Sony gave up producing Dye Subs)
Kodak 1400 and 9800 all Kodaks as they have left the arena
Hiti 730 as not man enough for the job

Unfortunately dye sub printers are built for commercial work so current models tend to command a good price

The good choices are things like Mitsubishi 9800, 9810 (but would not personally use due to weight) and the 70/707 models, The Hiti 510 and DNP DS40 (I have demoed for DNP and been using for years) The last 3 are of similar spec and are the current models.

Fuji and Ask have current models, both based on same machine and quality from Fuji is good - not seen an Ask. Citizen have also been behind the scenes on other makers models and have good printers.

The real answer is if in doubt contact the suppliers like Photomart or System Insight and ask about the media situation.

Mike
 
Mike, what would you suggest to look at in the lower budget bracket?As said im just possibly starting and trying to keep costs to a minimum to see how viable it is...Must be able to print 9x6, decent print quality, doesnt particularily need to be fast but above all needs to be reliable either new or 2nd hand bargains.
 
The thing is Mark you need somthing that is quick, you don't have the time to mess about waiting for somthing to print, even 30 seconds on our 9550 is an age compared to jobs I do for others who are using DNP DS40's and the HiTi 510's and 2nd hand they don't really go for bargain prices your still looking at about £400 and probably it will be empty of media so another £90 ish for a roll of 6x9 media.

There isnt a cheap way to set up, we tried it buying 2nd hand the 2 printers we got were knackered causeing more problems while on jobs than anything from miss feeding, to moaning they had the wrong media in it just slowed things down and made us look unprofessional with customers queueing up to buy prints. if they have to wait to long they walk off. I know you say its only a part time thing (same for me) make a bit of extra cash but if you do it the right way you will make more money becasue you have the capacity to sell. The job I was on on Saturday night using our own kit I was thinking I really need to replace the PC as its getting a little slow now it just wasn't able to keep up with me and it wasn't particulalry a busy event.

and where is the £15 per show comming from? your not going to be selling these things at cost are you? 35 prints is £350 at £10 a time your printer should have paid for itself after 4 shows a roll of media usually gives you 300 prints that is up to £3000 worth of income for an £1100 outlay. Yes there are all other costs involved and paying commision to event organisers if they are asking for it. And don't forget once you have the kit you can be out all the time shooting other events.

Mike Weeks knows what he is doing, I have a bit of a clue due to gaining some experiance before jumping in even then I made mistakes but you learn and pass the knowledge on so others dont slip up like I did.
 
Sorry that s meant to read £15 per image.:thumbs: I just need to weigh up start up costs and running costs. I know what your saying about 2nd hand printers but if I know its came from a good home and the savings over new were significant then it might sway it for me. I would feel more comfortable spending £400 on a printer than buying new for say £1k-- but no guarantee might put me off, I just need to think for a bit.
 
A little lesson my wife taught me is:
get the right kit once, not the wrong kit twice - no matter how good a bargin it seems to be.
 
The problem with 2nd hand is that as we found out even a slight knock (dropped) can send the paper path of and you end up with a huge doorstop, I think it is still in my mates shed if you want it, it is no use at all, the guy who had owned it before us dropped it, if you applied some preasure to the front corner it would print ok which is what he did when we tested it, we just thought he was resting his hand on the printer. had it checked out and it got slightly better with some bending but the jams just were a nightmare. It almost cost us even more as the usb port on the back was damaged due to the guy leaving the usb cable attached in the flight case which I think would have been a cost £90 to be replaced, again it worked if you got it in the right place but we just gave up and bought a new one in the end after the 2nd job. The first printer we bought got trashed by the couriers delivering it.

If your unsure try and team up with another event photographer and see how it goes for a few events. if you were closer down this way I would offer but your a little too far away.
 
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very interesting read, im in a similar boat myself. I'm currently working part time as the resident tog at two motocross tracks. I only sell from my website and mostly downloads and i do sell quite a lot but I'm getting asked more and more about onsite printing so thinking i may go down this road at some point, im pretty sure i could make a good profit if i can sort out the logistics of doing it as the riders are pretty hyped up after a good days riding and would be interested in taking a nice print home with them..

i work alone and this is where things will get tricky as can't do two things at once..
 
Im in a similar situation but im hesitant to make the jump at the moment. I have refused several jobs of late because of the onsite printing side of things. I did a few and made very little due to not printing at the time. I think 2 things stand out for me at the moments and they are the need to have a partner on board and the initial start up costs.As i said i would be happier spending £300-£400 on a printer than £1k but after reading comments about 2nd hand equipment it worries me.
 
I started covering events at the beginning of 2012 after years of freelancing, spent the summer 2012 season doing web only and building up a reputation but more and more enquiries were coming in asking if I did onsite, which at that time I didn't. In Sept '12 I bought a DNP DS40, a laptop from the for sale bit on this forum and started to print on site. The printer paid for itself in 3 shows. My summer season is now fully booked with different riding clubs, district shows, a competition venue and I still have a bit of freelance work on the odd weekend I had nothing major on (which I enjoy doing).

To start up on a basic level you'll need a dye sub (decent one!), 1 laptop as your master computer, 1 viewing laptop, website, gazebo & generator if you are doing events outdoors (I bought my first genny 2 weeks ago as got through the winter doing indoor events, it's fab). 1 table, someone to run your stand (my family help me, mum dad and brother are all trained to do it!). I also have a photography student from the local university come and help me. And insurance, that is vital.

At the end of the day if you don't put the money in at the beginning how can you get money out of it? It's not cheap to set up properly but do it right and the work will find you. I've only enquired about covering 2 events this year, the rest of my work has been off the back of other events I've covered. Good luck!
 
It's something I do need to seriously start to look at, one of the mx tracks I work out of is part of an action park and have off roading and quad days, paint balling climbing walls etc etc and have many group days and stag days etc so further possibilities there as well as the MX.

I have a large van, one laptop and a large monitor so part way there. Finding the right helper/partner may not be that easy to do though...
 
markyboy.1967 said:
Is the Copal DPB 1500 any use for events? The one i have been offered has been serviced and cleaned-no warranty though and 2nd hand.Is media readily available for thi? Last question--what is the going rate of this unit on the 2nd hand market?
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Photomart appear to still sell the media but check that the right drivers are available for your operating system- no use buying a printer that only has drivers available up to XP or vista if you're running on 7.

I think Copal printers are very heavy I was offered one when I started up but declined and saved a bit more for a DS40... so glad I did.
 
I built a PhotoBooth for weddings and I'm using the Fuji ASK300 inside of it. Its not quite as fast as the Mitsubishi or the DNP (10 secs instead of 8 secs for a 6*4) and the Max print size is 8*6 instead of 9*6. Its also one of the lightest around at 12kg.

I print 6*4's and an extra 2 secs doesn't matter so for me its a perfect option as its about €200 cheaper than the others mentioned above. The media is also a similar price to others so the cost per print is excellent. Its another one to consider anyway.
 
As others have mentioned you are better off buying a new printer rather than a second hand one, as you might have problems in finding the media, especially if the printer has been discontinued, as well as other issues.

You may want to consider buying the DNP DS40 printer, it is not very cheap but it has a relatively low cost per 6x9 print (currently works out at around 29p), and it is also quite light to move around.

It would probably be best to use a laptop, and you can buy a program such as the Exan ID and Event Software to do some simple edits and print the photos.
 
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