Beginner cameras

[Adam-G]

Or another way of looking at the same facts would be through an economists eye.
Whilst the worldwide economy has shrunk in recent years, and sales of all consumer goods has shrunk significantly, mirrorless camera sales have remained static. Which means that in relative terms, not only have they decimated DSLR sales, but have performed very well compared to other consumer goods.

BTW, describing DSLR’s as a ‘saturated market’ in a discussion where we’re making a comparison with a rival product is disingenuous.

I genuinely don’t understand why you’re struggling to understand where this market is right now.

SUV’s, flat screen TV’s, tablets / phones to replace computers, mirrorless cameras, they’re all simply the market direction. It’s not even complicated, it’s what’s happened since the birth of the Industrial Revolution and picked up speed with the rise of consumerism.

Just like digital took over from film, phones replaced consumer digital cameras, mirrorless cameras are replacing DSLR’s.

Whether you accept it, whether it’s a good thing, or the right thing is irrelevant, it’s just factually what’s happening.

Along with all this, the market shift and the 7 billion camera phones I mentioned were conveniently ignored.

Entry level, reasonably priced products drive the majority of consumer electronic sales in any market.

There used to be a huge range of superb, entry level DSLR's coming out in annual cycles which gave starter photographers a good jumping on point. Now, camera manufacturers don't bother as they know the mobile phone market has simply crushed the entry level camera market.

You simply won't find equivalency when comparing two drastically different market places and economic periods, especially one so cataclysmically effected by possibly the biggest change in how the general public use technology of all time.

The modern smartphone has replaced portable media players (iPods etc), the family computer (remember when everyone in the early 2000s would go to use the Internet on a specified PC/Mac in the house?) and even traditional print media has took a huge downturn as people read all their news on their devices.

I get that people don't like to look at something they love being pushed by the wayside and fading away but it's what's happening whether people like it or not.

It doesn't mean that a DSLR is not a good starting point for a beginner photographer or that enthusiasts won't use them for years to come, it just means I sincerely doubt any of the top 5 manufacturers will ever release a new one and they all have stated as such.

I say this as someone who still walks around at all times with a portable digital audio player, my camera and an actual book. Just because I love these items doesn't mean I refuse to see what's happening.

 

[Phil V]

I may have had a similarly ’daft’ experience some 25 ish years ago.

Recently working in IT, I wasn’t exactly at the cutting edge of home computing but I was certainly part of the 2nd significant wave, with my Windows 95 PC. I was confidently predicting to all friends and family that this was the future, and they’d all better prepare to give up a part of their home for their very own computer workstation.

Notwithstanding I was ‘right’ for what seems like a ridiculously short time period. I would never have predicted that 25 years later I’d be hiring kids straight from school / university who weren’t really ‘computer literate’ cos basically they use their phones for 90% of what I needed a PC for, and much more besides (including of course their photography).

While I’m on a roll:
It’s to be noted that the ‘pop music’ chart is now a measure of ‘sales and downloads’ so not even sales as such.
When I was young we bought only physical discs to be counted, though of course my grandma would have told me the only real measure of a tune’s popularity was clearly sheet music sales



Composed either side of my drive to the station; so much of it written before @Adam-G post above.

 

[LCPete]

Haven’t read the whole thread but what Phil and Adam has written above made me think about when I started in 2006 moving from film to digital but still a beginner to be honest
there was such a big choice available with affordable excellent cameras from Canon 350D and Nikon D40 if I remember correctly as well as the other manufacturers, there were new improved models coming out all the time and I soon moved onto the Canon 40D
it isn’t like that now it’s a shame but I guess that’s the way it is
at the moment I’m photgraphing at the zoo a lot and it’s either guys and ladies my age with ‘proper’ cameras everyone younger is using their phones , which in my opinion aren’t even the best tool for that but that’s another discussion

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I get that people don't like to look at something they love being pushed by the wayside and fading away but it's what's happening whether people like it or not.

Some people embrace change and others reject it.

It's all part of life's rich tapestry.

 

[Adam-G]

Some people embrace change and others reject it.

It's all part of life's rich tapestry.

I'm not policing anyone's reaction to it but thanks for explaining it to me.

Others take a balanced view and hold on to what's useful to them and discard what isn't. One man's Zune is another woman's iPod or something.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I'm not policing anyone's reaction to it but thanks for explaining it to me.

That sounds rather aggressive but I'm sure it wasn't intended that way.

Others take a balanced view and hold on to what's useful to them and discard what isn't. One man's Zune is another woman's iPod or something.

One person's "balanced view" is another person's dogmatic attempt to say "only my opinion matters, here".

Again, I'm sure that's not what you meant.

 

[Phil V]

The joy of internet discussions where people can’t discern the difference between opinions and facts.

Moreover the joy of modern discourse where ‘feelings’ and ‘beliefs’ are equated with opinions.

 

[Deleted member 68495]

With all the changes in technology there is one piece of it I do hope stays for may years to come and that is the desktop PC, the bigger and faster the better. In all honesty, if I couldn't have a desktop anymore my technological life would be over. I use it for gaming, photography, and music production. It is configured into my CCTV system and the number of ethernet cables coming out and around the house is getting a little out of control -- just put another in today to a PoE CCTV camera -- I also have 5TB of storage in it and it has two large monitors attached. Phones may be getting better and better but they will never take the place of a powerful PC if only for the number of connections I require [and the heat I have to dissipate].

Of course, I will never say never though because in the future, I envisage mind/machine connections and augmented reality taking over the whole kit and caboodle -- although unfortunately not in my lifetime

 

[swanseamale47]

Well the OP gave up at I think post 11. Cant say I blame him.

 

[Deleted member 68495]

Well the OP gave up at I think post 11. Cant say I blame him.

I can. It's galling when people just pop in, ask a question, get the answer (whether it's the one they want or not) then b****r off without so much as a hint of a thank you for the information. It's just like when you hold a door open for someone and they breeze through without even a nod in your direction. It is uncalled for and whoever it is (assuming he has just 'left' and is not indisposed in any way) is just plain rude. Manners cost nothing.

Rant over.

 

[ancient_mariner]

It's a shame when threads get hijacked in order to express a particular POV instead of just helping the poster.

 

[ntz]

Ok, when we're in it and talking about my beloved DSLRs I would basically recommend

D7200 or D610/D750 - as probably cheapest option, buy used .. I had (have) all 3 cameras and I'd go with D7200 because there's no difference in IQ and aps-c lenses are cheaper and lighter
Canon 6d mk2 - cheap midrange - fantastic camera, friend of mine has it, he lent me this camera for almost year because he wanted to cast out my (Nikon) heresy .. but, but, it's Canon and we learned above that all the most nice and handsome photographers use Nikon, right ?
D7500 or D500 - moderate midrange, these are particularly very good cameras, D500 has yummy autofocus, again, second hand market with nikon-f lenses is endless, you will not go wrong if this is supposed to be your first camera to find out, where your photography tastes and apetit will go further
Nikon D850 (or Canon 5D mk4) - the best among the best (and heaaaavy) .. I would recommend rather to go with one of above if it is really your first camera ... mainly because they are heavy and truth to be said, at least with D850 it has a far more megapixels than people usually need which complicates things ... 24MPx is IMHO just a sweatspot (mostly)

In general I just love a `two-dials-ergonomy' and I recommend it .. let me throw a little rant - for this reason I just dislike (for example) the ergonomy of FUJIFILM cameras .. it's very cool idea to have separate vintage-style dials for shutter speed, ISO and (auto-)exposure compensation, but it's less practical if you wanna shoot with that .. haha, basically fujifilm (and sony) cameras are reason why there are so many videos on the internet where not the most nice and handsome photographers explain, why it is so cool to use an auto-iso (for example) ..

ps. pls don't let my rant offend you .. it was meant to entertain you instead ..

 

[Plain Nev]

Well, as a Fuji user who used auto ISO today and finds it all quite natural, that's fighting talk.

 

[ntz]

I can't recommend the D850 as it is shockingly expensive these days on the used market, awesome as it is ..

I went through D800, D810 to D850 and regarding to recommending anything - as I wrote above, everything is wrong, everything is right .. D850 is pinnacle of DSLRs .. if you like DSLRs specifically and if you're into a genre that requires a lot of megapixels there's just not camera that can compete to D850 ... however of course DSLRs are past, they are species falling unstoppably to extinction .. recommending somebody to go with DSLR is crazy ... but maybe perhaps this is the reason to do it now, or never .. DSLR cameras will bring you into the "photography" with way different experience than MILC cameras .. if OP will fall in love with the photography it's absolutely unlikely that his first camera will be his last camera, don't worry, nobody will miss anything .. I believe, that experience with DSLRs is priceless and (at least in my opinion) actually technically and feature-wise better cameras just blindfold and limit photographers in many ways ...