POAH
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what do you expect though from photography forums.
Been asked to provide photos for free, what to do?
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what do you expect though from photography forums.
a1ex2001
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It's a university society your a fellow uni student, give them the photo's for free on the condition that credit is given with a link toy your web site when ever they are used. They have no money so this isn't a money making oppertunity use it for the experience.
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The OP doesnt get to dictate what replies he gets in an open forum. .. as to reporting to the mods because someone broke some rules you made up.. well good luck with that...
I always give pictures to lower league or amatuer clubs.. they can use them for free in programs and on websites but as I ahve a print service i ask them not to distribute to players/fans/family ect.
the above is where your whole post falls on its backside.. if you dont agree with it then why do it? there your pictures..
its almost a rule in my business that clubs like this would get them for free ... but then again unlike you... i dont disagree with giving pictures for free...
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Now, I got into difficulty with this as since I was officially listed on the Uni's books for the newspaper I was their employee and as such, they owned the copyright.
You might find it's the same for you if you were working for the uni paper...
Best to check on that before you find yourself in a position where you could earn some money (ie. portraits at the grad ball!)
You might find it's the same for you if you were working for the uni paper...
Best to check on that before you find yourself in a position where you could earn some money (ie. portraits at the grad ball!)
Trev Rich
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I haven't read through all the posts as I'm due for a meeting... But wanted to say (and maybe someone already has). If you had a website, with space to sell images on say a Jalbum or something. You could have supplied thumbs for free and asked for a link.
Then the players themselves would have chance to buy the images... the Hockey Club are happy, and you get good exposure.
Then the players themselves would have chance to buy the images... the Hockey Club are happy, and you get good exposure.
kieranmcmanus
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James is right. I'm the photographer at my university at UWIC, and part of the agreement is that as I get paid a wage by them, UWIC can use the images. However I own the copyright and can sell the images to players. If you haven't agreed to anything however, then I imagine you still own the copyright.
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Thanks to everyone for the replies, I can't really comment on each one, but I will do to KIPAX's as he raised some issues that I'd like to clarify!
Fair enough. The reason for writing that was to keep the thread on topic. Giving away photos for free seems to be a bit of a contentious issue, and I was just after advice, not a debate about whether I should or shouldn't, and it's ramifications on the photography industry etc.
Here's where I probably should have been clearer. I don't hold the view that photos should never ever be given away for any reason whatsoever. There are some cases where I would, and some where I wouldn't. For example, I've been sent the blanket pseudo-flattering messages on flickr telling my my photo has been selected for use on some profit-making website, and they'd like to use it for free. This I don't agree with, they're making profit from their site, so I'm not going to give them something for nothing.
I also wouldn't give photos away for free if otherwise they'd be paying for them. For example, I was asked to take photos at a uni ball, and if I'd done that (for free), the regular company who does it (for profit) would have lost out, and I don't like the idea of killing someone else's earnings because I'm after a little experience.
As above, it's not black and white, and I probably should have elaborated a little, but that would have meant an even longer opening post. I've got in touch with their publicity officer, and I'm now waiting for his reply. I was pretty sure I was going to be giving him the photos eventually, I just wanted to make sure I didn't shoot myself in the foot by doing so and the advice on this thread will help me to make this work out best for me.
Ironically the reason I put a bit of emphasis on not wanting to give photos for free (albeit in a poorly explained way) was to try and stop the the pros having a bit of a go at me, I wasn't expecting the exact opposite!
Thanks for taking the time to reply,
Chris
Fair enough. The reason for writing that was to keep the thread on topic. Giving away photos for free seems to be a bit of a contentious issue, and I was just after advice, not a debate about whether I should or shouldn't, and it's ramifications on the photography industry etc.
Here's where I probably should have been clearer. I don't hold the view that photos should never ever be given away for any reason whatsoever. There are some cases where I would, and some where I wouldn't. For example, I've been sent the blanket pseudo-flattering messages on flickr telling my my photo has been selected for use on some profit-making website, and they'd like to use it for free. This I don't agree with, they're making profit from their site, so I'm not going to give them something for nothing.
I also wouldn't give photos away for free if otherwise they'd be paying for them. For example, I was asked to take photos at a uni ball, and if I'd done that (for free), the regular company who does it (for profit) would have lost out, and I don't like the idea of killing someone else's earnings because I'm after a little experience.
its almost a rule in my business that clubs like this would get them for free ... but then again unlike you... i dont disagree with giving pictures for free...
As above, it's not black and white, and I probably should have elaborated a little, but that would have meant an even longer opening post. I've got in touch with their publicity officer, and I'm now waiting for his reply. I was pretty sure I was going to be giving him the photos eventually, I just wanted to make sure I didn't shoot myself in the foot by doing so and the advice on this thread will help me to make this work out best for me.
Ironically the reason I put a bit of emphasis on not wanting to give photos for free (albeit in a poorly explained way) was to try and stop the the pros having a bit of a go at me, I wasn't expecting the exact opposite!
Thanks for taking the time to reply,
Chris
well I started in a similar way at Loughborough 20 years ago so I know the situation well.
a few pointers
1.ask what he needs them for - then you can crop / edit the best ones for him and get the resolution good enough for his needs - but no better
2. riddle the exit XML iptc caption data with all your details so it is embedded in the data that they are your images
3. use free software like picasa to add a discreet text watermark as it does it very well and very nicely and very readable
4. your watermark should simply be your email address. if you have a uni email then use that if it helps to flag you as "one of them"
the truth is there is no money in selling to students. you'll get kore return if you barter for beers off them for photos. in my old days it was neg contact sheets and I could sell them but with digital once they are on an online gallery students will just take them - hence watermark everything with "copyright bob@myuni.com" so at least it is marked you can also add your mobile number if you want.
hope that helps - high res for beers is the best way and always get the beer off them first before giving them the image!
a few pointers
1.ask what he needs them for - then you can crop / edit the best ones for him and get the resolution good enough for his needs - but no better
2. riddle the exit XML iptc caption data with all your details so it is embedded in the data that they are your images
3. use free software like picasa to add a discreet text watermark as it does it very well and very nicely and very readable
4. your watermark should simply be your email address. if you have a uni email then use that if it helps to flag you as "one of them"
the truth is there is no money in selling to students. you'll get kore return if you barter for beers off them for photos. in my old days it was neg contact sheets and I could sell them but with digital once they are on an online gallery students will just take them - hence watermark everything with "copyright bob@myuni.com" so at least it is marked you can also add your mobile number if you want.
hope that helps - high res for beers is the best way and always get the beer off them first before giving them the image!
Not quite as 'free' as when I was at uni, but our education system is highly subsidised....Its not often you get something for free these days, but when you do you dont forget.
Actually I can't see what all the fuss is about. No-one in the uni is making anything out of this - the pictures are not generating income or are content for any commercial media organisation. No-one is going to be 'losing' anything by letting others show them. And If chris321 really wants to profit from photography while at college any prospective client will need some evidence that he can actually take pictures first. Giving some away to other university groups to use might well be the only way to start.
2blue4u
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So who holds the copyright? If you are in paid employment then I would have thought your employer does.
Surely this is the question that needs answering first. If you don't hold the copyright then further debate is a waste of electrons.
Surely this is the question that needs answering first. If you don't hold the copyright then further debate is a waste of electrons.
I would give them the photos for free and, as someone has already suggested, make sure they don't tell anyone. It's a shame they can't pay you but it's a good way to get some publicity. If people like what you do, you could end up getting some paid work out of it in the future. Good luck!
I said that over 5 hours ago...no-one paid any attention to me!
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AndyWest
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1: I would let him have the pics. If it happens again then think about charging.
2: Just for now get yourself a free easy to manage website at www.weebly.com
2: Just for now get yourself a free easy to manage website at www.weebly.com
jerry12953
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.....just make sure, in writing preferably, they can't give them or sell them to anyone else.......
LJR
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A possible solution for you would be to give a lower resolution image to them for free - something the could use in editorial usage, perhaps in their newsletter, etc but explain that you would need to charge for full resolution.
Alternatively why not allow them to use the image(s) but only under strict rules that you dictate - so for promotion of the club and match reports but not in advertising or revenue generating editorials - that kind of thing. Insist of course that you are credited wherever the photos are used.
I think compromise is perhaps the best way to go here.
Alternatively why not allow them to use the image(s) but only under strict rules that you dictate - so for promotion of the club and match reports but not in advertising or revenue generating editorials - that kind of thing. Insist of course that you are credited wherever the photos are used.
I think compromise is perhaps the best way to go here.
Tyrone Shoelaces
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Doesn't matter what conditions you stipulate, once you've given the images away they recipients will do as they please and when (if) you complain that they've sold prints to parents or whatever they will look at you like you're the one in the wrong.
You should never give work away unless there's some sort of quid pro quo.
Access to a sports event in exchange for a few team shots.
Booking in exchange for free pics of the organisers.
Free staff pics in exchange for a school booking.
I've lost count of the times random freetards have asked me for a copy of an image they have seen in just because they like it and then looked aghast when I suggested that if they like it why not buy it, like the clothes they are wearing or the house they live in.
In your case I would have suggested that these particular images were not transferable - no reason given - but if the publicity officer would like to have me come along and shoot some similar images then I'd be happy to do so and I'd use that opportunity as an inroad to take some more photos and generate some business.
But if your sales technique is as good as your business sense - giving stuff away for free in an already tough industry - then you've little chance of success anyway.
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You should never give work away unless there's some sort of quid pro quo.
Access to a sports event in exchange for a few team shots.
Booking in exchange for free pics of the organisers.
Free staff pics in exchange for a school booking.
I've lost count of the times random freetards have asked me for a copy of an image they have seen in just because they like it and then looked aghast when I suggested that if they like it why not buy it, like the clothes they are wearing or the house they live in.
In your case I would have suggested that these particular images were not transferable - no reason given - but if the publicity officer would like to have me come along and shoot some similar images then I'd be happy to do so and I'd use that opportunity as an inroad to take some more photos and generate some business.
But if your sales technique is as good as your business sense - giving stuff away for free in an already tough industry - then you've little chance of success anyway.
click this to report me
seriousrikk
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In that situation, here is what I would do (And in a similar situation have done)
Provide them with the images. For free. and farily lor resolution shots at that.
However, do it in person and give them a CD. Meet the publicity officer, and come over as a good person. Make sure they know the value of what you are giving them too, this IMO is the important bit where you can keep your beliefs about giving work away intact. Oh, and if you meet in the bar you can probably get free beer
Contacts and being known as a good bloke will get you a lot more work than the guy who would't give a penniless club a few images of their game (Rightly or wrongly). The website is important - make sure it has prices on it so anyone looking knows how much you gave away.
Provide them with the images. For free. and farily lor resolution shots at that.
However, do it in person and give them a CD. Meet the publicity officer, and come over as a good person. Make sure they know the value of what you are giving them too, this IMO is the important bit where you can keep your beliefs about giving work away intact. Oh, and if you meet in the bar you can probably get free beer
Contacts and being known as a good bloke will get you a lot more work than the guy who would't give a penniless club a few images of their game (Rightly or wrongly). The website is important - make sure it has prices on it so anyone looking knows how much you gave away.
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Hmmm I would never do that personally I am not saying its the wrong way as its worked for you in the past
But if everything is done by email you at least have somethingr ecorded.. A bloke in a bar saying he wont do this that and the other isnt going to be much use 3 mths later when no one remembers what was said... I am not saying emails will be binding law documents.. but at least you can remind them what they agreed to..
Sorry just the way i would do it... always more than one way
seriousrikk
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Hmmm I would never do that personally I am not saying its the wrong way as its worked for you in the past
I am not saying emails will be binding law documents.. but at least you can remind them what they agreed to..
Sorry just the way i would do it... always more than one way
No, you make a good point. I should have added that when I did a few pro bono bits I generally agreed terms by email anyway.
But I did always like to meet the person who was getting my work, or at the very least speak with them over the phone. I made some very sound contacts that way.