Been asked to provide photos for free, what to do?

chris321

chris321

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Chris
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Now, please read this before posting. Anyone who hasn't read this and posts lecturing me on the pros and cons of giving away work for free is going to get reported to the mods, or if this gets out of hand, I'll just get it locked.

I am not after a debate, ethical, financial, or otherwise about how people giving away photos for free is ruining the photography industry. If you have come here to say that, I already know your point of view, pretty much agree with it, and that isn't what this thread is about. I am just after advice relating to MY SPECIFIC SITUATION

Right, that out the way, onto my problem. I've taken up a job at the uni paper. This was for two reasons, to increase the variety of things I shoot, and to build up a wide range of photos from different situation, so hopefully, at some point in the future, I can make some money selling prints and digital images to people (of themselves playing sport, in theatre productions etc etc.)

The paper containing the first of my photos came out today (very excited about that :) ). I shot a hockey match, and I've now been approached by the publicity officer my university hockey team. He sent me an e-mail which said:

"Is there any chance I could get a copy of the match photos from womens 1s and mens 2s cup games. A set of thumbnails would be ideal. If its ok with you, it would be a great help."

(I've cut out the nice bits where he introduced himself as the publicity officer, and wished me all the best etc)

Sooooo, what do I do?! Let me start by saying it's a hockey club. They aren't rich (in fact their members are currently bailing them out of debt), aren't using it for commercial gain, and if I ask for payment they'll say thanks but no thanks.

So I can either supply them free of charge, which I don't really agree with, or not give them at all.

At the moment I don't have a website, but this is something I'm planning on looking into very soon. So what I was thinking was to get the site, including a web address, and put a 'coming soon' type message there. Then watermark the photos with the web address on, and mention to the publicity officer that if it's cropped off etc, I'll be sending them an invoice (tounge-in-cheek ish, but so he knows I'm serious). So they're still free, but I'm getting publicity (and this is a university, so word-of-mouth is a big thing!)

Any other options, alternatives, or advice would be really appreciated, as long as it doesn't conflict with the advice laid out in my opening paragraph! Cheers,

Chris
 
chris321 said:
Sooooo, what do I do?!
I can either supply them free of charge, which I don't really agree with, or not give them at all.

Cheers,

Chris
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there no lecture
 
Personally, I would let them have the thumbnail images on the condition that you get the credit and they don't let on that they were a freebie.
That way, you'll be the good guy that helped them out. I'm sure the publicity officer will remember that if the time comes when there is a paying job. Could also get you some word of mouth recommendations and possible sales to the individual members.

Maybe I've got too much trust in human nature, but I always think "what goes around, comes around".
 
Must be a tough one....

I think your soluation sounds the best....perhaps send them a few of the OK-ish images, keep the goodies for yourself?!....but ask them to use with you being mentioned etc...

Helps to circulate your work, and maybe it will help them out of problems!
 
In this situation i would give them to the club, i do some shots for my uni lacrosse team and give them the shots to use if they want.

gets my name about, and i wouldnt do anything with them if not.
 
I do shots for the local junior Rugby league side, I do them FOC and just get credited in the newsletter,calenders and the website.

It helps the club and helps keep the kids off the playstation and doing some exercise.That will do for me.........:thumbs:

Give them away and get the credit in this instance,Just MHO.
 
I am guessing it is not so strict but is there anything in any form of contract you have with the paper saying the photos are property of the paper, not you? Just a thought, as if so they wouldn't be yours to pass on/sell anyway.
 
You idea of the supplying them a thumbnail image would be the best way to go (given the financial circumstances of the club). Watermark them, but do it subtly. A small emblem or logo in one of the corners. Compress it so it can't be used for print or Facebook the best you can. What you will benefit more from is an active credited link-back to your site. This will have the potential of driving external links to your upcoming page. With this you can then sell prints to those who want them. Saying no won't do you any good, especially as you are just starting out. Leave the contract open for review when the club has sorted out its financial issues. This will allow you to adjust the 'contract' so you can charge for thumbnail use on their site too (around 50 quid a pop for instance).

Hope this reply is of satisfactory quality.
 
Yup. Free for a credit. Clubs are rarely able to afford commercial rates and I think doing a degree of "pro bono" work reflects well on a photographer.
 
chris321 said:
So I can either supply them free of charge, which I don't really agree with, or not give them at all.
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on all I have seen, and the fact that their isent any chance of profit from the initial images, and that they only want "thumbnails" aka tiny/non reproducible.

cut them a deal, they credit the photo with a link in exchange for free usage, subject to breaking the agreement state that they would be liable to pay for usage.

its one of those "would I gain anything otherwise" scenarios.
*would you get any sales to the participants? not likely
*would you be able to sell the photos elsewhere? not unless you've got a release from the person in it.

Best to hope for sometimes is accreditation to your name/company adding to the exposure of the company profile.
its not much but its better then nothing ;)
 
Word of mouth,goodwill. Enough said:thumbs::thumbs:
 
i agree with the general concensus above! give them the pics, make sure you get credit (either by a caption or as you suggested a watermark)
 
Wow, I was expecting to have been nailed to the stake by now! :) (maybe I'll start a thread on weddings and see if my luck holds out :lol:)

Thanks for the advice guys! Getting friendly (not in that way) with the publicity officer might be a good move... And I think I'll ask for him to keep quiet about the fact that they were free!

The club will never be able to afford to buy photos, they're skint as it is at the moment, and don't exist to make any profit, just pay all the match fees and referees. The individual players however could definitly afford a few quid for a print or a low-res image for facebook.....

There's no contract in place with the paper, the images are mine and the paper is allowed to use them, so I don't need to worry about that one.

Seriously, thanks guys, I wasn't expecting so many positive replies :)

Chris
 
Think the advice, particularly from Barry above is spot on. Cut the deal - credit and link for use of small images.

Sorry Chris, I don't really know you. Are you a student at the uni - who has taken up a job on the paper taking photo's for use on the paper? If so, are the images, "yours" to sell? Is there some kind of contract? Or are you a full time pro. Maybe a bit of background as to the relationship between you and the uni could open up some more options?

sorry chris - i was typing when you replied. If your images - then i would say give them thumbnails for a credit etc - if they are struggling a bit of free help will go a long way - what can anyone do with a thumbnail reailistically (other than make an avatar, but thats a diff story!!!) - Maybe the publicity manager could make the players aware options to buy images of indivisuals - or how about a team shoot - maybe you could say provide them with x copies of a teamshot for £x each. They could sell on for y each, thereby giving them a few quid for a new strip etc.......... and you get something out of it as well.............
 
i take pics for my housing associations tenants newsletter,i supply them without charge,on the understanding they remain my copyright & get credited for taking them.
 
Lynton said:
Think the advice, particularly from Barry above is spot on. Cut the deal - credit and link for use of small images.

Sorry Chris, I don't really know you. Are you a student at the uni - who has taken up a job on the paper taking photo's for use on the paper? If so, are the images, "yours" to sell? Is there some kind of contract? Or are you a full time pro. Maybe a bit of background as to the relationship between you and the uni could open up some more options?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I probably should have made that a bit clearer!

I'm a student at the uni (hence trying to find any way to make a few extra pounds :D). No contract, the images are mine to do what I want with. The paper is free for all students, so no-one is paid (photographers, writers, even the head honcho super-editor) and the costs of the paper are just about covered by the ads from businesses and recruiters in it.

Definitely not a full time pro :D

Chris
 
Credit for the pics and an invite to the end of season party :)

Spent a few years playing league hockey and the parties...............well the photos of those had to be destroyed! lol

My other half suggested a calander too :naughty:
 
chris321 said:
Wow, I was expecting to have been nailed to the stake by now! :) (maybe I'll start a thread on weddings and see if my luck holds out :lol:)
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:lol: I'm glad you've got some good replies, we're going to have to use your warning at the top of all threads.

I think the best solution is probably in the suggestions already. They asked for a set of thumbnails, maybe it's best to check exactly what they want them for so you can come up with the best plan (re low resolution vs watermark etc). You could gain publicity and might make some low profit sales to the players. I would give them your best work though, don't hold it back.
 
Maybe someone in the club can help with setting up your own website, or knows someone who can? Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.
 
do it for free, the whole student economy runs on beer (or at least down here).

I shoot for the paper and will do virtually everything I'm asked tbh. Earns you favours and a name for when you want people for personal projects (which I don't have enough time to do :bang:)
 
RE Facebook. Ask the publicity officer to ask the players not to lift them once they are published.
 
chris321 said:
Wow, I was expecting to have been nailed to the stake by now! :) (maybe I'll start a thread on weddings and see if my luck holds out :lol:)




Chris
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Don`t push your luck Chris....:lol:

Seriously, just get the credits mate,the goodwill follows. I picked up a wedding and a christening from doing the RL shots for free...........:thumbs:
 
I like the idea of helping people out as everyone above has said get credited for the images with a possible link to a website where you sell images for beer money.

OK so you have sorted that side of things lets lower the tone and ask if any of the female team are good looking? you never know they may be budding models and want a studio shoot doing.
 
Trying to charge a university hockey club for photos would be as heartless as it was hopeless.
 
calendar is a great idea, why don't you suggest it to the guy? could be a nice little earner for you..

Capitalise on the fact he likes your pictures
 
I would give them for free on the basis they include a watermark on the images and maybe even a 'All photographs by X', you could even throw in an e-mail address or website. I think some good publicity around campus would help you out and earn some good rep.
 
Yep I'd do it for the goodwill etc. If they can't pay for images then you've lost nothing, but gained a contact and poss future work....
 
your payment in this instance is a credit and maybe a lead to other things

have they any other worth than this?
 
I do not really see the difficulty.

" you are taking the shots for the news paper and for experience. Like other officers of the paper you are working free."



The question is how do you generate an income from this?

Every time they publish any of your pictures it is being seen by virtually the whole university. If your pictures are any good people will want copies.
You must get yourself a website and have them included it with your photo credit ( or as your photo credit.) don't put up, or sell usable sized electronic copies. You must only sell prints.

If teams want to use pictures for their own publicity, let them have links they can use on their own sites , provide they also credit you ( your web site.) If they want prints, sell them.


Set your print prices at a reasonable level and you should create a useful income and become well known in the process.
 
To be honest with you, you are already doing work for free, so supplying the photographs is surely no different.

We're not talking about a commercial organisation taking advantage of you. You're working as part of a voluntary team (I assume - apologies if I'm wrong) and this is largely out of community spirit, and good on you.

The photographs are no different, just be sure you get credited. Anyway, your best work is no good to you unless people get to see it. Get them seen and hopefully people will want to buy copies.
 
Just give the pictures to them for free, a little goes a long way these days, and anyway you’ve already taken them so no big deal, just watermark them and see what comes of it.
Its not often you get something for free these days, but when you do you don’t forget. :thumbs:
 
Looks like you've already got your answer Chris, but for me it's a no-brainer.
You've already got the photos and it's not going to cost you anything to distribute them.

Your choices are either :

- Do nothing with them. There's no way that the hockey club is going to be able to afford to pay and to me that seems a complete waste.

- Let the hockey club use them free of charge, but get some exposure from it by watermarking with your upcoming website address


And who knows where else that will lead?

You could price up getting some higher res prints for the players to buy and ask the club if you can distribute some flyers advertising prints.
Maybe even price up getting some printed on team mugs / T-Shirts that sort of thing to sell at a small profit :shrug:
The club might even be willing to make a deal to share the cost of getting a load printed for a share in the profits.
 
Awesome, thanks for all the advice on this!

To be honest, I was pretty sure I was going to give them the photos (just didn't want to say that initially in case people weren't going to read the disclaimer at the beginning :D). But you've all given me plenty of advice how I can give the photos to the club, get on first name terms with the publicity officer, possibly make a little beer money, and not shoot myself in the foot in the long term.

I was a little worried before posting this, but you guys have been amazing :thumbs:! Thanks so much,

Chris
 
In this situation, I would ask them to provide me with a client reference saying that you are a pleasure to work with, the photos were nice etc etc. Watermarking might be a good idea, but I'm not a huge fan of it.
 
joecobbs said:
I wouldn't worry too much about watermarking, payment schemes, client references, no facebook stipulations etc. From what I've gathered thats all a little drastic in this situation.
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Really there should be some benefit for both parties in this matter, disregarding any form of trade and just handing over the photos is a little drastic in my opinion.
 
As you were there shooting for your uni paper, as long as your not obligated to give the images just to them (might be worth a check), let them have a copy for free for credit
 
In these circumstances, handing the photos to them seems the right way to go. Insist on the byline/credit as this will look good for you resumé.

Could you not get a clause written in where you have full access the after game shower areas? :naughty:
 
jmann said:
Must be a tough one....

I think your soluation sounds the best....perhaps send them a few of the OK-ish images, keep the goodies for yourself?!....but ask them to use with you being mentioned etc...

Helps to circulate your work, and maybe it will help them out of problems!
Click to expand...

Yeah, but why would you give anyone ok-ish images if you have fantastic ones? Free or not, if the images and his name circulates then surely you want people to think your a fantastic photographer and not just an OK one?

Lee
www.sophotogenic.co.uk
 
If you don't agree with giving your images away for free then don't do it.


chris321 said:
Sorry, I probably should have made that a bit clearer!

I'm a student at the uni (hence trying to find any way to make a few extra pounds :D). No contract, the images are mine to do what I want with. The paper is free for all students, so no-one is paid (photographers, writers, even the head honcho super-editor) and the costs of the paper are just about covered by the ads from businesses and recruiters in it.

Definitely not a full time pro :D

Chris
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