Becoming a Sports Photographer

[Taff]

I know it's hard to get into but I was wondering how I would go about starting it. (I have read some of the other threads but want to try and get answers personally)

I have only had the chance to shoot 2 Rugby League matches so far and will be looking at getting to a lot more matches when the season starts at the Club I used to play for, I will also try and get to some local football matches and gain some experience in shooting other types of sports.

Any help or advice anyone could provide would be much appreciated.

 

[KIPAX]

I have only had the chance to shoot 2 Rugby League matches so far and will be looking at getting to a lot more matches when the season starts at the Club I used to play for, I will also try and get to some local football matches and gain some experience in shooting other types of sports.

.

You hav eanswered the question yourself.. get more experience wiht lots of different sports.. grass roots sports is all over the place and welcome photogrpahers wiht open arms.. build up a portfolio...

 

[Joeturner11]

You hav eanswered the question yourself.. get more experience wiht lots of different sports.. grass roots sports is all over the place and welcome photogrpahers wiht open arms.. build up a portfolio...

+1 Start getting around your local clubs and contact the papers and see if you can get anything published from them and take it from there

 

[Taff]

You hav eanswered the question yourself.. get more experience wiht lots of different sports.. grass roots sports is all over the place and welcome photogrpahers wiht open arms.. build up a portfolio...

+1 Start getting around your local clubs and contact the papers and see if you can get anything published from them and take it from there

Thanks both. I kinda knew I would need to get out and start getting more experience but it was more where do I go from there ie do I just send out an email to different non league clubs asking if they have any photographer positions available or how do you bridge the getting paid side lol.

 

[Joeturner11]

Thanks both. I kinda knew I would need to get out and start getting more experience but it was more where do I go from there ie do I just send out an email to different non league clubs asking if they have any photographer positions available or how do you bridge the getting paid side lol.

Firstly don't worry about the getting paid side of things at this point, get out there and shoot the local teams and get some stuff published and then try and work your way into the papers or media companies etc. but first you have to get a good portfolio together

 

[Taff]

Firstly don't worry about the getting paid side of things at this point, get out there and shoot the local teams and get some stuff published and then try and work your way into the papers or media companies etc. but first you have to get a good portfolio together

Thanks again Joe.

 

[purpleclouds]

Firstly don't worry about the getting paid side of things at this point, get out there and shoot the local teams and get some stuff published and then try and work your way into the papers or media companies etc. but first you have to get a good portfolio together

If you're getting published then you should be being paid. No point in putting in the hard work if you're not going to learn how to reap the rewards of it. That said, there's nothing wrong helping out a local non-profit team. As soon as someone starts to profit from your work however (newspaper, magazine, website etc) then you should expect return too.

 

[Joeturner11]

If you're getting published then you should be being paid.

I would recommend to Darren to get in contact with the local newspapers and get some images shots published first, face it Grass root or low level footy the local papers won't pay for a normal match only a cup match maybe or a charity event at the club etc.

 

[blue marlin]

Got to agree no fee no pictures.

 

[MWHCVT]

If you're getting published then you should be being paid. No point in putting in the hard work if you're not going to learn how to reap the rewards of it. That said, there's nothing wrong helping out a local non-profit team. As soon as someone starts to profit from your work however (newspaper, magazine, website etc) then you should expect return too.

to this, I can see no reason at all why anyone would promote giving away photos, doing that's going to kill the very industry your trying to get into :bang:

 

[purpleclouds]

I would recommend to Darren to get in contact with the local newspapers and get some images shots published first, face it Grass root or low level footy the local papers won't pay for a normal match only a cup match maybe or a charity event at the club etc.

..and where are you at in this industry to recommend that? The very reason newspapers won't pay is because folk do send them in for free. Can you not see that? Why shoot yourself in the foot?

 

[Plumtreelad]

I have faced this dilemma when starting out in sports photography. Some of the excellent pro photographers I met told me never to give images to the media without payment. Fine, I understand the rationale. However, when you approach local newspapers nowadays they will tell you that they have no money to pay for your images. Then the guilt sets in. You say to yourself "Are they telling the truth". "Is it just a ruse to get me to give them some free images" "What will the pros think" In the end I decided that I would get a few free pics into the newspapers, with a credit, in order to build my portfolio and to give me some confidence. I do not regret taking this course of action. I do not think that I have put any pro photos out of business by doing this and I actually think that more and more newspapers are "relying" on free images especially to cover the local amateur sports scene. So, be brave, send some pics to the paper and get an inner glow when you see your name alongside your first published images. Of course, do not sustain the free image practice into perpetuity - otherwise you will never be able to extract the pennies from the media outlets. Good luck!

 

[purpleclouds]

I have faced this dilemma when starting out in sports photography. Some of the excellent pro photographers I met told me never to give images to the media without payment. Fine, I understand the rationale. However, when you approach local newspapers nowadays they will tell you that they have no money to pay for your images. Then the guilt sets in. You say to yourself "Are they telling the truth". "Is it just a ruse to get me to give them some free images" "What will the pros think" In the end I decided that I would get a few free pics into the newspapers, with a credit, in order to build my portfolio and to give me some confidence. I do not regret taking this course of action. I do not think that I have put any pro photos out of business by doing this and I actually think that more and more newspapers are "relying" on free images especially to cover the local amateur sports scene. So, be brave, send some pics to the paper and get an inner glow when you see your name alongside your first published images. Of course, do not sustain the free image practice into perpetuity - otherwise you will never be able to extract the pennies from the media outlets. Good luck!

Oh dear. Having your picture published is no measure of quality. "S*** but free," springs to mind.

 

[MWHCVT]

I have faced this dilemma when starting out in sports photography. Some of the excellent pro photographers I met told me never to give images to the media without payment. Fine, I understand the rationale. However, when you approach local newspapers nowadays they will tell you that they have no money to pay for your images. Then the guilt sets in. You say to yourself "Are they telling the truth". "Is it just a ruse to get me to give them some free images" "What will the pros think" In the end I decided that I would get a few free pics into the newspapers, with a credit, in order to build my portfolio and to give me some confidence. I do not regret taking this course of action. I do not think that I have put any pro photos out of business by doing this and I actually think that more and more newspapers are "relying" on free images especially to cover the local amateur sports scene. So, be brave, send some pics to the paper and get an inner glow when you see your name alongside your first published images. Of course, do not sustain the free image practice into perpetuity - otherwise you will never be able to extract the pennies from the media outlets. Good luck!

It's pure BS that they don't have money, and I'll tell you why, every year we put a memorial in the local paper for my mum and each year for something that takes up 3in x 1.25in cost nearly £110, when my dad owned his own cleaning company a 1.25in x 1.25in square job advert was anything from £50-£250 per publication depending on day of publication so please don't ever believe the no budget balls

 

[KIPAX]

face it Grass root or low level footy the local papers won't pay for a normal match only a cup match maybe or a charity event at the club etc.

I work for 2 local papers that pay me for grass roots and non league..

I got my league licence by getting various papers aorund the country to pay for non league football pictures... couldnt have done it any other way

Its a myth that papers dont pay.. some wont.. a lot try to pull the wool over your eyes though.. but its certainly not a blanket wont pay...

 

[Swanseajack]

It's pure BS that they don't have money, and I'll tell you why, every year we put a memorial in the local paper for my mum and each year for something that takes up 3in x 1.25in cost nearly £110, when my dad owned his own cleaning company a 1.25in x 1.25in square job advert was anything from £50-£250 per publication depending on day of publication so please don't ever believe the no budget balls

Got to agree with that. When mam passed away it was £150.00 to put the announcement in our local paper for one day. Multiply that by about 50 and it equals £7500.00 per day in one section without all the other advertisers. Papers are not paupers and local ones are usually owned by the Multinationals. It's the case with my local paper, who I think are owned by the Mirror Group.

 

[Plumtreelad]

I work for 2 local papers that pay me for grass roots and non league..

I got my league licence by getting various papers aorund the country to pay for non league football pictures... couldnt have done it any other way

Its a myth that papers dont pay.. some wont.. a lot try to pull the wool over your eyes though.. but its certainly not a blanket wont pay...

I am sure that you are right in what you say. Some will pay and the OP would therefore have no qualms about putting images to them for publication. But he will come across some who say they cannot pay. Now, whether this is the truth or not, the issue he will face is should he give them an image or two to get him started or should he try to find another newspaper. When covering local amateur sport, there may be only one newspaper in the region that would be appropriate for him to submit images to and if they say they cannot pay does he simply sit on his hands and get nothing published or does he go ahead? That is the dilemma he will face. I fully respect Kippax and Matthew's position and reading of the situation but not sure it will always be sensible to hold out for payment if there is none forthcoming.

 

[Plumtreelad]

Got to agree with that. When mam passed away it was £150.00 to put the announcement in our local paper for one day. Multiply that by about 50 and it equals £7500.00 per day in one section without all the other advertisers. Papers are not paupers and local ones are usually owned by the Multinationals. It's the case with my local paper, who I think are owned by the Mirror Group.

Again, I agree entirely with your position. However many local newspapers are generating far less income than was the case 10 years ago due to the loss of revenue from advertising. It was not that long ago that if you wanted to buy a house you looked in the local newspaper for all the estate agents adverts. Now there are almost no house adverts in papers: they are on Rightmove and similar sites. If you wanted to buy a second hand bike you looked in the newspaper - now its Ebay or Gumtree.
Gosh, I sound like I am an advocate for the newspapers - be assured that is not my aim! My purpose is to help the OP understand that getting money out of newspapers is not as easy as some would make it out to be and that he should not get despondent about it.

 

[KIPAX]

I am sure that you are right in what you say. Some will pay and the OP would therefore have no qualms about putting images to them for publication. But he will come across some who say they cannot pay. Now, whether this is the truth or not, the issue he will face is should he give them an image or two to get him started or should he try to find another newspaper. When covering local amateur sport, there may be only one newspaper in the region that would be appropriate for him to submit images to and if they say they cannot pay does he simply sit on his hands and get nothing published or does he go ahead? That is the dilemma he will face. I fully respect Kippax and Matthew's position and reading of the situation but not sure it will always be sensible to hold out for payment if there is none forthcoming.

There is no dilemma.. no pay. no picture..

Everyone gets paid.. the newspaper building owners .. the company directors... the editors..printers, reporters...... everyone right through the system down to the 14 yr old kid delivering the paper.. ..they all get paid...

Heres an important point...... Nobody looks at bylines accept photogrpahers... people dont search the papers for good pictures and someones name under it.. then google looking for contact details so they can hire them... Apart from the pleasure of seeing your name in print for the first time.. theres no other good reason...

I am a strong advocate that nobody should be able to tell anyone what they can or cant do wiht there pictures.... but we can advise and try to educate.. for the record I made mistakes in this area when i started.. nobody explained anyhting to me so I had to learn the hard way.. now I have.. I like to pass it on.. just the same way i pass on any camera advice ...

 

[Taff]

Thanks for the advise all.

If you're getting published then you should be being paid. No point in putting in the hard work if you're not going to learn how to reap the rewards of it. That said, there's nothing wrong helping out a local non-profit team. As soon as someone starts to profit from your work however (newspaper, magazine, website etc) then you should expect return too.

to this, I can see no reason at all why anyone would promote giving away photos, doing that's going to kill the very industry your trying to get into :banghead:

I work for 2 local papers that pay me for grass roots and non league..

I got my league licence by getting various papers aorund the country to pay for non league football pictures... couldnt have done it any other way

Its a myth that papers dont pay.. some wont.. a lot try to pull the wool over your eyes though.. but its certainly not a blanket wont pay...

Regarding the fee for local press to publish what would I be looking at? (for future reference once I have built up a portfolio that is)

 

[purpleclouds]

I am sure that you are right in what you say. Some will pay and the OP would therefore have no qualms about putting images to them for publication. But he will come across some who say they cannot pay. Now, whether this is the truth or not, the issue he will face is should he give them an image or two to get him started or should he try to find another newspaper. When covering local amateur sport, there may be only one newspaper in the region that would be appropriate for him to submit images to and if they say they cannot pay does he simply sit on his hands and get nothing published or does he go ahead? That is the dilemma he will face. I fully respect Kippax and Matthew's position and reading of the situation but not sure it will always be sensible to hold out for payment if there is none forthcoming.

Having pictures published will do nothing for him in the long run, so where you get this "getting started" from, I have no idea. If he wants to get his own football league license then DataCo will want to see they have been paid for, and if it's just to make him feel more confident then that too is wrong. We all know papers will print any old tosh, especially if it's free.

You say the OP shouldn't get despondent about not getting money from newspapers. I'd me more despondent if they took my hard work and used it without reward, knowing full well that the editor, printer, tea lady were all going to their purchased home, in their purchased cars.. whilst I walked back from the game to my mum's spare room.

 

[Plumtreelad]

OK, having been put in my place by several of you, and with no one seemingly taking my position on this issue , I will shut up!

 

[Swanseajack]

Again, I agree entirely with your position. However many local newspapers are generating far less income than was the case 10 years ago due to the loss of revenue from advertising. It was not that long ago that if you wanted to buy a house you looked in the local newspaper for all the estate agents adverts. Now there are almost no house adverts in papers: they are on Rightmove and similar sites. If you wanted to buy a second hand bike you looked in the newspaper - now its Ebay or Gumtree.
Gosh, I sound like I am an advocate for the newspapers - be assured that is not my aim! My purpose is to help the OP understand that getting money out of newspapers is not as easy as some would make it out to be and that he should not get despondent about it.

With my local paper they have gone from printing in Swansea and now it's done in Bristol. When in Swansea we had a later edition of the days local news, not so now it's printed the next day and is still called the Evening Post, when it's out at 7.00am the next morning. I stopped purchasing then.

Advertising may have decreased with some, but they are still much the same for catering for some of the older folk who aren't into technology. When I was Self employed, it used to cost me about £70.00 for a small lined advert for the weekend. Plus when you sold a car it was £50.00 for three nights for a lined advert. I haven't advertised myself for about 5 years as I have stopped working due to ill health. Based on what I have said I think the revenue they have recieved is far greater than there outgong costs. In the case of my local paper they haven't helped themselves with the greed they showed in the past.

It maybe is harder getting money out of them, whats a couple of pics worth £40.00?? I have no idea. But in my opinion it's not all breadline for the papers.

See below for car sales, in a local search it has shown up 4098 vehicles, what are they making on these??

http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/motors#search-results

 

[KIPAX]

Regarding the fee for local press to publish what would I be looking at? (for future reference once I have built up a portfolio that is)

theres two types of payment and three types of paper and different prices for diff regions..

type of paper
Theres local paper which is specific to maybe one town and surrounding area
Then regional paper.. still considered local but covers a larger area..
National covers ..eeerm national

payment local/regional
commision.. where the paper asks you to do a job.. you can get paid per job. half or full day... for a local or regional this can be 35,50 and 100 at the lower end..
onspec.. might be as little as a tenner a pic or 40+ ?

dont write all the above in stone.. its a rough guide.. diff people in diff parts of country for diff companies will ahve diff stories

 

[DemiLion]

I do not think that I have put any pro photos out of business by doing this and I actually think that more and more newspapers are "relying" on free images especially to cover the local amateur sports scene.

I'm amazed that you can't see the irony in those two statements when read back to back!

The willingness of people to provide images (and not even particularly good ones) for vanity publishing, has directly resulted in staff lay offs and cutting freelance budgets.

 

[Gary Coyle]

OK, having been put in my place by several of you, and with no one seemingly taking my position on this issue , I will shut up!

Best thing youve said in this thread

 

[Tobers]

Here's a slightly different take. Aside from a few like Kipax, most people shooting Football League or Premiership are working for an agency. Therefore to get into an agency should be your aim. A smaller agency will not be so interested in whether you have been published in the Sprokethorpe and Welesdale Weekly Advertiser and got £10 for the picture. They will be interested in your ability to capture key moments of a game in focus and properly exposed, get the atmosphere of a match and the context, and have clear shots of important people eg players, management, owners etc.

They will also want you to be able to edit and transmit pictures in near real time so you need to show technical ability too.

So my advice is to focus on building a portfolio of excellent images of various sports, which you can without needing to go to Old Trafford, and then start contacting smaller agencies and see if you can get a try out with them.

 

[KIPAX]

which brings us right back to the first answer in this thread.. grass roots sport and build a portfolio.. thats what people want to see..

In all honesty I have never seen or heard of anyone asking what a photogrpaher has had published in order to guage there ability.. a good portfolio beats everyhting.. including college degrees and the like

 

[Joeturner11]

..and where are you at in this industry to recommend that?

Work for a vary of Media company's, and often supply images to the Daily Mail, Mirror, Daily Star, Sunday People etc. I know what your thinking just because it says I'am a Junior Member you think I know s*** all about everything

The very reason newspapers won't pay is because folk do send them in for free. Can you not see that?

In my area it is rural compared to Manchester so there is only one local paper and they don't pay for anything grass root level, there simply not interested. The issue is around here one or two toggers just send them stuff for free of the only local conference side, its s*** they publish but with only one paper round here they only focus on the conference team, and anything else there only use if they get sent it, apart from that there not interested.

 

[admirable]

Work for a vary of Media company's, and often supply images to the Daily Mail, Mirror, Daily Star, Sunday People etc. I know what your thinking just because it says I'am a Junior Member you think I know s*** all about everything

Love it, where's the like button?

 

[Taff]

Again thanks for all the advice. My aim now is to get out and shoot as often as I can to build up my portfolio and go from there.

 

[DemiLion]

In my area it is rural compared to Manchester so there is only one local paper and they don't pay for anything grass root level, there simply not interested. The issue is around here one or two toggers just send them stuff for free of the only local conference side, its s*** they publish but with only one paper round here they only focus on the conference team, and anything else there only use if they get sent it, apart from that there not interested.

So now you are encouraging other people to follow suit and yet you want to be a working photographer when you grow up?

Does not compute!

 

[Joeturner11]

So now you are encouraging other people to follow suit and yet you want to be a working photographer when you grow up?

Does not compute!

The OP was looking for a suggestions on how to gain Experience and I suggested ways he could get his name out there

 

[DemiLion]

The OP was looking for a suggestions on how to gain Experience and I suggested ways he could get his name out there

I think you need to reread the question. He was asking for ways to become a sports photographer.

The whole 'getting your name out there' BS is utter American claptrap designed for 'momtogs'.

As has been repeatedly mentioned in this thread, vanity publishing is completely pointless. Someone should always be paying for publication, whether that be the newspaper, the club that you shoot for, a sponsor or other interested party or, for that matter, as a trade. Perpetuating the myth that good photography can be had for free only damages everyone in the industry, including the publishers.

You're going to need to learn that pretty quickly!

 

[Bluesman graham]

I can't add anything verbly not already said from Mark & Phil etc so my "likes" are as much as I can add to the support!

Other than Joe!, move from the Juniors to the seniors in your attitude to photographers passing on years of expereance in the buisness, (google the names if your in doubt!). Kind regards Graham.

oh by the way I've been at it 30 years before you call me!!

 

[Gary Coyle]

Joe, myself and Bluesman Graham were only saying the other day about one guy we know who gets paid much less than the going rate than the rest of the guys simply because he accepts that, because he used to give his stuff away that's exactly what some people think hes worth

Dont give it away EVER, a mate of mine says, ask the papers for free advertising space and see what they say.

 

[purpleclouds]

Work for a vary of Media company's, and often supply images to the Daily Mail, Mirror, Daily Star, Sunday People etc. I know what your thinking just because it says I'am a Junior Member you think I know s*** all about everything



In my area it is rural compared to Manchester so there is only one local paper and they don't pay for anything grass root level, there simply not interested. The issue is around here one or two toggers just send them stuff for free of the only local conference side, its s*** they publish but with only one paper round here they only focus on the conference team, and anything else there only use if they get sent it, apart from that there not interested.

Cute By 'supplying' I'm guessing they're not 'used'.

I live in rural Cumbria, and my local paper pays for pictures (not that I've worked for them).

 

[Joeturner11]

Cute By 'supplying' I'm guessing they're not 'used'.

They are used on a regular basis actually, anyway I got better things to do than have a b****ing session with you, I'am out of here

 

[Bluesman graham]

Joe Turner!!, a name I now need to both ignore/avoid pitch side due to the arrogance me thinks?
Hope you're clued up on all things photography wise, (given your vast years of experence of course), cos I think you'll now be getting [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] all help from anyone on here in the future fella!!. (n).

by the way do you know you cannot show Football images on a personal website unless you are the DATACO licence holder?. Ie Andy(Media Images) holds all rights to the pics & as such you cannot use them in promotion of your own website!!
see what a can of worms unfolds?.

I know "these" are conference images but I still think you are being unproffessional to Media Images seeing as they give you the "window" in!! + the Manchester Under 21's come under the Dataco Banner!

 

[Joeturner11]

Joe Turner!!, a name I now need to both ignore/avoid pitch side due to the arrogance me thinks?

Sorry to hear that if its comes across as I'am being arrogant, its just some members on this forum drive me up the twist...I think for the best after my transaction goes though on the classifieds I will leave the forum, think its for the best for all of us and I'am sure a lot of people on this forum will be glad of it & they lets me use the images on my website that I show, sorry also to anyone I drove up the wall!