Becoming a professional photographer is a terrible idea.

EMA747 said:
All of the posts here are about giving up good jobs to follow the photography path. What about if you started over again and had these thoughts when you were in your 20s say?

I am 27, have a boring (I mean REALLY boring) job that is often 13 hours a day. Sometime a lot of work other times I can be lucky to pull in £100 a month (yeah I am serious!). As a result I am still having to live with parents. Give that kind of a situation surely the choice is easier to follow a love for photography. I mean it's not like there is much to lose financially.
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As you say,you got nutin to lose,go for it,better to get low paid for somthing you love,than somthing you hate :)
 
I think to some extent people earn what they they believe they can earn. I have friends who earn a little more than half of what i do because they stayed in one spot doing the same thing because they thought they were on awesome money. I was unhappy with what i was earning and kept moving and evolving which resulted in more pay. Yes, there is an element of right time right place involved but I believe I increased my odds by struggling and changing so I was more likely to be in the right place at the right time.

When I read about the the number of jobs some of the studio owners, events photographers, and wedding photographers on here do each year it is obvious they are not low paid. With an effective sales and marketing strategy I believe photographers can be well paid. It all comes down to how you differentiate yourself from the competition IMHO. Maybe I am just naive but I do not think an attitude of I'm doing something I love and therefore I will be low paid is healthy when it does not need to be that way IMHO.

By the way I think only working a few days so you have more time with your family is EXTREMELY healthy :) I see that as a form of pay in itself. All of the above is just my personal possibly twisted and completely incorrect view on life :)

Dub
 
dubcat said:
I think to some extent people earn what they they believe they can earn. I have friends who earn a little more than half of what i do because they stayed in one spot doing the same thing because they thought they were on awesome money. I was unhappy with what i was earning and kept moving and evolving which resulted in more pay. Yes, there is an element of right time right place involved but I believe I increased my odds by struggling and changing so I was more likely to be in the right place at the right time.

When I read about the the number of jobs some of the studio owners, events photographers, and wedding photographers on here do each year it is obvious they are not low paid. With an effective sales and marketing strategy I believe photographers can be well paid. It all comes down to how you differentiate yourself from the competition IMHO. Maybe I am just naive but I do not think an attitude of I'm doing something I love and therefore I will be low paid is healthy when it does not need to be that way IMHO.

By the way I think only working a few days so you have more time with your family is EXTREMELY healthy :) I see that as a form of pay in itself. All of the above is just my personal possibly twisted and completely incorrect view on life :)

Dub
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I agree that you make your own luck to some extent. But the wedding and studio photographers who are well paid have put in a lot of hours. Not just wedding photographers, but all photographers usually put a lot of time and effort in to become successful and you have to be prepared to put the money you make back into your business for a while or it probably won't happen. When you work for yourself you have to take care of everything and a day off is a day you're not going to be paid for. I don't think people are saying they do what they love and don't expect to be paid well, but working for yourself isn't the same as working for a big company.
 
EMA747 said:
All of the posts here are about giving up good jobs to follow the photography path. What about if you started over again and had these thoughts when you were in your 20s say?

I am 27, have a boring (I mean REALLY boring) job that is often 13 hours a day. Sometime a lot of work other times I can be lucky to pull in £100 a month (yeah I am serious!). As a result I am still having to live with parents. Give that kind of a situation surely the choice is easier to follow a love for photography. I mean it's not like there is much to lose financially.
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I think it's time to face facts - some people weren't cut out to be gigolo's :D
 
Lots to think about in this thread and some great posts.

I'm in a situation where redundancy is a very likely prospect for me from a job i've done for 17 years since I left college and loved almost every minute of it.
I've racked my brains for months and the only thing I can see me Enjoying is photography.
I guess I'm the same as many people in this thread. As long as I can put food on the table, a roof over my head and a little bit aside for a rainy day, then enjoyment of my job is more important to me than money.

So it's typing with crossed fingers here :)
 
EMA747 said:
All of the posts here are about giving up good jobs to follow the photography path. What about if you started over again and had these thoughts when you were in your 20s say?

I am 27, have a boring (I mean REALLY boring) job that is often 13 hours a day. Sometime a lot of work other times I can be lucky to pull in £100 a month (yeah I am serious!). As a result I am still having to live with parents. Give that kind of a situation surely the choice is easier to follow a love for photography. I mean it's not like there is much to lose financially.
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if you're working so little that you only pull in £100 a month, you've got shed loads of time to go out and take photos! You don't need to suddenly ditch it and 'go pro', especially if your job is flexible - go out and take photos, NOW! and keep doing it and doing it. And if that's all you're earning, quit fetishising that you need a 1D4 to be a professional! :)
 
itsdavedotnet said:
if you're working so little that you only pull in £100 a month, you've got shed loads of time to go out and take photos! You don't need to suddenly ditch it and 'go pro', especially if your job is flexible - go out and take photos, NOW! and keep doing it and doing it. And if that's all you're earning, quit fetishising that you need a 1D4 to be a professional! :)
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You are totally right. It's hard to go back having owned one though. ;) One plus to my current situation is that I have lots of time to work on other things like photography.


I would be interested to know out of the earning an ok wage from photography what percentage are wedding and portrait photographers. It seem a lot on here are and I was looking in all the "going pro" mags in Smiths yesterday and I would say 3/4 of the articles were about and aimed at wedding togs. Maybe for those of us not wanting to go down that road it's one more thing that makes earning a living harder as that seems where a lot of the money is. [No offence or disrespect to wedding togs is mean by the above :thumbs:]
 
EMA747 said:
You are totally right. It's hard to go back having owned one though. ;) One plus to my current situation is that I have lots of time to work on other things like photography.


I would be interested to know out of the earning an ok wage from photography what percentage are wedding and portrait photographers. It seem a lot on here are and I was looking in all the "going pro" mags in Smiths yesterday and I would say 3/4 of the articles were about and aimed at wedding togs. Maybe for those of us not wanting to go down that road it's one more thing that makes earning a living harder as that seems where a lot of the money is. [No offence or disrespect to wedding togs is mean by the above :thumbs:]
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the mass market of people 'going pro' seems to be weddings or portraits. I started a thread about it in talk business a couple weeks ago, some interesting replies - some people solely business focussed, some genuinely love weddings, and a lot of discussion about how it's the only types of photographer that joe public comes into contact with - commercial photographers clearly don't exist ;) Not that I'm complaining, last thing I'd want is even more ****less undercharging snappers to 'compete' with...

I would personally avoid 'going pro' magazine like the plague if you want to be working commercially, it sells dreams which we all see loads of people at the moment ditching their redundancy package on a set of gear and 'going pro' but with little to no thought of business or marketing. One guy who posted on here (not wanting to pick here, merely using an example) was 'in business' for 6 months and had NO clients! Yet he didn't even consider the places that his (fairly easy to target) market regularly congregated. He didn't have a business, he just had a stack of business cards and headed paper. Read instead stuff like aphotoeditor, AOP etc.
 
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Yeah I agree about the mags selling dreams (that's a good phrase for it I reckon). Don't worry I was merely browsing, £4.99 is a lot of money considering you get that advice and better for free here. :D

It's surprising how little a lot of people know about commercial photography. I mean you only need to wander down any highstreet and count the number of adverts in shop windows. All photographs by someone, same for magazines.
 
ausemmao said:
I will probably progress into having photography as a "serious hobby", but no further. As much as I enjoy it, I need to be able to engage on my terms, and going pro would necessarily compromise that and make me enjoy it less.
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I agree with this. I enjoy the photography I do, I feel no need to sully that by getting clients involved! :)
 
Becoming a professional photographer is a terrible idea

I'd agree, but I wouldn't mind (if I had the talent) as long as I didn't have to interact with the customer. Ha ha :)
 
Born in England in the early 70s, I am self taught and began shooting professionally just over 3 years ago. I split my time between Europe, Asia and the States.
Clients include: Vaseline, Martell, Segafredo, Travel+leisure SEA, DT menswear, Readers Digest, TBWA, BBH
My portrait work is also featured in a number of print and online publications worldwide.
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http://tomhoops.com/blog/about/

Inspiring.
 
KIPAX said:
Is it really all about money? I make enough to live on and I get asked a lot how much.. people think your coining it in being a photographer.. I work longer hours than a checkout girl at a supermarket.. I work long weekends, I dont get sick pay or holiday pay and I spend a lot of time looking for work and hoping I can make ends meet. The checkout girl will work less hours and earn more money than me.

But I love every minute of my long hard week of work.. I wonder if the checkout girl can say she is living her dream?

If its about how much money then yes it's probably a terrible idea... But is it really just about money?
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Bills, Bills, Bills, they all want paying and they dont give a flying f*** if you earning low amounts because you love photography.
Thats how I see it!

Thats why I have other areas of income mainly,,, a guarantee of paying the bills and at least allows me to have some enjoyment/say over me and my photography rather then the creditors and clients.
 
BarryDawsib said:
Bills, Bills, Bills, they all want paying and they dont give a flying f*** if you earning low amounts because you love photography.
Thats how I see it!

Thats why I have other areas of income mainly,,, a guarantee of paying the bills and at least allows me to have some enjoyment/say over me and my photography rather then the creditors and clients.
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Well said
 
BarryDawsib said:
Bills, Bills, Bills, they all want paying and they dont give a flying f*** if you earning low amounts because you love photography.
Thats how I see it!

Thats why I have other areas of income mainly,,, a guarantee of paying the bills and at least allows me to have some enjoyment/say over me and my photography rather then the creditors and clients.
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eeerm I pay my bills.. what on earth makes you think I don't?

I really must be missing your point somwhere..
 
KIPAX said:
Surely its only a good point if a self employed photogrpaher cant pay his bills?

yep I really must be missing somehting here? :)
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No, I suspect you aren't, but others can't imagine not having.a salary.

Being a self-employed photographer would hold no fear for me if I could take a decent photo... I take enough pride in my work that being able to 'sell an idea or dream' isn't enough.
 
mrthingyx said:
No, I suspect you aren't, but others can't imagine not having.a salary.

Being a self-employed photographer would hold no fear for me if I could take a decent photo... I take enough pride in my work that being able to 'sell an idea or dream' isn't enough.
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Again. Well said
 
lensflair said:
+1
I gave up a career in research science to pursue photography as a career instead. I went to uni, did an honours degree and a PhD then worked in that field for a while. Money was good but it was soul destroying because I wasn't living my dream, I was doing what was considered 'sensible' by other people.

Chasing photography as a proffession is the most difficult thing I've done, but worth every bit of effort to live your dream.
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I'm the other way round. as much as I like photography I really hate doing it for other people. much prefer research and I'm certainly not in it for the money or the academic job prospects lol

out of interest what is your PhD in?
 
KIPAX said:
Is it really all about money? I make enough to live on and I get asked a lot how much.. people think your coining it in being a photographer.. I work longer hours than a checkout girl at a supermarket.. I work long weekends, I dont get sick pay or holiday pay and I spend a lot of time looking for work and hoping I can make ends meet. The checkout girl will work less hours and earn more money than me.

But I love every minute of my long hard week of work.. I wonder if the checkout girl can say she is living her dream?

If its about how much money then yes it's probably a terrible idea... But is it really just about money?
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spot on :thumbs:

I think it applies to other jobs aswell, I want to work in a apple store, and although the penthouse apartment might be nice, id pefer to be happy doing the job i do than lots of material stuff to try and compensate.
Then again that 70-200 nikon VRII does look very tempting, maybe ill become a banker first :p
 
POAH said:
making flour?
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LOL sorry started to answer on ny phone but got called away.

It was molecular genetics, I was working in forensic research. Developing techniques for profiling soil samples and very small amounts of human material for rapid ID of victims from bomb blasts etc. But my PhD was gene improvement on a barley enzyme useful to the brewing and biotech industries. It was interesting and I got to travel a bit to present material in the US and UK, but ultimately I wasn't happy doing it. I started working full time 3 years into my PhD and lost interest in my original work, in fact I only took that project on because I was offered cash by the parties interested in it on top of the scholarship I received.

Anyway, much happier doing what I love now. How about yourself?
 
my PhD is in bimolecular NMR - investigated structure function of a DNA binding domain. used photography to top up my stipend.
 
POAH said:
my PhD is in bimolecular NMR - investigated structure function of a DNA binding domain. used photography to top up my stipend.
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Oh we were in similar fields then. How far in are you with the PhD? I hated writing papers, I've been published a few times but a lot of my PhD work couldn't be published under the IP agreement I had. Science meets big business and there was more lawyers and business people involved than scientists :/
 
I could not go pro, I'm no good with money and I'm not too keen on dealing with other people so that's events and portraits out.
Sure I would love to do pro-nature photography and maybe in 10 years I'll have the skill but it's doubtful I'll have the contacts or the money for equipment or to go jetting off on my own to faraway lands.
 
lensflair said:
Oh we were in similar fields then. How far in are you with the PhD? I hated writing papers, I've been published a few times but a lot of my PhD work couldn't be published under the IP agreement I had. Science meets big business and there was more lawyers and business people involved than scientists :/
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finished it end 2008 just writing papers the now though lol. worked before my PhD and did a masters so been published through that work
 
POAH said:
finished it end 2008 just writing papers the now though lol. worked before my PhD and did a masters so been published through that work
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Ha, you sound as organised as I was ;)

Good luck with it though, its an interesting discipline, just wasn't right for me.
 
lensflair said:
Ha, you sound as organised as I was ;)

Good luck with it though, its an interesting discipline, just wasn't right for me.
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Another PhD here (in my first year though ;) ).

I have always wanted to become a musician when I was a kid..I play quite a few instruments but I was too good at school for my parents to let me take the risk! in the meantime I fell in love with computing and got a Computer Science Degree from Cambridge.

I discovered photography about a year ago and (together with music) it sucks away all my free time. But I just love it! I would never aspire to become a pro photographer or musician (a bit way too risk averse to pursue something like this) but that doesn't mean I do not enjoy it. and i love what I do as a job as well :)

I think the major problem of going pro in whatever you like is that you may start questioning your decisions when things do not go well, especially if you had something solid before your career change. Quite a few of my "pro" musician pals tell me i m lucky that i can just enjoy it without worrying too much whether it's going to pay the bills or not...On the other hand I sometimes wish I had more time to engage in it...
 
I had the most infuriating conversation with my brother in law which flirted with this subject.

Last weekend i shot my nieces wedding. it was my niece and i have to admit some of the pics were good. I've got a very basic DSLR - its entry level as thats all i am. prior to the wedding i've had about 6-8 months of learning time. Even then the pictures werent perfect I could've done a better job. typical self criticsm that every amateur photographer would say.

cue to the conversation yesterday who has says "it seems to me to become a professional photographer would be quite easy after a bit of practice." Oh man that just infuriated me and i went off on one how you can practice all you want your not guaranteed to be any good. its so much more involved than a straight point and shoot camera "yeah but once you learn that thats it"

like talking to a brick wall. Its such a competitive market out there - you really need a great back up plan to make sure your photography sessions pull through.
 
mani said:
I had the most infuriating conversation with my brother in law which flirted with this subject.

Last weekend i shot my nieces wedding. it was my niece and i have to admit some of the pics were good. I've got a very basic DSLR - its entry level as thats all i am. prior to the wedding i've had about 6-8 months of learning time. Even then the pictures werent perfect I could've done a better job. typical self criticsm that every amateur photographer would say.

cue to the conversation yesterday who has says "it seems to me to become a professional photographer would be quite easy after a bit of practice." Oh man that just infuriated me and i went off on one how you can practice all you want your not guaranteed to be any good. its so much more involved than a straight point and shoot camera "yeah but once you learn that thats it"

like talking to a brick wall. Its such a competitive market out there - you really need a great back up plan to make sure your photography sessions pull through.
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Hahah.. exact same conversation with my a friend after I shot his wedding.. no way am i a professional but everyone thinks it easy!
 
An interesting conversation going on , so if none of us do it for the money and yes we all are passionate photographers, but what is it that we do it for...? The recognition of course.... so blame the crappy school teachers or parents that never patted us on the back for anything good we did as children perhaps, and later on in life we're still seeking.... ....
 
faddy said:
Hahah.. exact same conversation with my a friend after I shot his wedding.. no way am i a professional but everyone thinks it easy!
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i think what they mean is ONCE u learn how to take good pics and have good eye for composition, the rest is plain sailing :)
 
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