Because, It's All About Light, Isn't it?

EdinburghGary

EdinburghGary

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I hope Gandhi doesn't mind me "stealing" his sig for the title of this thread, but its down to him (and PeteMC), that I am typing this :)

Anyhoo, how many of you actively "choose" to shoot in ideal light? Ie, you see a scene, or a landscape if you will...and its amazing...but you think, nope....the light, well it could be better.

How many if you aim to be out in the golden hour(s)? Do you actively plan to get out in the right conditions, or do you just go hoping for the best and then keeping the best of what was possible, based on the light available at the time?

Its something for the last few weeks which has been bugging me, a nagging feeling that I should only go out when its like this, and now that clocks have changed, I think it could be easier.

Anyhoo, sorry for the rant, and gandhi, your sig, has always made me sit back and think due to the quality of your photos. And Pete, well - top bloke, top photos, clearly he knows what he is talking about!
 
two things mate

light and time...

if you can get the two right then hey presto :clap:

good thread ...

:popcorn:


md:thumbs:
 
If you keep on thinking like that, Gary, then you're in grave danger of becoming a..........photographer :shake:
 
It is yes, but don't forget, sometimes it is making the best out of what light you have or have not got really.
 
..MD.. said:
two things mate

light and time...

if you can get the two right then hey presto :clap:

good thread ...

:popcorn:


md:thumbs:
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It is a tricky one for sure, surely worth mastering though. More so than say, bracketing and filters, or learning about the next best PP technique. Surely, getting out in this light is one of the biggest things one should aspire to do, for the sole reason, it will make your photos shine (potentially!).

Flash In The Pan said:
If you keep on thinking like that, Gary, then you're in grave danger of becoming a..........photographer :shake:
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:D

Diego Garcia said:
It is yes, but don't forget, sometimes it is making the best out of what light you have or have not got really.
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Thats a good point, and I wondered what the pros (like yourself) would do. I read an article about a guy who wanted a particular scene. he camped every night for a week, for the right light. It was a church, in the morning, surrounded by trees. He eventually got his shot, awesome it was, and he waited and waited.

danbroad said:
I often see amazing dawns - but generally from the motorway, where stopping to photograph is inadvisable..

On my days off, it just seems so..... early....
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I hear ya :D

Gary.
 
Depends on your area of photography really. If you're doing events it's like Pete says, making the best of whatever light you've got. Getting a usable image takes precedence. Somedays you get lucky and get the light, others you don't.
 
dod said:
Depends on your area of photography really. If you're doing events it's like Pete says, making the best of whatever light you've got. Getting a usable image takes precedence. Somedays you get lucky and get the light, others you don't.
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Thats a very valid point, the clock is ticking, your client wants the goods, yesterday, or as you say, you are shooting a one off timed event. In that case, you do what you can.

Its a very interesting subject I feel, and I wonder how many of us "non pros" give it the attention it deserves.
 
dod said:
Depends on your area of photography really. If you're doing events it's like Pete says, making the best of whatever light you've got. Getting a usable image takes precedence. Somedays you get lucky and get the light, others you don't.
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Which is why cameras like the D3 and Mark III have changed everything. Two seasons ago I would dream of shooting at 6400 ISO in RAW under floods and it was just that, a dream. No I/we can and it really is amazing - that has made bad light easier to beat but there is no sub for great light, or the right light.
 
EdinburghGary said:
Thats a very valid point, the clock is ticking, your client wants the goods, yesterday, or as you say, you are shooting a one off timed event. In that case, you do what you can.

Its a very interesting subject I feel, and I wonder how many of us "non pros" give it the attention it deserves.
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The more you shoot the more you learn and the less you think about the things other than light really. That is everything. When I am going on a job the first thing I do upon arrival is look up. Boxing can and often is a nightmare.

Of course with the upsurge in strobing, or flash as it used to be known, more people are taking the light with them.
 
EdinburghGary said:
Thats a very valid point, the clock is ticking, your client wants the goods, yesterday, or as you say, you are shooting a one off timed event. In that case, you do what you can.

Its a very interesting subject I feel, and I wonder how many of us "non pros" give it the attention it deserves.
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if you ever do a wedding gary it does not matter what the light is like you have to get the shots..!!!

this is a prime example that you must work with the light you have...

md:shrug:
 
I wonder, is it possible to "predict" the light? Take, Edinburgh Castle. A cliched photo to be sure, everyone and their gran has a photo of it. Not many with that special light though, it would make all the difference! How woulnd one "check in advance" whether the light was going to dance?

Is it a case of weather reports? How do you guys do it?
 
I'll sometimes have light in mind if I'm going out specifically to take photos, but most of the time I just take the camera along when I'm going somewhere anyway. In those cases I make the best of what's there, particularly if I'm not likely to be returning to a place any time soon.

I admire the people who set up tripod, compose and then wait 18 days for the right light to come along, but I'm not one of them. The best I've managed was a wait of 20 minutes and that's because I needed to stop and eat my lunch anyway. The light I was waiting for that time didn't come.
 
Unfortunately because of work I have to go when I get the time so have to do the best I can with the available light, I really would love to have the oppertunity to take some of my shots when the light is better but if I don't go to work I wouldn't be able to do any of it, so it's the lesser of the two evils.
 
The Matt said:
I'll sometimes have light in mind if I'm going out specifically to take photos, but most of the time I just take the camera along when I'm going somewhere anyway. In those cases I make the best of what's there, particularly if I'm not likely to be returning to a place any time soon.

I admire the people who set up tripod, compose and then wait 18 days for the right light to come along, but I'm not one of them. The best I've managed was a wait of 20 minutes and that's because I needed to stop and eat my lunch anyway. The light I was waiting for that time didn't come.
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:lol: Patience ;)

My longest wait, 3 hours at lands end, in a howling gale, with my dog and Claire. For the sunset. Shots were allright, but a bit predictable so they are gone. The light was lovely.

Gary.
 
scraggs said:
Unfortunately because of work I have to go when I get the time so have to do the best I can with the available light, I really would love to have the oppertunity to take some of my shots when the light is better but if I don't go to work I wouldn't be able to do any of it, so it's the lesser of the two evils.
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Thats the key, how much of a compromise should be made? if I take my camera out to Edinburgh Castle every day for a week, and still don't have the light, and on the 8th day, I get the shot I want, have I wasted the previous week? Would it have been better to have taken the best available on day 1 and move on?

Bringing work into play then, because one cannot get out as often as they like due to work, is it right to settle for less than ideal conditions? Or should you accept that you will get far less photos but of a better quality if you wait?

I dunno the answer, but these questions are starting to bug me every time I go near my kit!
 
EdinburghGary said:
Thats the key, how much of a compromise should be made? if I take my camera out to Edinburgh Castle every day for a week, and still don't have the light, and on the 8th day, I get the shot I want, have I wasted the previous week? Would it have been better to have taken the best available on day 1 and move on?

Bringing work into play then, because one cannot get out as often as they like due to work, is it right to settle for less than ideal conditions? Or should you accept that you will get far less photos but of a better quality if you wait?

I dunno the answer, but these questions are starting to bug me every time I go near my kit!
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Dont beat yourself up though Gary,

The serious landscape players out there are paid to sit and watch and have funding in the guise of books, publishers etc. The fact is that they recce a site and its light for a good year before even thinking about getting the camera out of the bag....
 
Diego Garcia said:
Dont beat yourself up though Gary,

The serious landscape players out there are paid to sit and watch and have funding in the guise of books, publishers etc. The fact is that they recce a site and its light for a good year before even thinking about getting the camera out of the bag....
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Cheers mate. I guess I just het inspired by a lot of the shots I see here, Pete, and Gandhi take some Breathtaking cityscapes / landscapes, and both bang on about this "light". I think its just part of the learning process for me. I am always trying to work out if I am doing things right, and always looking to somehow improve on the last time I picked up my camera.

Gary.
 
Depends what I'm shooting, but prefer early morning, or evening, especially winter. Summer I very rarely go out during the brightest hours (if we get any) unless its for a specific purpose. But if its landscape I always carry a compass in my bag. If the lights not quite right, wrong position etc. I'll take some location shots, direction of sun etc and at what time. Then on a return visit I'll look up sun position charts for time of year and be there at the right time.
 
TrevDR said:
Depends what I'm shooting, but prefer early morning, or evening, especially winter. Summer I very rarely go out during the brightest hours (if we get any) unless its for a specific purpose. But if its landscape I always carry a compass in my bag. If the lights not quite right, wrong position etc. I'll take some location shots, direction of sun etc and at what time. Then on a return visit I'll look up sun position charts for time of year and be there at the right time.
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Sounds like you take it quite seriously then, how are you at "predicting" decent light in advance? Is this possibly? Educated guesses almost? If you can be arsed, what do you find so special about the golden hours and are there down sides to it, from a photographic point of view (ie, ignoring the ackward timing etc)....

Gary.
 
I'm not as good with light as you guys, but if I am out and see something I take it then and there as atm I'm restricted as to how often I can get more than an hour or so to myself for photography and unless I am lucky that includes travelling to wherever I am going, so I have to make do with whatever the light (and weather) may be at that time.
 
Interesting question. I wouldn't say I wait for the light but I try and maximise my chances of getting what I want. Which is why I sometimes find myself dragging myself out of bed at 5am to try and get pics of deers, hare, seals, etc at dawn - often 2 hours drive away.

I don't always get what I want and try and make the most of it, but I generally know the pictures will be a good capture of the day but not the image I am looking for.

I think the approach will often be very different if you are shooting to record an event or whether you are trying to produce art. I know there is a big overlap, but landscape photographers have to produce art and sometimes if they don't wait for the right light, they don't get the image.

Pictures of sports, weddings, events and some wildlife won't wait and a picture in the "wrong" light is still much better than no picture at all.
 
I suppose doing landscapes or outside work, you sort of learn to predict weather.

Heres one for example. I went down last week to survey or recce the place, I went in bright daylight to see the most of the new building and took various shots. The building itself is quite nice but the location leaves a lot to be desired. So the only alternative was to make it interesting. Foreground, nice sky etc.

After thinking about a nice sunset and knowing where the sun would be and it being a nice clear cold day, I went down last night at about 3:30 to get the sun at about 4:30, this gave me an hours grace.

Anyway this shot is still being worked on but with a little planning this is what I got

CT1.jpg


Trev
 
EdinburghGary said:
How many if you aim to be out in the golden hour(s)? Do you actively plan to get out in the right conditions, or do you just go hoping for the best and then keeping the best of what was possible, based on the light available at the time?
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This is an interesting thread and something that I am struggling to get to grips with. I think I saw the light the other week. I wasn't skilled enough to capture it particularly well...




...but when I turned around and saw it hit the rocks and the jetty, I understood for the first time what it was I'd read about. And I got goosebumps! I love shooting at this time of day, and in an ideal world where I didn't have to worry about work or getting up, or sleep, or anything, or anyone, other than 'the art', I would only shoot in this sort of light.

But I can't. And I invariably end up going out with the family, middle of the day, wanting to shoot my main interest... landscapes. But I am struggling to see how good I should be able to get, or what I should be looking to learn or achieve in this 'imperfect' light. I look at 'arty' postcards by names like Joe Cornish when I'm out somewhere, but just end up wishing I wasn't there then and now, and had been there for the early light. Knowing that I can't even hope to get anything approaching a decent shot if the light isn't there in the first place.

I want to become great at landscapes. I get my camera out regardless of the light because I need to learn, practice, and improve. But perhaps because of the light, I end up being disappointed by what I produce.

Ok, that's my rambling on the subject. Hope it makes sense to someone. I'm now off for a couple of days taking the odd snapshot when I can, and probably in shight lite! ;)
 
Hi

Sounds like you take it quite seriously then, how are you at "predicting" decent light in advance? Is this possibly?

I have read articles on photography by seriously good photographers and they do Gary. Do a search for National Geographical Photographers and see what I mean.

if you ever do a wedding gary it does not matter what the light is like you have to get the shots..!!!

I agree but of course we use the light just the same. I have often heard guests who think they are photo experts say "He doesn't know what he is doing" because I have got the sun behind the subject rather than behind me. Of course I do nad he doesn't which is great. I'll always sell him a print :lol::lol:

stew
 
Yeh i often plan to be at a certain place for the light. I usually plan the exact spot i stop at for the time of day so that the light will be somewhere behind me as well.

It doesn't stop me going out at any time of day though, simply because i enjoy being out with my camera and good pictures can be had sometimes in what you think is terrible light at first.

Also if i'm sitting at home having made no plans to go out at all and suddenly see there's going to be a stunning golden hour for example, i'll often pile out the door and try to get somewhere to take advantage of it.


EdinburghGary said:
Anyhoo, how many of you actively "choose" to shoot in ideal light? Ie, you see a scene, or a landscape if you will...and its amazing...but you think, nope....the light, well it could be better.
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Werecow said:
Also if i'm sitting at home having made no plans to go out at all and suddenly see there's going to be a stunning golden hour for example, i'll often pile out the door and try to get somewhere to take advantage of it.
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This is why I don't normally plan too much for the light. It can creep up really fast, and then by the time I've got my camera stuff together and got out the house it's gone. I only really stand a chance of taking avantage of it if I'm already out with the camera.
 
Great thread this I think if you want to be a " light " Photographer then
1 you need be single :).
2 Pots cash to travel at a moments notice.
3 No work committments
That way you could travel about wherever and whenever getting great shots in the golden hours.

But in the real world really you just make do with best you can at the time .:)
ie brilliant sunset in garden and baby screaming to be fed you decide :)
 
One of the advantages of winter is that the sun angle is generally low for most of the day. Get a clearish day and you can get some great lighting conditions for most of the (short) day.

As far as predicting the weather, have a look at the Met Office web site. They have an animated map which shows the predicted weather for the next five days. The BBC have also introduced a similar option for their new Beta weather site

Links

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/uk_forecast_weather.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/
 
You can to some extent predict "good light". If you're serious about it, then you just drop everything and go. In some ways these kind of skills are more important than knowing how to operate your camera and software.

To be a successful landscaper you need to be obsessive about weather forecasts, I'm a six-a-day man myself (at least)! And because they're often not detailed enough you need to be able to read between the lines.

It plays havoc with your social life. Rather than cancel nights out I usually leave any arrangements to the last minute. I curse when the weather is good and I've got an appointment I can't avoid.

For the sort of light that I prefer - crisp, clear, good visibility - north-west winds are best; they usually follow a Cold Front.
 
Not long till the howling gale, tipping down with rain hour? :lol:
 
Werecow said:
Not long till the howling gale, tipping down with rain hour? :lol:
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:lol:

Just back, it lasted all of ten minutes where I am. The trouble is, you need to factor in trees and hills, so this "golden hour" can literally be the "golden few minutes"!

Anyhoo, will post my results shortly, not sure about them!

Gary.
 
was planning on going out for the golden hour........ but started reading this
now I have missed it!

Michael
 
Hmmmm good thread Gary, reminds me of a thread Betty started a bit back asking people what kinds of pics they like taking. Portrait? Cars? Jewelery? Animals?

Actually it does not matter to me what the subject is but more about the light. I've shot cars, deer and people just because the light has been right for me. Not to everyones tastes perhaps but what I wanted at the time.

I have driven up to the lakes in the van and dragged himself out of bed at 5am to get the sunrise at Ullswater, just because I wanted to :)
 
Don't mind you stealing my Sig at all Gary, It's good that it's spawned some interesting and intelligent debate!

From my point of view......

At the basis of all photography is the play of light and how you use it, from a simple side on flash creating drama in a portrait to flooding a room with artificial light and not creating any shadows to watching the weather forecast for winter storms because you know there is going to be breaks of light from a low sun that are going to cast magical shadows across any landscape. So everybody is right!

You can plan it with landscape photography, by knowing where the sun is going be at a certain point in the year, watching the weather and the seasonality but weather is so chaotic that trying to manage it is a bit like trying to juggle jelly when you're drunk. I've been to the same beach god knows how many times cos I know it's going to make an amazing shot, but every time I've been there, despite favourable forecasts, it's clouded over at the wrong point. Allegedly that Adams geezer waited a year for the right conditions for some famous shot of his.

After a while you kinda build up a good idea of when it's going to be good and when it's going to be alright enough for you to milk something something out of the scene with PS and filters etc. Honestly though, unless it's raining cats & dogs then it's probably going to be good somewhere at some point.

I reckon

50% Luck,
25% Watching the weather,
24% Scouting good locations
1% Photographic skill in my case.

Certainly now I'm using film more!

Benefits of the supposed golden hour are softer light, longer shadows giving more definition to features (landscape, architecture or portrait!) warmer light etc.

With digital (and I don't fully understand how this works) longer exposures will produce colours that your eye doesn't necessarily see as it compensates for whiteness/darkness etc.

I could ramble on for hours about this in the same incoherent, tipsy manner but you wont get any more sense out of me lol.

Best thing to do is get out there and get a taste for it!

Decide what you want to convey with the shot and try to match the weather/light with that vision.

Dramatic, rocky beach?? probably looks good in a storm or just after.

Gentle rolling pastures??? probably best with some nice low sun to create some definition.

Nice woodland???? probably best in the autumn with some good colour, a bit of mist and sun creating beautiful beams of light.

I really could go on and on and on about this, so I'll shut up now!
 
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