beauty dish and umbrella, whats the difference?

bomberman

bomberman

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could someone please explain what the difference is between a shoot-through umbrella and a beauty dish and what they do? and also how these compare to a softbox?

I've been looking at Dustin Diaz photos on flickr and i've decided at some point i'll probably get a 430ex just wondering what else i might need to take some interesting portraits Diaz style

P.S if you can't already tell i am a complete novice to flash photography :)
 
A shoot through umbrella is an uncontrolled soft light source that spreads light everywhere.
A beauty dish is a medium/hard light source that is highly directional, and is used to emphasise and enhance shape.

See this article on basic modifiers and this one, also by someone called Garry Edwards, on lighting people - with a couple of examples of beauty dishes in use.

BTW, I'm not certain but I very much doubt whether you can get a beauty dish of usable size that will work with a hotshoe flash.
 
I would say the defining characteristic of any light source - diffuser, light shaper, brolly, beauty dish, softbox, call it what you like - is size. Bigger gives softer shadows. To take the ultimate extremes, bright sunlight casts hard, dark, sharp-edged shadows because the sun is relatively very small. On an overcast day when the light source is effectively an entire cloudy sky, there are virtually no shadows at all.

Shoot through brollies tend to be quite big, and blast a load of light to the sides and behind them which is then reflected back from the walls/ceiling etc. This is completely uncontrolled and the final effect varies according to the room. Softboxes are similar, but catch all the waste light spilled around randomly so is much more controllable (and efficient) and can also be used close with a nice clean highlight in the eyes. Lovely :thumbs:

Reflective brollies are much more controlled than shoot-through, very cheap and easy to use. I like them a lot, but because of the way they mount you can't get them very close to the subject and the flash head sits in the middle, casting a slight shadow and making ugly highlights in eyes (IMHO). A large silver brollie used at a little distance gives a similar effect to a smaller beauty dish used close, but because of the distance the fall-off is less which maybe means it is less controllable? And the way you tend to use a beauty dish makes a brollie unsuitable a lot of the time. Subjective thing.

Basically, bigger is softer, and the various reflectors and diffusers are designed to put the right amount of light where you want it, evenly spread, and to control where you don't want it (spill). Within those very basic generalisations, the differences tend to be relatively subtle.

IMHO ;)
 
I know this is off topic, however; there is also the point that to get a suitable hotshoe adapter, and a good sized beauty dish, your talking at least £150... and even then, your going to be a little bit limited on power (I base that solely on discussions held here in the past on this subject).
£150 is a lot of brollies and a good softbox or two :D
 
Garry Edwards said:
BTW, I'm not certain but I very much doubt whether you can get a beauty dish of usable size that will work with a hotshoe flash.
Click to expand...

There are couple of BDs on the market designed for use with speedlights, but they are tiny

xl_Mini%20Beauty%20Dish%20Nikon.jpg


which makes me also question whether they would be of any real use.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
There are couple of BDs on the market designed for use with speedlights, but they are tiny

xl_Mini%20Beauty%20Dish%20Nikon.jpg


which makes me also question whether they would be of any real use.
Click to expand...

the useless one i made from a baking tray was massively bigger than that but it still wasn't much cop
 
I tried one of my friends and to be honest, on the pics, we could not tell which were softbox and which were beauty dish. Snoots and grids work wonderfully on a speedlight but the beauty dish does not give anything like the quality of light my studio one does. The only advantage I could see in using it is that being small it does not blow about in the wind like a softbox.
 
so for a beginner like me with a speedlite and a wireless trigger wanting to get into portraits in low light i would be looking at a medium-ish softbox and some home-made snoots? does that sound about right?

oh and can i attach a speedlite/softbox combo to a tripod or will i have to fork out for a proper light stand?
 
bomberman said:
so for a beginner like me with a speedlite and a wireless trigger wanting to get into portraits in low light i would be looking at a medium-ish softbox and some home-made snoots? does that sound about right?

oh and can i attach a speedlite/softbox combo to a tripod or will i have to fork out for a proper light stand?
Click to expand...

buy a 7 day shop stand for like 11 quid, softbox from FITP (the tit above) and make the snoots from black card/honeycombs from straws (I haven't gotten to the honey combs yet)
 
yeah vaguely stable, really tall (compared to tripods) and lightish. If theres any wind do remember to weight it otherwise it'll go but thats true for all lightstands

the ones 'borrowed' from spoons were perfect for the grids i have loads is just that im quite lazy
 
i was wondering how the softboxes would hold up to a gust of wind actually:D
 
Flash In The Pan said:
There are couple of BDs on the market designed for use with speedlights, but they are tiny

xl_Mini%20Beauty%20Dish%20Nikon.jpg


which makes me also question whether they would be of any real use.
Click to expand...

Indeed there are but not those little teenie tinies.

A German store FotoWalser sells a bloody good one.

Some examples from a mate of mine.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/markosaari/3950920165/

and another
http://www.flickr.com/photos/markosaari/3951696796/in/photostream/

Set up shot
http://www.flickr.com/photos/markosaari/3950919683

and another as a cherry for the doubting hot shoe whingers ;)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/markosaari/3950919595/in/photostream/
 
david1701 said:
Tomas I want one, and I want it now ........ dribbles
Click to expand...

Fotowalser are really good mate, the boom stand I've had from them have was a little shoddy but they are extremely cheap.

The flash heads and the modifiers are excellent though. :thumbs:
 
david1701 said:
worry about shipping :S at least no tax issues as its in the EU :D
Click to expand...

That's right, there are no hidden taxes ;)

It takes a little while, 7 to 10 days as they use GLS ground services (trackable).

It's cheap though, my last order was over 20 kilo and it still it cost only 20 euro (I have a business account with them).

I wouldn't worry about shipping, the responsibility is with the store after all and I've found the customer services to be more than excellent, quick response to queries and if there are any problems they resolve them quickly.
 
hahaha I meant cost not safety :D

the fact that a company has a recommendation from someone who knows their stuff is enough for me in that respect ;)
 
To revive a bit of an old thread. I've subscribed to this thread a while ago, when I started to toy about with the possibility of getting into flash photography.

With regards to the Walimex Beauty Dish, how does it mount on to a stand? I can't see well, from the pictures, how it fits on to a stand; and any recommendations on good stands would be appreciated.

Also, anyone know where can I get empty sand-bags?
 
Wail said:
To revive a bit of an old thread. I've subscribed to this thread a while ago, when I started to toy about with the possibility of getting into flash photography.

With regards to the Walimex Beauty Dish, how does it mount on to a stand? I can't see well, from the pictures, how it fits on to a stand; and any recommendations on good stands would be appreciated.

Also, anyone know where can I get empty sand-bags?
Click to expand...

The Walimex dish comes with a S-fit bayonet (Bowens) bracket, that connects to the standard 1/4 or 3/8 inch thread.

16277_bild3_250.gif


In the above picture you can just about see the brass monkey at the bottom of the frame.

Light stands need to be fairly sturdy to take the weight of a dish. The Walimex stands aren't bad at all but there are many equivalents on ebay too.
I'd get stands to accept at least 2 to 3 kilo's to be on the safe side.

Dunno where to buy empty bags but my pal made some great ones from the legs of old jeans :naughty:
 
Tomas,

Thank you very much for the reply :)

I believe then, I will order this beauty dish and the diffuser to go with it.

As for the sand bags, that's a good suggestion :thumbs:; time to raid the kids' cupboard :nuts:
 
Wail said:
Tomas,

Thank you very much for the reply :)

I believe then, I will order this beauty dish and the diffuser to go with it.

As for the sand bags, that's a good suggestion :thumbs:; time to raid the kids' cupboard :nuts:
Click to expand...

Ney bother mate,

The diffusion sock came with my mates purchase last year, maybe send them a mail and ask if it comes with.

I got a sock with my 70cm dish too :thumbs:
 
Great links Tomas - my other half is gonna kill me!!
 
That looks quite handy, especially with the diffuser too :thumbs:

Looks like you'll need an adjustable bracket/spigot thing to attach to the stand though, as you can't angle the dish the way it's shown in the pic.

Sandbags - old football socks? You'll need to supply your own sand though Wail. Got any near you?
 
Tomas Whitehouse said:
Ney bother mate,

The diffusion sock came with my mates purchase last year, maybe send them a mail and ask if it comes with.

I got a sock with my 70cm dish too :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Great, will do.


ryanyboy said:
Great links Tomas - my other half is gonna kill me!!
Click to expand...

I just don't tell he anymore, otherwise I'd be sleeping in the camle shed! :shrug:


Tomas Whitehouse said:
;) I think I lost a life when the 70cm was delivered. :lol:
Click to expand...

Now, not quit know what to make of this ... 70cm :eek:


HoppyUK said:
That looks quite handy, especially with the diffuser too :thumbs:

Looks like you'll need an adjustable bracket/spigot thing to attach to the stand though, as you can't angle the dish the way it's shown in the pic.

Sandbags - old football socks? You'll need to supply your own sand though Wail. Got any near you?
Click to expand...


Thanks Hoppy :thumbs:

With regards to the stand, I am looking at the ones FiTP is selling, along with the stand, and the SoftBox. I want to read the thread, it's rather long, first before I ask questions about these items (plus a few others that I am interested in, which he's got).

He has a ballhead for his stand, seems to be an ideal accessory :thinking:

Sand, near me :suspect: ...nop, sorry, it's all rivers, streams, snow fields here! I could send some your way, if you'd like :p

Actually, I may start a small cottage business of selling micro oil barrels and sand boxes :cuckoo:; but love the idea of the football socks :thumbs:


Rough Edges said:
You could also make one of these yourself for your hotshoe flash..

http://ishootshows.com/2010/02/09/music-photographers-diy-beauty-dish/
Click to expand...

Now that's an interesting link, thank you; knowing myself, it would cost me more in time and money to do it myself!
 
Wail said:
<snip>

Thanks Hoppy :thumbs:

With regards to the stand, I am looking at the ones FiTP is selling, along with the stand, and the SoftBox. I want to read the thread, it's rather long, first before I ask questions about these items (plus a few others that I am interested in, which he's got).

He has a ballhead for his stand, seems to be an ideal accessory :thinking:

<snip>
Click to expand...

Not the ball head - it's not up to the weight of a beauty dish. But he has a stronger one that looks the jobbie, £12 post #1 here http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=208644

Check with FITP that it will fit okay, once the cold-shoe is unscrewed from the top.
 
Thank you, yet again; I am off to read that thread, I hope to get this sorted tonight and ordered by tomorrow :)
 
Or there's the Interfit Strobies XS Bracket (also has the Bowens S-Fit on the end). It may be a bit more substantial depending on the size/weight of the light modifier you want to use.

4434505735_5a9509e94c.jpg
 
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