beauty box test

ShawWellPete

ShawWellPete

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I keep reading about Beauty dishes and I have seen many amazing photos lit by them, but I have always been a bit confused about the light they provide, it is usually described as a bit hard but with soft edges. I wanted to try it for myself but have no studio lighting, only strobes. When I read a favourable review of the Lastolite Strobo Beauty Box, I decided it was just the ticket and ordered one.

I have given it a test and I am still a bit confused.


Christian by ShawWellPete, on Flickr

It seems to me that the shadows are very harsh, I guess the fall off and the catch lights are better than a bare flash. What am I missing? am I using it wrong?
 
Before I even got to the last bit of your text I was thinking how harsh that light looks and, looking a the product photo there doesn't seem to be much in the way of diffusion material on the front.....
 
Haven't even clicked the link to see what this modifier looks like...no need to to be honest the results speak for themselves, it produces light nothing like a beauty dish, if a beauty dish is what you want, send this back
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Before I even got to the last bit of your text I was thinking how harsh that light looks and, looking a the product photo there doesn't seem to be much in the way of diffusion material on the front.....
Click to expand...

You can use diffusion on a beauty dish but that's not traditionally how they're used anyway, typically they just utilise a deflector in the centre. Using a diffusion panel turns it into a round softbox in my opinion and sort of defeats the point. Beauty dish and grids rule the world
 
This is an interesting post. That product's new to me, I've never seen one. It seems to me to be an imaginative product at a very imaginative price:(
Looking at it, I can't really see what it's actually supposed to do (which doesn't mean that it doesn't do something)

You can in fact use a real beauty dish with hotshoe flashguns, all you need is a S-fit adapter, you can then use a 40cm white beauty dish, a 40cm silver beauty dish, a 70cm white or a 70cm silver beauty dish and end up with a real beauty dish - perfectly round and with the all-important deflector that your one doesn't have. The products are Lencarta, but similar products are available elsewhere.

I wouldn't describe the light as hard so much as directional - much more so than a softbox (unless of course you fit the diffuser, which with the Lencarta models is included free) in which case it gives a very similar light to that of a perfectly round softbox. How hard or soft the light is depends, as always, on relative size - used close the light is soft, used at a greater distance it's harder, and a large beauty dish will always produce softer light at any given distance than a small one.

The light quality from beauty dishes is unique; an 'ordinary' reflector of the same size doesn't have the central deflector so has a hotspot, and also doesn't have a sharp cut off of light, which is often used to feather the light or to put light say just on the face.

The other unique quality of beauty dishes is that (IMO) they can only ever be used in one position, directly in front of the model, close and high, so that the light falls off rapidly and accentuates high cheekbones. The effect is very different if it isn't square to the subject, as in your example photo. This article shows the difference that the position makes and this article shows what a beauty dish and a range of other light shaping tools actually do.
 
Thanks for the replies guys

Flash In The Pan said:
Before I even got to the last bit of your text I was thinking how harsh that light looks and, looking a the product photo there doesn't seem to be much in the way of diffusion material on the front.....
Click to expand...

No you can put a patch on the front but that just turns it into a smaller softbox than the one I bought from you a couple of years ago.

Mahoneyd187 said:
Haven't even clicked the link to see what this modifier looks like...no need to to be honest the results speak for themselves, it produces light nothing like a beauty dish, if a beauty dish is what you want, send this back
Click to expand...

You could be right, I'm not sure they'll take it back after I have opened the packaging though. :thinking:

Mahoneyd187 said:
You can use diffusion on a beauty dish but that's not traditionally how they're used anyway, typically they just utilise a deflector in the centre. Using a diffusion panel turns it into a round softbox in my opinion and sort of defeats the point. Beauty dish and grids rule the world
Click to expand...

So is there a good beauty dish that can be used on strobes or do I need to upgrade to studio lighting to use one?
 
Garry Edwards said:
This is an interesting post. That product's new to me, I've never seen one. It seems to me to be an imaginative product at a very imaginative price:(
Looking at it, I can't really see what it's actually supposed to do (which doesn't mean that it doesn't do something)

You can in fact use a real beauty dish with hotshoe flashguns, all you need is a S-fit adapter, you can then use a 40cm white beauty dish, a 40cm silver beauty dish, a 70cm white or a 70cm silver beauty dish and end up with a real beauty dish - perfectly round and with the all-important deflector that your one doesn't have. The products are Lencarta, but similar products are available elsewhere.

I wouldn't describe the light as hard so much as directional - much more so than a softbox (unless of course you fit the diffuser, which with the Lencarta models is included free) in which case it gives a very similar light to that of a perfectly round softbox. How hard or soft the light is depends, as always, on relative size - used close the light is soft, used at a greater distance it's harder, and a large beauty dish will always produce softer light at any given distance than a small one.

The light quality from beauty dishes is unique; an 'ordinary' reflector of the same size doesn't have the central deflector so has a hotspot, and also doesn't have a sharp cut off of light, which is often used to feather the light or to put light say just on the face.

The other unique quality of beauty dishes is that (IMO) they can only ever be used in one position, directly in front of the model, close and high, so that the light falls off rapidly and accentuates high cheekbones. The effect is very different if it isn't square to the subject, as in your example photo. This article shows the difference that the position makes and this article shows what a beauty dish and a range of other light shaping tools actually do.
Click to expand...

Thanks Garry, I'll take a look at those articles. It does seem that I would have been far better off paying a little bit more and getting a large beauty dish and an adapter. I guess that is what happens when you jump to buy something before doing your homework!
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Haven't even clicked the link to see what this modifier looks like...no need to to be honest the results speak for themselves, it produces light nothing like a beauty dish, if a beauty dish is what you want, send this back
Click to expand...

By the way Danny, I have looked at your flickr stream and am very impressed with your work. :thumbs:
 
ShawWellPete said:
By the way Danny, I have looked at your flickr stream and am very impressed with your work. :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Always nice to hear, thank you kindly. There may be some beauty shots on there I'm not sure, can't remember how bad is that lol. If so, they would've been taken with a beauty dish so there's some examples, and although straight on is the usual, I actually prefer to feather beauty dishes
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
You can use diffusion on a beauty dish but that's not traditionally how they're used anyway, typically they just utilise a deflector in the centre. Using a diffusion panel turns it into a round softbox in my opinion and sort of defeats the point. Beauty dish and grids rule the world
Click to expand...

I know that, which is why I was struggling to see the point of the thing, which just looks like an Ezybox with a round mask and a hole cut in the inner diffuser :shrug:
 
Flash In The Pan said:
I know that, which is why I was struggling to see the point of the thing, which just looks like an Ezybox with a round mask and a hole cut in the inner diffuser :shrug:
Click to expand...

I am beginning to wonder what the point is myself. It comes with a removable soft panel. So I guess at worst I can keep it as a smaller softbox, but it does seem to be a bit of a disappointing product...
 
Garry Edwards said:
The other unique quality of beauty dishes is that (IMO) they can only ever be used in one position, directly in front of the model, close and high, so that the light falls off rapidly and accentuates high cheekbones. The effect is very different if it isn't square to the subject, as in your example photo. This article shows the difference that the position makes and this article shows what a beauty dish and a range of other light shaping tools actually do.
Click to expand...

Good articles Garry, very informative :thumbs:
 
Thanks for taking one for the team Pete ;)

Looks like Lastolite had an off day in the design department :(
 
Pete...

I got a nice Beauty Dish...diffuser...and grid...and with the bracket for the flash...still had change from £100...

First serious use in a couple of weeks...but the tests I shoot looked ok...and a nice variety of lighting available from 1 modifier...

I can hunt out the details of the purchase if you want...let me know...andd you can have a look at it...

STEVIER
 
THE-BIG-MAN-SAYS said:
Pete...

I got a nice Beauty Dish...diffuser...and grid...and with the bracket for the flash...still had change from £100...

First serious use in a couple of weeks...but the tests I shoot looked ok...and a nice variety of lighting available from 1 modifier...

I can hunt out the details of the purchase if you want...let me know...andd you can have a look at it...

STEVIER
Click to expand...

Sounds good big feller
 
ShawWellPete said:
:lol:

Thanks for you help Jonathan. ;)

Seriously though, am I missing something or what?
Click to expand...
I think that this is the point you're missing
You could be right, I'm not sure they'll take it back after I have opened the packaging though.
Click to expand...
I think the point may be that you've bought something that isn't very good, by mail order. There wasn't any way that you could know how good or bad it was until you opened the packaging and tried it. Personally I'd send it back.
So is there a good beauty dish that can be used on strobes or do I need to upgrade to studio lighting to use one?
Click to expand...
You sort of can, in the sense that you can buy a S-fit adapter from Lencarta (or other people) that will fit a proper beauty dish to a hotshoe flashgun but... It won't be the same because all of the light from the flashgun will bounce back from the deflector, little or none will work its way up the sides of the beauty dish. And you'll need to bodge a bit of cooking foil or similar to stop the bounced light escaping past the flashgun, losing what little power you have and causing flare - so a flash head makes sense.
 
Garry Edwards said:
.....You sort of can, in the sense that you can buy a S-fit adapter from Lencarta (or other people) that will fit a proper beauty dish to a hotshoe flashgun but... It won't be the same because all of the light from the flashgun will bounce back from the deflector, little or none will work its way up the sides of the beauty dish. And you'll need to bodge a bit of cooking foil or similar to stop the bounced light escaping past the flashgun, losing what little power you have and causing flare - so a flash head makes sense.
Click to expand...

Is that down to a speedlight being a flat opening where all the light comes out of, as opposed to a domed/globe-shaped bulb that you find in a regular flash head that will spread light in all directions, as opposed to the speedlight that just pushes it in one direction?
 
specialman said:
Is that down to a speedlight being a flat opening where all the light comes out of, as opposed to a domed/globe-shaped bulb that you find in a regular flash head that will spread light in all directions, as opposed to the speedlight that just pushes it in one direction?
Click to expand...
The light from a speedlight comes from a very small area and the built in reflector pushes it straight ahead, although I suppose that a stofen would help spread it out to some extent.

A studio flash has a much larger area and doesn't have a reflector in this situation (the beauty dish is a reflector of sorts) so although of course some of the light goes forward, some of the light goes off at an angle too, it doesn't all bounce straight back off of the beauty dish deflector. The light that does bounce back off of the deflector is then bounced forward again from the deflector just behind the flash tube.
 
Thanks Garry, I should probably come to one of yours or Jonathan's training/practice sessions and give the studio lights a go to see how they compare to the small strobes. I was due to go to one of Jonathan's but it was postponed.

Any coming up that aren't aimed at complete newbies?
 
Pete,

There's just one of mine left for this year, 27th November, and 1 left for Jonathan too, on 20th November.

That will be it for this year, but hopefully they will be re-starting in April. As for who they're for, they're for everyone. I remember Jonathan telling me that one of his delegates runs his own courses and charges £700 a pop for them. I've had a few different people on my courses who provide training courses to other people. I've had well known portrait and fashion photographers along, I've also had people who have never been in a studio before and who have never seen a flash head before.

It really doesn't make any difference. Either I can teach or I can't, and if I can then I can teach what I know to people of all levels, and make it relevant to them.

Last week, I gave some short talks on lighting to professional event photographers - fashion and beauty lighting is admittedly very different to event lighting but people told me that they found it useful; in March I (and others who haven't been asked to volunteer yet:)) will be doing the same thing at Focus on Imaging on the Lencarta stand.

And yes, beauty dishes feature large in my teaching.
 
Looking at your shot, and the example shots on their website, either

- its a rip off
- you are not using it correctly

Why not email them your shot, and ask their advice
 
ShawWellPete said:
Seriously though, am I missing something or what?
Click to expand...

Possibly literally. I've looked at the Lastolite product image for a long time. I honestly can't see why it's different from holding a circular piece of card a short distance in front of the flash gun. Yes at some distances it will make the pool of light round -but not in any useful way.

It really looks like a layer of internal bounce is missing. Every successful beauty dish I've seen sends the light forward into a small reflector then backwards into the dish and finally forwards to the subject.

As I think everybody here realises they look like this.

blog_041.jpg


That modifier just blasts light through a round hole. Yes there are reflectors and baffles and stuff but they are behind the light.

This, um, fairly uncritical review shows the effect nicely http://www.lightingrumours.com/lastolite-strobo-beauty-box-review-1539 - there's a bit less light and it's vaguely round. But, you know....

I think part of the problem is the swathe of home made "beauty dishes" around. Some of them are very good indeed and are being used to great effect. Others of them not so much. And this leads people to believe that a round light = a beauty light.

FWIW I keep meaning to advertise one of these in the classifieds. http://www.speedlightprokit.co.uk/beautydish.html I bought it which suggests it works at least a bit. But it's in perfect condition which suggests I've never used it ;)
 
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