Barbaric Cowards

It's hard to know what to say. This act of barbarism is obviously a provocative one designed to galvanise the West into starting a war. Worrying times for all of us and terrible for the victim's family.
 
The initial words that jump into my head would probably result in a temporary ban :(

What I would say is that it is good to see that we are not jumping in all guns blazing as we usually do. Meaning that once we pull out it all falls apart.
To coin an old cliché "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish...." and so on. However with so much international involvement I wonder if war at some point is inevitable.
 
Going to war with these people is what caused all this in the first place.

Best option.. Ignore them, stop reporting it every five minutes and let them kill themselves out of extinction.

Some things are just not our fight, and we need to learn to let other countries sort their own issues out, we are not the world police.
 
TCR4x4 said:
Going to war with these people is what caused all this in the first place.

Best option.. Ignore them, stop reporting it every five minutes and let them kill themselves out of extinction.

Some things are just not our fight, and we need to learn to let other countries sort their own issues out, we are not the world police.
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No. It's not.
 
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Not a very nice lot,but i watch the film Salvador last night,remember the death squad that roamed around central America backed by the CIA and their brutal reign of terror.

But from a military point of view if we are going to do anything,now the time while they are in the open.
 
viv1969 said:
No. It's not.
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Yes it is. Would ISIS or whatever the hell they are calling themselves be bothered about beheading British people if we hadn't have been involved in two wars with Iraq and one in Afghanistan and buggering about in Libya and sending arms to Syria?

No, they wouldn't. If we kept our noses out of other peoples business, we wouldn't have half the issues we do now. If different Muslim sects want to blow each other up, let them get on with it, its not our concern.
 
RichardtheSane said:
What did then?

(not arguing, just interested)
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Invading Iraq made it much worse that was a huge mistake made a lot of people hate the west
not sure what actually started it though
 
TCR4x4 said:
Yes it is. Would ISIS or whatever the hell they are calling themselves be bothered about beheading British people if we hadn't have been involved in two wars with Iraq and one in Afghanistan and buggering about in Libya and sending arms to Syria?

No, they wouldn't. If we kept our noses out of other peoples business, we wouldn't have half the issues we do now. If different Muslim sects want to blow each other up, let them get on with it, its not our concern.
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You should join.
I believe there's a masked chap at Baghdad International Airport waiting.
 
LCPete said:
Invading Iraq made it much worse that was a huge mistake made a lot of people hate the west
not sure what actually started it though
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I think you'll find that Tony Bliar and his fairy stories might have had something to do with it.

And I can't help thinking that if the west had not removed Saddam Hussein from power, then none of the stuff happening in Iraq now would ever have got going.
 
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Stuart M said:
I think you'll find that Tony Bliar and his fairy stories might have had something to do with it.

And I can't help thinking that if the west had not removed Saddam Hussein from power, then none of the stuff happening in Iraq now would ever have got going.
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Oh yes I agree with you
I meant that I'm not sure what started the whole thing historically with the Muslim extremism hating the west
 
Muslims have been killing eachother since day one, same as Christians and any other religion or faction you care to mention.

The fact is simple. If we had never, in the whole of history got involved in their battles, they wouldn't be baying for our blood. Islam is a completely different principle to western religions and we should let them deal with their own issues in their own ways without sticking our oar in all the time.

If the Syrian people want to get rid of their leader, let them.. Why does it concern us?
If a group of madmen want to go round murdering people who don't follow their ideals, let them. Why does it concern us?
If the Iraqi army wants to try and stop them, then let them. Why does it concern us?

Can you imagine having the Iraqi army turning up in London and start bombing places because the British people are fed up with the government?
 
TCR4x4 said:
If a group of madmen want to go round murdering people who don't follow their ideals, let them. Why does it concern us?


QUOTE]

it concerns me because i dont
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TCR4x4 said:
Going to war with these people is what caused all this in the first place.

Best option.. Ignore them, stop reporting it every five minutes and let them kill themselves out of extinction.

Some things are just not our fight, and we need to learn to let other countries sort their own issues out, we are not the world police.
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They cannot be ignored, the genie is out of the bottle now. Letting them establish a caliphate and more wealth to orchestrate attacks against us is not an option. Arm the local resistance on the ground, launch air strikes and even team up with Assad if need be to kill them all.
 
But if we hadn't have got involved in the first place, then they wouldn't have an interest in attacking us, that's my point.

This will be a never ending circle. Even if we destroy them, there will be more to take their place, even more hell bent on revenge. This will never end, the next generation will always want to have justice for the wrong doings they perceive of the previous generation.

Can anyone tell me how many British people were beheaded by Islamists before the first gulf war? I'd guess the number is very low.
 
Whether us going into Iraq, Afghanistan etc has made them hate us doesn't really matter, if ISIS and the rest are allowed to grow unchecked, how long do you think it will be before they turn their attention to us, whether we've peed them off or not?

I beliieve it won't end until they are stopped and that will never happen.

They hate us (the capitalists) and i can only see this ending badly for all concerned.
 
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TCR4x4 said:
But if we hadn't have got involved in the first place, then they wouldn't have an interest in attacking us, that's my point.

This will be a never ending circle. Even if we destroy them, there will be more to take their place, even more hell bent on revenge. This will never end, the next generation will always want to have justice for the wrong doings they perceive of the previous generation.

Can anyone tell me how many British people were beheaded by Islamists before the first gulf war? I'd guess the number is very low.
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You can go into infinite regression there though. Bin Laden issued a fatwa in 1998:

The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies civilians and military – is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque (Jerusalem) and the holy mosque (Makka) from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah' and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,' and 'fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah.
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How far are we supposed to go back to appease these murderous thugs? Barbarians like ISIS want to build their caliphate on the rubble of our civilization. Fighting these Islamic extremists and killing them with bombs and bullets is what we should be doing.
 
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Im the grand scheme of things, these people have nothing to do with the religion of Islam.
That we relate it so is much of the problem.
 
Laudrup said:
A bit too right-wing Israeli and neoconservative. Trying to stoke the hatred isn't what is needed.
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You obviously did not watch that, in the 10 minutes that I posted it to your reply. Closing your eyes on what is going on (on both sides) doesn't hide the facts. Watch the video, agree there will always be propaganda but look up Islamberg in USA..
 
Carlh said:
You obviously did not watch that, in the 10 minutes that I posted it to your reply. Closing your eyes on what is going on (on both sides) doesn't hide the facts. Watch the video, agree there will always be propaganda but look up Islamberg in USA..
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Clarion Fund has been criticized for its close ties to Aish Hatorah, a Jewish educational organization. According to Clarion Fund's incorporation papers, it is based at the same address as Aish Hatorah, a religious organization.

According to the International Relations Center, Eli Clifton said that the Clarion fund was attempting to “stir up a climate of fear in the United States.
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They are promoting a right-wing Israeli and necon FOX news agenda. A New York police commissioner had to apologise for appearing in the film which Muslims called inflammatory.
 
viv1969 said:
Im the grand scheme of things, these people have nothing to do with the religion of Islam.
That we relate it so is much of the problem.
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Absolutely. I see so many anti Islam/Muslim comments from ignorant people who think all Muslims are terrorists. With 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, that can't really be true.


Steve.
 
Whether the Iraq wars happened or not isn't the point. There are some that believe that there should only be Islam and will fight to that end.
 
TCR4x4 said:
But if we hadn't have got involved in the first place, then they wouldn't have an interest in attacking us, that's my point.

This will be a never ending circle. Even if we destroy them, there will be more to take their place, even more hell bent on revenge. This will never end, the next generation will always want to have justice for the wrong doings they perceive of the previous generation.

Can anyone tell me how many British people were beheaded by Islamists before the first gulf war? I'd guess the number is very low.
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Plenty during the crusades I would bet, and this goes that far back IMHO.
Some people really need to open their eyes.
 
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I know all about the paid-propaganda/shills/education by Israelis and that 6 million jews didnt die in the gas chambers in WW2 (russians lost the most and in fact won the war), Jews claimed 6 million died 10 years before the start of WWII - ignoring those facts and that our entire history is wrote by the people who are in power - where are the muslims protesting against these "radicals"? Why are there muslims, in the UK speaking aloud about killing brits. Why aren't they standing up WITH the rest of the world in sorting this all out.

No where, because they want the crap to hit the fan.

Both religions are hell bent (mind the pun) in manipulating the world to bring about the apocalypse spoken in the bible and Qu'ran. We're all screwed.
 
Steve Smith said:
Absolutely. I see so many anti Islam/Muslim comments from ignorant people who think all Muslims are terrorists. With 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, that can't really be true.


Steve.
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It's not true, only a very small percentage will be terrorists. But, Why aren't the other 1.59 billion Muslims stopping it?
 
Part of me finds it hard to believe that this is all because of the wars that we have been involved with. Lets look at the timeline

1986 - John McCarthy, Brian Keenan & 2 others taken hostage by Islamic Jihad
1987 - Terry Waite taken hostage by Islamic Jihad
1988 - Pan am Flight 103 Bombing - Supposed Libyan Intelligence Officer Jailed
1990 - First Gulf War, due to Iraq invading Kuwait and refusing to withdraw (same reason as WW2)
11/9/2001 - No need to explain
2001 - War in Afghanistan, in retaliation for 9/11
2003 - 2nd Iraq War - Supposedly about WMD's but who knows.

Looking at the timings then I find it hard to believe that the current state can be blamed on UK/US invading Afghanistan or the removal of Saddam Hussain, as to the kidnappings and beheadings these have been going on for years. Obviously we can go back in time even further and blame the Crusades, however it is hardly relevant. IS are a group of fanatical lunatics using the word of Islam as an excuse to reign terror on the globe. Unfortunately there will always be people who will jump onto the band wagon for various personal reasons causing their numbers to grow. Unless they are stopped in some way, whether it be through direct action or by supporting the forces fighting against them, then who knows where they will end.
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
Part of me finds it hard to believe that this is all because of the wars that we have been involved with. Lets look at the timeline

1986 - John McCarthy, Brian Keenan & 2 others taken hostage by Islamic Jihad
1987 - Terry Waite taken hostage by Islamic Jihad
1988 - Pan am Flight 103 Bombing - Supposed Libyan Intelligence Officer Jailed
1990 - First Gulf War, due to Iraq invading Kuwait and refusing to withdraw (same reason as WW2)
11/9/2001 - No need to explain
2001 - War in Afghanistan, in retaliation for 9/11
2003 - 2nd Iraq War - Supposedly about WMD's but who knows.

Looking at the timings then I find it hard to believe that the current state can be blamed on UK/US invading Afghanistan or the removal of Saddam Hussain, as to the kidnappings and beheadings these have been going on for years. Obviously we can go back in time even further and blame the Crusades, however it is hardly relevant. IS are a group of fanatical lunatics using the word of Islam as an excuse to reign terror on the globe. Unfortunately there will always be people who will jump onto the band wagon for various personal reasons causing their numbers to grow. Unless they are stopped in some way, whether it be through direct action or by supporting the forces fighting against them, then who knows where they will end.
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My understanding is that a lot of the recent problems were caused by the agreement to carve up the area between france russia and uk following the first world war.
 
Steve Smith said:
Absolutely. I see so many anti Islam/Muslim comments from ignorant people who think all Muslims are terrorists. With 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, that can't really be true.


Steve.
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Can't say I've noticed many Muslims in the UK demonstrating against Isis. Noticed quite a lot demonstrating against our involvement in Afghanistan.
 
Raptor Mike said:
Plenty during the crusades I would bet, and this goes that far back IMHO.
Some people really need to open their eyes.
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You reminded me reading about Richard the Lionheart and the massacre at Ayyadieh in 1191:

The most famous example occurred near Acre in the Holy Land. Richard and Saladin had been negotiating for months. Richard was to give Saladin back several thousand prisoners. In return Saladin was to pay a ransom and yield up the True Cross, which he had captured in 1187 at the Horns of Hattin. When Saladin stalled the discussions one time too many, Richard flew into a rage. He had 3,000 captured Muslim prisoners (including large numbers of women and children) taken to the nearby hill of Ayyadieh. There, in full view of Saladin and his army, they were beheaded and disemboweled. Even in an age of atrocities, this was an act of exceptional and shocking barbarity.

Both sides committed atrocities. Saladin executed hundreds of Crusaders after the battle of Hattin. And after Richard murdered the 3,000 prisoners at Ayyadieh. Saladin retaliated by slaughtering all the Christian men, women, and children he held.
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These Islamic Sate barbarians seem to want to return to the 'golden age' of Islam and the caliphate but it's not going to happen.
 
BBR said:
Can't say I've noticed many Muslims in the UK demonstrating against Isis. Noticed quite a lot demonstrating against our involvement in Afghanistan.
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I don't think I've seen many demonstrations on the news but Muslim leaders do condemn ISIS:

Muslim leaders in Britain have condemned the extremist group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis), expressing their "grave concern" at continued violence in its name.

Representatives from both the Sunni and Shia groups in the UK met at the Palace of Westminster and relayed their message that the militant group does not represent the majority of Muslims.

Maulana Shahid Raza, of Leicester Central Mosque told Sky News: "ISIS does not represent the main Sunni Muslims' ideology.

"They are involved in acts of terror and violence, they are involved in destructing and demolishing the Muslim shrines...We condemn it."
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-leaders-condemn-extremist-group-9599273.html
 
BBR said:
Can't say I've noticed many Muslims in the UK demonstrating against Isis. Noticed quite a lot demonstrating against our involvement in Afghanistan.
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It may well be, that some of the more vocal Muslims involved in marches in Luton and other places, have now joined ISIS to fight in Syria and Iraq. I sometimes think that we are far too tolerant in this country towards people who are clearly "anti British", or who spout such nonsense as "Democracy is incompatible with Islam".
The very sad fact about this latest victim of IS, is that he was abducted way back in March 2013 from a refugee camp only two kilometres from the Turkish border with Syria. At about that time, William Hague and John Kerry were quite openly talking about providing military aid to these "rebels" (The US, UK and France did provide military training), in order that they could hasten the fall of President Assad.
Fast forward to 2014, and these rebels had multiplied and crossed the border into Iraq, slaughtering Shia, Kurds, Christians, Sunnis and anyone else who would not convert to their form of extreme Sunni/Wahhabism.
The US knee jerk reaction, was to force Al Maliki to stand down in Iraq, blaming him for the state of affairs (Oh, the irony of that), accusing him of marginilising the Sunni (the people who had slaughtered Shia and Marsh Arabs under Saddam Hussein).
This whole crisis in Iraq, has been caused by our interventions in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt and Syria, where we have not given any thought to the aftermath of our actions.
ISIS are barbaric, but we enabled them to become powerful, just as the US enabled the Mujadeen/Taliban to become powerful by aiding them against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
 
ChrisHeathcote said:
Part of me finds it hard to believe that this is all because of the wars that we have been involved with. Lets look at the timeline

1986 - John McCarthy, Brian Keenan & 2 others taken hostage by Islamic Jihad
1987 - Terry Waite taken hostage by Islamic Jihad
1988 - Pan am Flight 103 Bombing - Supposed Libyan Intelligence Officer Jailed
1990 - First Gulf War, due to Iraq invading Kuwait and refusing to withdraw (same reason as WW2)
11/9/2001 - No need to explain
2001 - War in Afghanistan, in retaliation for 9/11
2003 - 2nd Iraq War - Supposedly about WMD's but who knows.

Looking at the timings then I find it hard to believe that the current state can be blamed on UK/US invading Afghanistan or the removal of Saddam Hussain, as to the kidnappings and beheadings these have been going on for years. Obviously we can go back in time even further and blame the Crusades, however it is hardly relevant. IS are a group of fanatical lunatics using the word of Islam as an excuse to reign terror on the globe. Unfortunately there will always be people who will jump onto the band wagon for various personal reasons causing their numbers to grow. Unless they are stopped in some way, whether it be through direct action or by supporting the forces fighting against them, then who knows where they will end.
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The timeline of conflict in that part of the world goes far further back and is far more complex then that
 
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