ban smoking in cars

Steep said:
Just ban smoking full stop. The NHS will stop going bankrupt, life expectancy and general health will improve, the entire nation will smell better, those who used to smoke will suddenly find they can actually afford things and power/water/soap usage will drop as there won't be the same need to wash the stink out of clothes.


Simples.
Click to expand...

NHS gets less money as there is no fag tax collected. People start living longer costing more in NHS (hip replacements, and other things that go wrong when you get old) and cost us loads more in care and pensions. Maybe we should encourage people to smoke!:)
 
cambsno said:
NHS gets less money as there is no fag tax collected. People start living longer costing more in NHS (hip replacements, and other things that go wrong when you get old) and cost us loads more in care and pensions. Maybe we should encourage people to smoke!:)
Click to expand...

but on the upside it probably saves money on dealing with cancer and emphysema
 
cambsno said:
NHS gets less money as there is no fag tax collected. People start living longer costing more in NHS (hip replacements, and other things that go wrong when you get old) and cost us loads more in care and pensions. Maybe we should encourage people to smoke!:)
Click to expand...

Or tobaco is forced underground into the hands of criminal dealers and there becomes a a greater crime rate and associated problems (think prohibition america for example)
 
big soft moose said:
Or tobaco is forced underground into the hands of criminal dealers and there becomes a a greater crime rate and associated problems (think prohibition america for example)
Click to expand...

This happens already, I see it in the pubs I frequent and I am quite sure some peeps on here buy it.
 
big soft moose said:
Or tobaco is forced underground into the hands of criminal dealers and there becomes a a greater crime rate and associated problems (think prohibition america for example)
Click to expand...

That would only happen if banned or put up to £20 a pack.
 
joescrivens said:
but on the upside it probably saves money on dealing with cancer and emphysema
Click to expand...

I really dont know the costs, but someone living from say 65 to 85 will cost another 20 years in pensions and other benefits, need 20 years worth of NHS care (hip replacements, heart problems, other organ issues etc...) and probably more care in the home etc... Point is that smoking probably doesnt cost the Government large sums as the lower cancer costs would be offset by higher other bills. Lets face it, if everyone died at 70 it would solve the pensions crisis!!
 
big soft moose said:
Or tobaco is forced underground into the hands of criminal dealers and there becomes a a greater crime rate and associated problems (think prohibition america for example)
Click to expand...

Do you agree with the criminalisation of cannabis and other drugs?

This has been an interesting thread so far and with the exception of a couple of posts it's all been polite and humorous which is good to see :)
 
As a pub landlord during the time the ban came in, there were smokers who done exactly as Just Dave stated in a previous post. However, it was case of marketing the pub towards non-smokers which thankfully I still had a lot of customers who hated the smoke. Landlords did have notice of the ban. I introduced more no smoking areas well before hand, so the smoking area was small and throughout the pub I had three smoke cleaners plus extraction fans.

I was quite happy with the smoking ban in the end ..for me...for my pub, but could see other pubs suffering because of it.

As for the ban in the car I think it's going too far, but perhaps an age limit for passengers to protect children as some one mentioned is a good idea IMO
 
cambsno said:
That would only happen if banned or put up to £20 a pack.
Click to expand...

yep - that was a response to the person who said we should ban it - prohibition doesnt work.
 
yoby said:
That's a bit naive - It's already happening at £5.50 a pack. Everyone I know who smokes would quite happily pay less for contraband tobacco/ciggies and often do when it's available.
Click to expand...

yeah but at the moment criminals are selling it cheaply to create a market in smuggled goods which undercut taxation - if tobaco was banned and therefore only available from criminals prices would rocket - canabis doesnt cost £15 per eigth of an oz to produce , its that expensive purely because its illegal
 
TriggerHappy said:
Do you agree with the criminalisation of cannabis and other drugs?
Click to expand...

on the whole no - imo most drugs including canabis, speed, E, and even classic cocaine ought to be available legally (and Taxed) which would take the money away from criminals into the exchequer and also allow for purity testing as many of the health issues attached are actually to do with them being cut with crap.

with the really serious big boys like heroin and crack possesion ought to be decriminalised up to a personal use level, and more help given to those who want to quit including the ability to get them on prescription - then the full resources of the antidrug agencies (enhanced by the extra taxation) could be brough to bear on stamping on those who deal illegally.

This has nowt to do with smoking in cars however so i'd suggest we dont stray even further OT
 
big soft moose said:
on the whole no - imo most drugs including canabis, speed, E, and even classic cocaine ought to be available legally (and Taxed) which would take the money away from criminals into the exchequer and also allow for purity testing as many of the health issues attached are actually to do with them being cut with crap.

with the really serious big boys like heroin and crack possesion ought to be decriminalised up to a personal use level, and more help given to those who want to quit including the ability to get them on prescription - then the full resources of the antidrug agencies (enhanced by the extra taxation) could be brough to bear on stamping on those who deal illegally.

This has nowt to do with smoking in cars however so i'd suggest we dont stray even further OT
Click to expand...

I know it's off topic, it's just interesting to hear other's opinions on it. As it happens I largely agree with you. Banning these substances has barely made them any harder to obtain, it's just put the profits from them into far worse hands.
 
big soft moose said:
yeah but at the moment criminals are selling it cheaply to create a market in smuggled goods which undercut taxation - if tobaco was banned and therefore only available from criminals prices would rocket - canabis doesnt cost £15 per eigth of an oz to produce , its that expensive purely because its illegal
Click to expand...

I get that but the post I was replying to suggested that people would only buy
illicit goods, and therefore the criminal market wouldn't exist, unless the price was put up to £20 a pack. There's already a market for it, and always will be while the duty on fags is 78% of the over the counter price.

Agree that if it was outlawed entirely, the 'importers' and distributors could pretty much charge what they wanted but it just won't happen (the total ban) until there's another way of filling the country's coffers........
 
If you smoke around your children, no matter if its in your car or your home, you're an inconsiderate so-and-so and shouldn't be allowed children, never mind a packet of fags.

My in-laws both smoke, but even they are considerate enough to go outside for a smoke when we take the kids round (even if they do stink themselves).
 
first person that stops me for smoking in my own car will get a mouthful of broken teeth. Sick and tired of this goddamn nanny state nation. PC nutters have ruined the country i served, and its about time they learn't to live in the real world and not the fantastical bubble that is their own world.

You go on about how damaging smoking is? well i for one have never seen anyone stagger out of a bar late at night swearing and lashing out at random *** just because they had smoked 10 cigs

Ban smoking,,,, ok then ban all alcohol aswell because thats not good for us,,, whilst we're at it ban ALL fast food because we're all getting obese oh and ban all over the counter drugs because we cant be trusted not to overdose or a child might accidently take some,, ban all tv because its a bad influence on our kids, ban all football because of the holigans, ban ALL CARS WAGONS TRAINS, MOTORISED BOATS and AIRCRAFT BECAUSE THEY PRODUCE MORE HARMFUL GASES THAN CIGARETTES, and ban all heavy industry because of all the pollution............... and im only just getting started

see what i mean????? once you start where does it end?
the trouble with this world today (not just this country) is its all ME ME ME ME im right your wrong do as i say or i'll make your life hell.....

well as i stated at the begining i wont stand for MY rights to be abused by the selfish bartenders of this country... yes i smoke and barring maybe a few of you I HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT to do so by serving my country....what the hell did you goodie 2 shoes ever do for yours?

rant over
 
Last edited:
andyst2409 said:
first person that stops me for smoking in my own car will get a mouthful of broken teeth. Sick and tired of this goddamn nanny state nation. PC nutters have ruined the country i served, and its about time they learn't to live in the real world and not the fantastical bubble that is their own world.

You go on about how damaging smoking is? well i for one have never seen anyone stagger out of a bar late at night swearing and lashing out at random *** just because they had smoked 10 cigs

Ban smoking,,,, ok then ban all alcohol aswell because thats not good for us,,, whilst we're at it ban ALL fast food because we're all getting obese oh and ban all over the counter drugs because we cant be trusted not to overdose or a child might accidently take some,, ban all tv because its a bad influence on our kids, ban all football because of the holigans, ban ALL CARS WAGONS TRAINS, MOTORISED BOATS and AIRCRAFT BECAUSE THEY PRODUCE MORE HARMFUL GASES THAN CIGARETTES, and ban all heavy industry because of all the pollution............... and im only just getting started

see what i mean????? once you start where does it end?
the trouble with this world today (not just this country) is its all ME ME ME ME im right your wrong do as i say or i'll make your life hell.....

well as i stated at the begining i wont stand for MY rights to be abused by the selfish bartenders of this country... yes i smoke and barring maybe a few of you I HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT to do so by serving my country....what the hell did you goodie 2 shoes ever do for yours?

rant over
Click to expand...

as opposed to me me me , I'll smoke if i want to even if it means poisoning those arround me against their will

Personally i don't care if you or anyone else wants to smoke themselves to death in their car if alone , or in their house alone - but they dont have the 'right' to inflict it on others including children too young to object
 
andyst2409 said:
You go on about how damaging smoking is? well i for one have never seen anyone stagger out of a bar late at night swearing and lashing out at random *** just because they had smoked 10 cigs
Click to expand...

Never seen a loved one dying in agony from cancer brought on by smoking? I have and I'd honestly rather not go through that again.

If I drink I harm myself (but only if I drink to excess), I've never staggered out of a pub blind drunk and got into a fight, ever. If I smoke I harm myself and anyone else near enough to breath in the same smoke, even if I'm the most mild mannered person in the world. That's the difference and that's why smoking should be banned.
 
big soft moose said:
as opposed to me me me , I'll smoke if i want to even if it means poisoning those arround me against their will

Personally i don't care if you or anyone else wants to smoke themselves to death in their car if alone , or in their house alone - but they dont have the 'right' to inflict it on others including children too young to object
Click to expand...

And YOU dont have the right by the same argument to drive a car ,,,,, but i bet you do, or ride a bus or train?

So dont get so bloody pretentious with me :nono:

and read the post it wasnt JUST about banning smoking..... like i said "whats next?..... where does it end????"
 
Last edited:
Steep said:
Never seen a loved one dying in agony from cancer brought on by smoking? I have and I'd honestly rather not go through that again.
Click to expand...

Honestly im sorry for your loss. I know it isnt nice.

Steep said:
If I drink I harm myself (but only if I drink to excess), I've never staggered out of a pub blind drunk and got into a fight, ever. If I smoke I harm myself and anyone else near enough to breath in the same smoke, even if I'm the most mild mannered person in the world. That's the difference and that's why smoking should be banned.
Click to expand...

you might not but there are alot of people out there that drink drive NOW TELL ME THAT DOESNT AFFECT ANYONE ELSE BUT THE PERSON WHOS DRUNK

You might not fight (if like me you find a corner and nod off :) )but i have seen plenty of people that do start fights and im sure you will have seen people whilst you were out get into a fight just because they were ****ed .... think of all the money the NHS would save if Alcohol were banned? how many lives would that save?

there are far more drinkers than smokers ...... i would be a hell of a lot more plus all the drink driving would be gone also
 
Last edited:
I don't smoke, never had & never will but this is all getting stupid, We are talking about a fully legal product, either ban it totally or leave it alone


And as for "think of the children", shouldn't we be banning pregnant women from smoking never mind the parents who abuse their children ? .

"passive smoking" ranks a bit lower than those two.....
 
to follow Hugh's logic,

And in agony from liver disease brought on by drinking - Yes, people die from avoidable things. It's a choice though isn't it ?? We all know that smoking is bad, we all know that drinking excessively is bad. Those that choose to smoke and drink do so with this knowledge. Why should there have to be legislation to replace choice? it's a waste of time, money and effort ? Who benefits? As I mentioned earlier the idiot minority will completely ignore any legislation anyhow, so who exactly would this new law protect?

Until they can find a viable way of outlawing ignorance and stupidity any of these 'for the good of the few' laws aren't worth the toilet roll that gets used in Parliament on motion day...........
 
andyst2409 said:
And YOU dont have the right by the same argument to drive a car ,,,,, but i bet you do, or ride a bus or train?

So dont get so bloody pretentious with me :nono:
Click to expand...

your argument doesnt stand up - cars are fitted with catalytic converters and tested for emmisions, and by driving my car you arent forced to inhale deeply of the exhaust gasses, so its a false comparrison

As I said I dont care if you want to inhale lots of carcinogenic tar, and nicotine etc (neither of which are found in any quantity in car exhausts) but what gives you the right to force those arround you to do so against their will.

I would have thought that someone with the courage to serve their contry would have the will power to kick the habit so presumably you smoke via choice rather than additiction and if you like the idea of heart attack, emphysema, asthma, lung cancer etc as a fair exchange for a shortlived artificial nicotine high then thats your perogative.

As i said further up i don't support the idea of an outright ban on smoking, prohibition of human vices is both futile and stupid, but I do support the ban on smoking in pubs etc, and would also be happy to see it banned in public places generally
 
yoby said:
to follow Hugh's logic,

And in agony from liver disease brought on by drinking - Yes, people die from avoidable things. It's a choice though isn't it ?? We all know that smoking is bad, we all know that drinking excessively is bad. Those that choose to smoke and drink do so with this knowledge. Why should there have to be legislation to replace choice? it's a waste of time, money and effort ? Who benefits? As I mentioned earlier the idiot minority will completely ignore any legislation anyhow, so who exactly would this new law protect?

Until they can find a viable way of outlawing ignorance and stupidity any of these 'for the good of the few' laws aren't worth the toilet roll that gets used in Parliament on motion day...........
Click to expand...

YAY someone with some (notso these days)common sense, its basically what i said but put alot better
 
andyst2409 said:
Honestly im sorry for your loss. I know it isnt nice.



you might not but there are alot of people out there that drink drive NOW TELL ME THAT DOESNT AFFECT ANYONE ELSE BUT THE PERSON WHOS DRUNK

You might not fight (if like me you find a corner and nod off :) )but i have seen plenty of people that do start fights and im sure you will have seen people whilst you were out get into a fight just because they were ****ed .... think of all the money the NHS would save if Alcohol were banned? how many lives would that save?

there are far more drinkers than smokers ...... i would be a hell of a lot more plus all the drink driving would be gone also
Click to expand...

Yeah but drink driving and fighting in the street are already banned so again i'm not sure what logical point you are trying to make.

if someone wants to poison themselves with alcohol then thats their choice but their actual consumption of alcohol doesnt force those arround them to drink to excess also - its only the behaviours that effect those arround them and the antisocial ones are already banned
 
big soft moose said:
Yeah but drink driving and fighting in the street are already banned so again i'm not sure what logical point you are trying to make.

if someone wants to poison themselves with alcohol then thats their choice but their actual consumption of alcohol doesnt force those arround them to drink to excess also - its only the behaviours that effect those arround them and the antisocial ones are already banned
Click to expand...

And why shouldn't it be someones choice to smoke as well? - Again, aside from the moronic minority that will and do smoke around their children (who can't do anything about it) I think you'll find that the rest of the smokers wouldn't force anyone around them to have a fag either.

It's all back to choice and common sense - If you don't like smoke, don's stand next to a smoker why does it need to get more complicated?
 
big soft moose said:
your argument doesnt stand up - cars are fitted with catalytic converters and tested for emmisions, and by driving my car you arent forced to inhale deeply of the exhaust gasses, so its a false comparrison

As I said I dont care if you want to inhale lots of carcinogenic tar, and nicotine etc (neither of which are found in any quantity in car exhausts) but what gives you the right to force those arround you to do so against their will.

big soft moose said:
I would have thought that someone with the courage to serve their contry would have the will power to kick the habit so presumably you smoke via choice rather than additiction and if you like the idea of heart attack, emphysema, asthma, lung cancer etc as a fair exchange for a shortlived artificial nicotine high then thats your perogative.
Click to expand...

At last someone who gets it...... yes it is MY CHOICE something alot of people would take away from me if they could.

big soft moose said:
As i said further up i don't support the idea of an outright ban on smoking, prohibition of human vices is both futile and stupid, but I do support the ban on smoking in pubs etc, and would also be happy to see it banned in public places generally
Click to expand...

i agree completley in the bans you mention above, except for outside as rightly or wrongly i see it as no more harmful than (oh let acknowladge your car point here) Buses, and wagons etc that run along the roadside

BUT MY CAR IS MY PRIVATE PROPERTY (not that i ever smoke in it anyway) NAD THEREFORE AS I PAY FOR THE MAINT, THE FUEL, THE TAX, an d THE INSUREANCE if i want to smoke in it i will.
Click to expand...
 
big soft moose said:
Yeah but drink driving and fighting in the street are already banned so again i'm not sure what logical point you are trying to make.
Click to expand...

oh sorry my bad of course its been banned...therefore it never happens:lol::lol::lol:
 
yoby said:
There goes another screen wipe !!! Coffee everywhere again.......
Click to expand...

pmsl

yoby said:
And why shouldn't it be someones choice to smoke as well? - Again, aside from the moronic minority that will and do smoke around their children (who can't do anything about it) I think you'll find that the rest of the smokers wouldn't force anyone around them to have a fag either.

It's all back to choice and common sense - If you don't like smoke, don's stand next to a smoker why does it need to get more complicated?
Click to expand...

hear hear ty for making that point

as it seems all non smokers seem to tar us all with the same brush

and couldnt possibly concieve of the idea that most of us smokers are or try to be VERY mindful of non smokers.... shame the attitude isnt returned
 
Last edited:
right kettle on for a coffee


now its time to pop out for a smoke :)
 
andyst2409 said:
first person that stops me for smoking in my own car will get a mouthful of broken teeth.
Click to expand...

If it's passed as a law and it's a policeman who stops you and you carry out that threat, you'll have more than a £50 fine to pay :nono:

andyst2409 said:
You go on about how damaging smoking is? well i for one have never seen anyone stagger out of a bar late at night swearing and lashing out at random *** just because they had smoked 10 cigs
Click to expand...

I've heard this argument a million times and it never fails to amaze me how smokers don't see the difference here.

Let me elaborate....

There is a percentage of people who drink alcohol where their actions affect others, be it by verbal or physical abuse from drinking too much or by drink driver. However that percentage of alcohol drinkers is the vast minority. For the majority of people who drink alcohol they only affect themselves

Smokers however are the opposite. If I stand next to you whilst you smoke it directly affects me, every single time. Stand next to you whilst you drink a pint of ale and there is no effect to me.
 
yoby said:
And why shouldn't it be someones choice to smoke as well? - Again, aside from the moronic minority that will and do smoke around their children (who can't do anything about it) I think you'll find that the rest of the smokers wouldn't force anyone around them to have a fag either.

It's all back to choice and common sense - If you don't like smoke, don's stand next to a smoker why does it need to get more complicated?
Click to expand...

because your choice to smoke affects anyone within a particular distance of you. Choosing to do many other pastimes that are directly bad for your own health don't. You can drink a pint, snort cocaine or even put heroin into your veins and I can be stood next to you with no health effects. But you light a cigarette and i breath in your toxins.

smoking is the most antisocial pastime possible. Why should I have to move away from where I am standing because you want to do something that also affects me, you should be the one who moves away.
 
To me this isn't about smoking or not smoking / drinking or not drinking it's the erosion of choice, common sense and responsibility that this kind of legislation engenders.
It's all being chipped away piece by piece a little here a little there.

There's far too many blank faces and empty minds out there as it is, continue down this path and there'll be no need to make a decision on anything. This will lead to the whole 'nothing to do with me' attitude spiralling out of control as these people will rightly or wrongly believe that if the government has decided that it's their concern then it can't possibly have anything to do with the individuals themselves......

How did we all cope growing up in the 70's ?? EVERYBODY smoked, nothing in the fridge had a sell by date, buses, lorries and taxis caused months of fog in the Autumn and the only cyclists that wore crash helmets were motorcyclists...... As far as I know, everyone I went to Infant and junior school with are still alive and well (with the exception of a couple of accidental deaths - RTA's and one murder).

At some point in the future we'll not be able to take a dump without it passing inspection for the dietary approval legislation....
Paranoid? possibly but look at all the itty bitty legislation that gets passed all the time. Most of it you could argue rescinds a right here or a right there so where does it all stop?
 
joescrivens said:
If it's passed as a law and it's a policeman who stops you and you carry out that threat, you'll have more than a £50 fine to pay :nono: .
Click to expand...

....and you thats going to stop me???? If someone (god forbid) raped my gf you think i would stand by and let the police handle it???? no id go out there find the ********** and kill him. now thats an extreme i know but the same ethos applies.... I long ago gave up any hope of justice and law in this country as there seems to be no justice and as for law HA! just another system for the government (whichever one) to gather more money ie our police today are nothing more than glorified traffic wardens ... but in a social sense.

joescrivens said:
I've heard this argument a million times and it never fails to amaze me how smokers don't see the difference here.


Let me elaborate....

There is a percentage of people who drink alcohol where their actions affect others, be it by verbal or physical abuse from drinking too much or by drink driver. However that percentage of alcohol drinkers is the vast minority. For the majority of people who drink alcohol they only affect themselves

Smokers however are the opposite. If I stand next to you whilst you smoke it directly affects me, every single time. Stand next to you whilst you drink a pint of ale and there is no effect to me.
Click to expand...

Its obviously YOU who dont see the the difference here..... if i am smoking in a place where i am allowed by law YOU HAVE THE CHOICE to stand next to me or not..... whereas YOU would have MY CHOICE whether i would like to smoke or not removed..... ie i have to live my life by YOUR rules????

two words to that and the second one is off!
 
yoby said:
To me this isn't about smoking or not smoking / drinking or not drinking it's the erosion of choice, common sense and responsibility that this kind of legislation engenders.
It's all being chipped away piece by piece a little here a little there.

There's far too many blank faces and empty minds out there as it is, continue down this path and there'll be no need to make a decision on anything. This will lead to the whole 'nothing to do with me' attitude spiralling out of control as these people will rightly or wrongly believe that if the government has decided that it's their concern then it can't possibly have anything to do with the individuals themselves......

How did we all cope growing up in the 70's ?? EVERYBODY smoked, nothing in the fridge had a sell by date, buses, lorries and taxis caused months of fog in the Autumn and the only cyclists that wore crash helmets were motorcyclists...... As far as I know, everyone I went to Infant and junior school with are still alive and well (with the exception of a couple of accidental deaths - RTA's and one murder).

At some point in the future we'll not be able to take a dump without it passing inspection for the dietary approval legislation....
Paranoid? possibly but look at all the itty bitty legislation that gets passed all the time. Most of it you could argue rescinds a right here or a right there so where does it all stop?
Click to expand...

but hasnt the quality of life and life expectancy increased in the last 40 years? Surely thats the direct affect of a lot of these changes due to health.

You might argue that your quality of life hasn't increased as a smoker, but mine certainly has as a non smoker the fact I am less exposed to smoke
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top