ban smoking in cars

Yv said:
yes, but then I don't think its fair that you can get done for either of those too, I don't think any of them are as distracting as cd systems and sat navs or indeed passengers, especially the little ones! So where do you draw the line?

...I have lost count of how many times I see cars with sat navs plonked right on top the dash board immediately in front of the driver and it annoys the hell out of me, you can't even SEE the bloody road with it there. Same thing goes for the dangly things people have hanging from mirrors, the peripheral vision isn't faultless and a child running from the side of the road could so easily register in the mind as that dangly thing and you don't quite react as quick as you might have done... so should just everything be banned?
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I wish my danglie thing could reach the rear view mirror.
 
Yv said:
perhaps read my earlier post? I certainly don't smoke if a child is in the car [though fortunately that is a very rare occurence for me] and I don't think there are a huge number that do now. Yes there will always be a minority, but do we really need a rule for this? As a country aren't we already bogged down by rules and red tape?
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i did read your earlier post but just because you wrote that doesn't mean it's true, and vice versa for me. I personally have been exposed to a lot of smoking in the car when i grew up. I do think it is quite common especially from low educated adults who don't think about the consequences

It's worth bringing in a rule like they have in australia where you cant smoke with kids in the car - why would you be against this if you don't smoke when they are in the care anyway?

This would mean that those responsible people who don't do it anyway wont be affected and the ones that do can be punished for doing so.
 
Jordan,
As a smoker I can't disagree that yes, dropping a fag in your lap causes a bit of a flap. As a coffee drinker I have to say the same (it just hurts more). In all the years I've been smoking and driving I can honestly say that I've only ever had a fag on the backseat once and my lap twice. I never crashed on any of those occasions.

I have however nearly crashed due to a wasp. I guess if I hadn't been smoking the window would have been up and the wasp would have remained outside the vehicle so it could be said that it was indirectly caused by smoking.

Enforcement wise, we had a couple of roads snarled up, here in Essex a few months ago. The local council (supported by lots and lots of policemen had set up roadblocks so that they could check the ashtrays of 'works' vehicles and report them for smoking in a banned vehicle. As far as I know, there wasn't a single fine issued because all of the drivers denied it was them, and said it must have been someone else using the van.... It caused uproar and solved nothing.

Happy to agree to disagree regarding our views on whether it should or shouldn't be banned.

Would love to see some raw data for the attributed causes of accidents over a year though....
 
big soft moose said:
by that logic we might as well do away with the speed limits and parking laws - after all people break them all the time and get away with it :shrug:

That said the offence of driving without due care and attention already exists - so the police could take action against anyone doing anything that distracts their attention from the road ( I saw a bloke yesterday driving while either surfing the net or watching a film on a tablet held in the middle of the wheel !! - okay we were in a slow moving traffic jam , but i was still glad he was next to me rather than behind me) so imo we dont need new laws , we just need to enforce the laws we have.
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funnily enough I actually agree with you, it is not more laws we need, just proper use of the ones we have - I never understood the mobile phone rule when the DWDC rule was already in existence and covered a multitude of sins, as it were. The money spent on passing these ever more precise laws, then collecting the data around them afterwards would surely be better spent on educating the masses about what constitutes 'safe' driving. :shrug:
 
tiler65 said:
We are not asking to ban smoking....just asking for smokers to be more considerate of a filthy disgusting habit. :gag:
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We are considerate. We've accepted the ban on smoking in public places which incidentally has just about killed the pub trade and we nip and stand outside in the rain if we want a fag. The trouble is you guys just never give up - with the holier than thou crap.

I 'm 68 years of age and grew up in the era of Marlborough Man and ' You're Never Alone With A Strand'. I've smoked at least 20 a day since I was 16, grew up in a house with smoking parents, drank out of lead water pipes, bit the heads of lead soldiers covered in lead paint, and survived a gazillion health hazards at which which people throw up their hands in horror today. I've never spent a day in hospital in my life and i'm still here.

Smoking may well contribute to cancer, but it's also true that many people who never smoked in their lives will die of cancer - that would still be the case if they banned smoking tomorrow. Whether or not you get cancer is a lottery, although there are hereditary aspects to it too.

When life has been made intolerable for just about everyone with this nonsense people will still die - get used to the idea. ;)
 
My favourite smoking-in-the-car tale was my mate, many, many years ago with his brand new lease car, first day with it he opened the window on the motorway, flicked cigarette out, wind caught it, blew it straight back in whereupon it landed on the rear seat and set it alight.

Schadenfreude, I believe the word is :lol:
 
Yv said:
yes, but then I don't think its fair that you can get done for either of those too, I don't think any of them are as distracting as cd systems and sat navs or indeed passengers, especially the little ones! So where do you draw the line?

...I have lost count of how many times I see cars with sat navs plonked right on top the dash board immediately in front of the driver and it annoys the hell out of me, you can't even SEE the bloody road with it there. Same thing goes for the dangly things people have hanging from mirrors, the peripheral vision isn't faultless and a child running from the side of the road could so easily register in the mind as that dangly thing and you don't quite react as quick as you might have done... so should just everything be banned?
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i completely agree about satnavs.

im just saying smoking is as bad or worse than some other currently frowned on activities while driving
 
joescrivens said:
i did read your earlier post but just because you wrote that doesn't mean it's true, and vice versa for me. I personally have been exposed to a lot of smoking in the car when i grew up. I do think it is quite common especially from low educated adults who don't think about the consequences

It's worth bringing in a rule like they have in australia where you cant smoke with kids in the car - why would you be against this if you don't smoke when they are in the care anyway?

This would mean that those responsible people who don't do it anyway wont be affected and the ones that do can be punished for doing so.
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But how will they be punished? Who's enforcing it etc......
It's a wider issue than being against it despite not actually doing it. It's simply unnecessary interference. If we hadn't had common sense and choice educated away, legislated away and downright discouraged for the lat 15 years then we wouldn't need any of these silly laws.

Rather than try to enforce common sense at great expense to us the tax paying public, would it not be better to educate ??


@Yv - Great minds think alike, was still typing and never saw yours !!
 
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joescrivens said:
i did read your earlier post but just because you wrote that doesn't mean it's true, and vice versa for me. I personally have been exposed to a lot of smoking in the car when i grew up. I do think it is quite common especially from low educated adults who don't think about the consequences

It's worth bringing in a rule like they have in australia where you cant smoke with kids in the car - why would you be against this if you don't smoke when they are in the care anyway?

This would mean that those responsible people who don't do it anyway wont be affected and the ones that do can be punished for doing so.
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.... Joe, two things - firstly, how many years is it since you grew up [actually, on second thoughts, don't answer that, you are a bloke so I know its still happening :p :D JOKE! ] every year more and more people 'get wise' and have more consideration for any passenger, not just kids. Secondly, it's not this one simple law that is the problem, if I thought for one minute that making it illegal to smoke while kids are in the car would be as far as it went, then fine, I would agree, but it won't be. It will then be a total ban, then carried on to our homes and other private places and so the ball will keep rolling....
 
CT said:
We are considerate. We've accepted the ban on smoking in public places which incidentally has just about killed the pub trade and we nip and stand outside in the rain if we want a fag.
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I really wish the recession hadn't happened at the same time as the smoking ban came in. Smokers keep telling me that the smoking ban killed the pub trade but every smoker I know still goes to the pub.

I think the recession affected the pub trade much more than the smoking ban did, but smokers seem to want to harp on that it was this ban that did it. Of course we'll never be able to prove otherwise. But once the recession is over we'll see. Theres already signs of the pub trade getting back on it's feet. 2 pubs re-opened in my town in the last 2 months and the real ale trade is one of the only industries that is increasing. We now have more microbreweries in this country than ever before
 
CT said:
We are considerate. We've accepted the ban on smoking in public places which incidentally has just about killed the pub trade and we nip and stand outside in the rain if we want a fag. The trouble is you guys just never give up - with the holier than thou crap.
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Maybe we drink too much too...... my theory is that the supermarkets have killed the pub trade with cheap booze.

What about....'Start the day with a Craven 'A'...' :gag:

I grew up in house of smoking parents and grandparents and siblings and I was fed up to the back teeth of stinking of smoke all the time....Oh but you forget that part because you stink all the time also.

Do any of you smokers believe you don't stink all the time?
 
yoby said:
But how will they be punished? Who's enforcing it etc......
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I guess the same way mobile phones are punished? Is it an on the spot fine? I know it would be hard to enforce, but just because it is - does that mean it shouldn't be done?

Yv said:
every year more and more people 'get wise' and have more consideration for any passenger, not just kids. Secondly, it's not this one simple law that is the problem, if I thought for one minute that making it illegal to smoke while kids are in the car would be as far as it went, then fine, I would agree, but it won't be. It will then be a total ban, then carried on to our homes and other private places and so the ball will keep rolling....
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i never had you down for someone so paranoid! :lol:
 
CT said:
We are considerate. We've accepted the ban on smoking in public places which incidentally has just about killed the pub trade and we nip and stand outside in the rain if we want a fag.
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CT, if you ever come down to the northerly reaches of the big smoke, give me a shout, will take you to what has become our 'local' [its 5 miles away, our high street no longer has pubs on it] and introduce you to the best little smoking area I know ;)
 
joescrivens said:
I really wish the recession hadn't happened at the same time as the smoking ban came in. Smokers keep telling me that the smoking ban killed the pub trade but every smoker I know still goes to the pub.

I think the recession affected the pub trade much more than the smoking ban did, but smokers seem to want to harp on that it was this ban that did it. Of course we'll never be able to prove otherwise. But once the recession is over we'll see. Theres already signs of the pub trade getting back on it's feet. 2 pubs re-opened in my town in the last 2 months and the real ale trade is one of the only industries that is increasing. We now have more microbreweries in this country than ever before
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LOL Let's see, the pubs I go in now at lunchtimes are frequented by mostly elderly couples going in for the cheap meals and while sipping their orange juice or cuppa tea casting disapproving glances at the 2 or 3 guys at the bar (all that's left of the regulars) who might actually be having a pint. :rules:
 
Yv said:
CT, if you ever come down to the northerly reaches of the big smoke, give me a shout, will take you to what has become our 'local' [its 5 miles away, our high street no longer has pubs on it] and introduce you to the best little smoking area I know ;)
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Might just take you up on that gal. ;)
 
Our local has constructed a large roof over half their garden and its busier outside the pub than inside it even has a pool-table under it as well
 
CT said:
LOL Let's see, the pubs I go in now at lunchtimes are frequented by mostly elderly couples going in for the cheap meals and while sipping their orange juice or cuppa tea casting disapproving glances at the 2 or 3 guys at the bar (all that's left of the regulars) who might actually be having a pint. :rules:
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The smoking ban hasn't stopped you going to the pub.
 
CT said:
LOL Let's see, the pubs I go in now at lunchtimes are frequented by mostly elderly couples going in for the cheap meals and while sipping their orange juice or cuppa tea casting disapproving glances at the 2 or 3 guys at the bar (all that's left of the regulars) who might actually be having a pint. :rules:
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lunchtimes aren't best known for the sale of alcohol during the week though to be fair.

the real ale trade couldn't expand if people weren't buying it, and it's not for bottled beers only either. Many microbreweries only produce cask ale which have to be served in the pub, of which the newest in my town has 13 pumps!!!! much to my delight :thumbs:
 
My ex smoked in the car and as a non smoker my observations would be that the dangerous side of it is before the cigarette is lit. Rooting around for the fag packet, trying to get the fag out of the packet. Rooting around in a couple of pockets to find the lighter.

I never found the smoking particulary offensive, I used to be much more annoyed about the fact he opened the window whilst he smoked it and it was flipping freezing sat in the passenger seat.

Not sure it could be policed. Not sure it should have to be either. Along with others I find mobile phone use much more frustrating and dangerous and you see that on a regular basis.
 
Just Dave said:
It stopped myself and a lot of my friends, we just get together in each others homes now
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for every smoker that stopped i bet there would have been a non smoker that started going if the recession hadn't kicked in. It came at exactly the same time as I had my daughter and we take our children to the pub for dinner/lunch at least twice a week. There's literally no chance we'd be going to the pub with them if there wasnt a smoking ban in place
 
joescrivens said:
It came at exactly the same time as I had my daughter and we take our children to the pub for dinner/lunch at least twice a week. There's literally no chance we'd be going to the pub with them if there wasnt a smoking ban in place
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lots of smokers dont go to the pubs to dine in as well,

mind you I hate it when folk used to smoke in dinning rooms anyway, even though its allowed in a lot of countries
 
tiler65 said:
Maybe we drink too much too......
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I rest my case, When we've banned smoking and drinking - what next - sex or mebbe at least tax it? Fit everyone with a meter you have to feed with 50p pieces every time you want to get your leg over - solve the deficit crisis in no time.


Do any of you smokers believe you don't stink all the time?
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Nice! I dunno - how about your halitosis or generally bad BO - sufferers are usually the last to realise. :shrug: Are you aware that outside of an internet bulletin board you're probably the most boring company anyone could be saddled with?
 
Apologies to continue going OT with the smoking ban in pubs issue, but how do you explain 5,500 pubs going to the wall in the UK since Scotland first introduce the ban in '06?

I even know of a pub in the midlands where the landlord used to allow smoking, because he could easily recoup the cost of the fines with the increase in trade...
 
CT said:
I rest my case, When we've banned smoking and drinking - what next - sex or mebbe at least tax it? Fit everyone with a meter you have to feed with 50p pieces every time you want to get your leg over - solve the deficit crisis in no time.




Nice! I dunno - how about your halitosis or generally bad BO - sufferers are usually the last to realise. :shrug: Are you aware that outside of an internet bulletin board you're probably the most boring company anyone could be saddled with?
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Touched a nerve stinky? What do you mean probably? ;)
 
tiler65 said:
Touched a nerve stinky? What do you mean probably? ;)
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Now you're being downright offensive. I wonder if you'd care to repeat that to my face if you ever come out from behind your keyboard?
 
CT said:
Now you're being downright offensive. I wonder if you'd care to repeat that to my face if you ever come out from behind your keyboard?
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How is that offensive, if you smoke I will guarantee you stink. And yes I will repeat it to your face.
 
joescrivens said:
I really wish the recession hadn't happened at the same time as the smoking ban came in. Smokers keep telling me that the smoking ban killed the pub trade but every smoker I know still goes to the pub.

I think the recession affected the pub trade much more than the smoking ban did, but smokers seem to want to harp on that it was this ban that did it. Of course we'll never be able to prove otherwise. But once the recession is over we'll see. Theres already signs of the pub trade getting back on it's feet. 2 pubs re-opened in my town in the last 2 months and the real ale trade is one of the only industries that is increasing. We now have more microbreweries in this country than ever before
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Agree, I go to the pub more and we go as a family more now too to local village pubs. I used to hate walking into a fog cloud then stinking when I got home.
FWIW I would have had no problem for a smoking room and a totally seperate non smoking room. What is killing our pub trade is the lack of good public transport after 10pm and the cost of beer compared to supermarket deals.
 
joescrivens said:
I guess the same way mobile phones are punished? Is it an on the spot fine? I know it would be hard to enforce, but just because it is - does that mean it shouldn't be done?
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When I said how will it be punished I meant enforced apologies - I spend most of my week on the M25 and if it wasn't so scary it'd be laughable how many people don't use hands free kits. You can always tell someone's on the phone when their speed drops off and they wander across the lanes. On the spot fines are perfect, you just need to actually catch someone doing it first and with more cameras and less coppers on the roads it just isn't going to happen.

That leaves us with yet another un-enforcable law that benefits no-one yet technically criminalises an estimated 22% of the adult population (assuming that they are also drivers -it's likely to be more like 19% of the population).

Surely (as I said before) it'd be cheaper, more efficient and a lot less hassle all round to educate people about not smoking in cars whilst carrying children, or from a safety perspective rather than passing a law that'll be ignored by many......
 
tiler65 said:
How is that offensive, if you smoke I will guarantee you stink. And yes I will repeat it to your face.
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We can't guarantee you don't stink anyway can we? Certainly your posting attitude does. As for repeating it to my face - well we'll see - perhaps a TP meet some time.
 
Catdaddy said:
Apologies to continue going OT with the smoking ban in pubs issue, but how do you explain 5,500 pubs going to the wall in the UK since Scotland first introduce the ban in '06?

I even know of a pub in the midlands where the landlord used to allow smoking, because he could easily recoup the cost of the fines with the increase in trade...
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Like i said, the smoking ban hit right at the same time the reccession started to hit, how can you know that the smoking ban closed those pubs and not the fact people just had less money in their pockets.

When the recession picks up and the smoking ban is still in force we'll see what happens to the pub trade then
 
tiler65 said:
How is that offensive, if you smoke I will guarantee you stink. And yes I will repeat it to your face.
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CT said:
We can't guarantee you don't stink anyway can we? Certainly your posting attitude does. As for repeating it to my face - well we'll see - perhaps a TP meet some time.
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Kiss and make up keyboard warriors, or the mods will no doubt lock this :thumbs:
 
joescrivens said:
Like i said, the smoking ban hit right at the same time the reccession started to hit, how can you know that the smoking ban closed those pubs and not the fact people just had less money in their pockets.

When the recession picks up and the smoking ban is still in force we'll see what happens to the pub trade then
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Without a doubt, the recession will have had something to do with it... but weren't we already in a recession in '07 when the ban came into force in England? The smoking ban just accelerated the process...

Here's what I was reading, and it's echoed elsewhere as well... http://retailtimes.co.uk/smoking-ban-to-blame-for-pub-decline-in-uk/
 
Just ban smoking full stop. The NHS will stop going bankrupt, life expectancy and general health will improve, the entire nation will smell better, those who used to smoke will suddenly find they can actually afford things and power/water/soap usage will drop as there won't be the same need to wash the stink out of clothes.


Simples.
 
Catdaddy said:
Without a doubt, the recession will have had something to do with it... but weren't we already in a recession in '07 when the ban came into force in England? The smoking ban just accelerated the process...

Here's what I was reading, and it's echoed elsewhere as well... http://retailtimes.co.uk/smoking-ban-to-blame-for-pub-decline-in-uk/
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i had a read but i think they have simplified it too much. It's not easy to put one reason on a cause if you ask me, I think everything together resulted in the closures incresing. But whats obvious is that the beer industry in britain is bucking the trend of other industries and growing where everything else is falling. Camra estimate that a pub increases it's sales by 14% by offering real ale instead of mass produced lager
 
joescrivens said:
i had a read but i think they have simplified it too much. It's not easy to put one reason on a cause if you ask me, I think everything together resulted in the closures incresing. But whats obvious is that the beer industry in britain is bucking the trend of other industries and growing where everything else is falling. Camra estimate that a pub increases it's sales by 14% by offering real ale instead of mass produced lager
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That last statistic I can fully appreciate, believe me! :)

A couple of mates ran a pub, and as soon as the ban was introduced, they noticed a significant drop-off in trade. I think the second year's statistics are pretty indicative - pub closures going from about 1% in the first year to just over 4% in the second. Surely the first year would have been the one to give a good 'control' figure for recession-based closures.

Still, getting back on topic, I don't think they'll ever catch me with a lit ciggie in the car with my kids... They wouldn't be able to see me - I'll be ducked down behind the dash taking a quick draw... :thumbs:
 
CT said:
We are considerate. We've accepted the ban on smoking in public places which incidentally has just about killed the pub trade and we nip and stand outside in the rain if we want a fag. The trouble is you guys just never give up - with the holier than thou crap.

I 'm 68 years of age and grew up in the era of Marlborough Man and ' You're Never Alone With A Strand'. I've smoked at least 20 a day since I was 16, grew up in a house with smoking parents, drank out of lead water pipes, bit the heads of lead soldiers covered in lead paint, and survived a gazillion health hazards at which which people throw up their hands in horror today. I've never spent a day in hospital in my life and i'm still here.

Smoking may well contribute to cancer, but it's also true that many people who never smoked in their lives will die of cancer - that would still be the case if they banned smoking tomorrow. Whether or not you get cancer is a lottery, although there are hereditary aspects to it too.

When life has been made intolerable for just about everyone with this nonsense people will still die - get used to the idea. ;)
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Well said Sir.
 
Just Dave said:
It stopped myself and a lot of my friends, we just get together in each others homes now
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and drink super market alcohol which is a lot cheaper... that applies to a lot of non smokers too, and thats what's done for the pub trade

add in the cheaper sky packages and such which mean that people dont have to go to the pub to watch sky sports

and the recession which means that people have less spendable in their pockets anyway

The only reason i can see for having to go to the pub is if you want to play pool/darts (or down here skittles) which it is difficult to do at home
 
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