Ban on halogen bulbs takes effect from 1st September

StewartR

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StewartR said:
Just in case you haven't seen this in the news - and you might not have, it hasn't exactly been high profile:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/aug/11/switch-led-light-bulbs-halogen-ban

When I first heard of the ban, a couple of weeks ago, I assumed it would be 1st September 2019. But no, it's in 11 days time.
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I have changed all of my halogen bulbs for led's for financial reasons. In the kitchen of this house there are six downlighters, when I moved in they were fitted with 50 watt halogens, these consumed 1kWh (electricity unit) every three hours. The 5 watt leds they are now fitted with consume one tenth of that.
 
Earley Man said:
I have changed all of my halogen bulbs for led's for financial reasons.
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Yeah, I would do, except it's not always so simple.

I've replaced all my "big" lightbulbs by LEDs. However I have numerous light fittings that look broadly similar to this:
upload_2018-8-20_10-50-13.png

Typically they use multiple G9 halogen bulbs, typically 28W to 33W, with an output of 350 to 450 lumens. In order to replace them, I would need to find LEDs which are:
  1. small (so that they fit within the crystal light fittings, instead if sticking out way beyond them);
  2. bright (350 lumens minimum, preferably 450 lumens);
  3. dimmable (since most of these are in bedrooms).
Unfortunately no such product exists. The typical nearest replacement in terms of power output and dimmability looks like this:
upload_2018-8-20_10-58-55.png

So for these fittings, currently, there's no economic case for replacing with LEDs. I would need to replace the entire fittings with something more compatible with the size of LED bulbs, and the cost of doing that would dwarf the ongoing savings. So in the short term I'm stockpiling G9 halogens, hoping that they'll last me until either (a) dimmable LEDs become smaller and more powerful and can be used with these fittings, or (b) we want to redecorate the rooms anyway.
 
StewartR said:
Yeah, I would do, except it's not always so simple.

I've replaced all my "big" lightbulbs by LEDs. However I have numerous light fittings that look broadly similar to this:
View attachment 132687

Typically they use multiple G9 halogen bulbs, typically 28W to 33W, with an output of 350 to 450 lumens. In order to replace them, I would need to find LEDs which are:
  1. small (so that they fit within the crystal light fittings, instead if sticking out way beyond them);
  2. bright (350 lumens minimum, preferably 450 lumens);
  3. dimmable (since most of these are in bedrooms).
Unfortunately no such product exists. The typical nearest replacement in terms of power output and dimmability looks like this:
View attachment 132688

So for these fittings, currently, there's no economic case for replacing with LEDs. I would need to replace the entire fittings with something more compatible with the size of LED bulbs, and the cost of doing that would dwarf the ongoing savings. So in the short term I'm stockpiling G9 halogens, hoping that they'll last me until either (a) dimmable LEDs become smaller and more powerful and can be used with these fittings, or (b) we want to redecorate the rooms anyway.
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What about these?
https://www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/...MIie_qtvH73AIVLLftCh09HwS7EAQYAiABEgJoAvD_BwE

Only 9mm longer than a standard G9 and their dimmable. Surely less obtrusive than the 60mm length shown above.

yay/nay?
 
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stupar said:
What about these?
https://www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/10-pcs-ywxlight-dimmable-4w-g9-led-bi-pin-lights-t-14-smd-2835-300-400-lm-warm-white-cool-white-ac-220v-ac-110v_p5166241.html

Only 9mm longer than a standard G9 and their dimmable. Surely less obtrusive than the 60mm length shown above.

yay/nay?
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Mmm, interesting. I don't know whether or not the 9mm is an issue, and they are on the fat side (16mm vs 12mm for regular halogens) so they might not fit, and I find it a little concerning that the output is described as 300 to 400 lumens. I can't imagine why there would be such variability; and for my usage 400 lumens would be OK but 300 would be a bit dim. Still, they're quite cheap, so I might buy a handful to try them out. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
srichards said:
These are GU5.3 or sommat. I'm assuming smaller GU number means smaller fitting.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-GU5-3-35W-lumens-Dimmable/dp/B01GRYJ5E4
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Yes. When the fitting cointains the letters GU, the number is the distance between the two pins on millimetres. So GU9 and GU5.3 are mutually incompatible, and those bulbs are of no interest and no use to me.

Plus they're *huge*.

I'm beginning to think that of my three requirements:
1. Small (as small as standard GU9 halogens)
2. Bright (as bright as standard GU9 halogens)
3. Dimmable
I can meet any one of them, and possibly two, but not all three simultaneously. At least, not yet.
 
StewartR said:
Mmm, interesting. I don't know whether or not the 9mm is an issue, and they are on the fat side (16mm vs 12mm for regular halogens) so they might not fit, and I find it a little concerning that the output is described as 300 to 400 lumens. I can't imagine why there would be such variability; and for my usage 400 lumens would be OK but 300 would be a bit dim. Still, they're quite cheap, so I might buy a handful to try them out. Thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...

The variable output will depend on the colour output you choose - the warmer the output, the more the colder wavelengths have to be attenuated. Basically a warm bulb is a cold bulb with the cold wavelengths removed, and it drops the output.
 
I have 9 halogen downlights in my kitchen/dining room, on two switches - so 4 or 5 or all 9 can be on at one go. I rarely have these on for a hour a day. on average over the year.

The issue is that I need to also replace transform section as LED bulbs will not work properly with the straight halogen low voltage. My last calculation was a 5 year period before i saw a return.

The rest of the house is LED with the decorative lights using CFC golfballs. These get used for no more than 10 minutes a day so again not economical to replace until needed
 
StewartR said:
Mmm, interesting. I don't know whether or not the 9mm is an issue, and they are on the fat side (16mm vs 12mm for regular halogens) so they might not fit, and I find it a little concerning that the output is described as 300 to 400 lumens. I can't imagine why there would be such variability; and for my usage 400 lumens would be OK but 300 would be a bit dim. Still, they're quite cheap, so I might buy a handful to try them out. Thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...

Let us know if they work as I have a similar requirement, although only for a couple of fittings.

I do feel somewhat conned over the move from incandescent to low wattage to halogen to LED. What is next I wonder.

Each move has been expensive and I find that the quality of the light fittings has deteriorated and the long life claims for the new bulbs are suspect. When we refurbished the kitchen 6/7 years I replaced the old style floucesent double tube fitting with a halogen fitting. The first gave too much of a spotlight on effect, the second was not much better so I went for new style thin floucesent light fitting which provides more than adequate light, but the tubes do not last long. The old ones lasted years.

When the bathroom was renovated 5 years ago, they fitted so called top quality sealed LED units. However, 60% failed within two years, some where replaced under warranty some were not. I eventually gave up on those and replaced them with units with replaceable bulbs.

Replacement LED bulbs for old style fittings have been fine, so perhaps the technology has reached a stage where it is reliable.
 
LED is great and I think we are now seeing the era of reliable and well priced.
As energy gets more expensive I guess we all need to do our best.
also I suppose I would rather spend money keeping people in work making light fittings and bulbs than just on buying energy.
 
So its a ban on sales rather than use. Only a problem, as a few have stated, in existing fittings that won't naturally take LED equivalents.
 
It's not even a ban on sales (read the article...), just that the supplying retailers won't be able to get more stocks once current supplies are exhausted.

From the article
the Energy Saving Trust estimates that the typical halogen uses £11 of electricity a year while a replacement LED would use only £2 worth.
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So it shouldn't take long to save the cost of replacing the existing fittings with similar, LED compatible ones rather than keep a supply of less efficient lamps to suit the current fittings.
 
1. In time more LED products will became available in smaller or different sizes

2. You can stock up now

3. I bet Aliexpress will still happily ship you all the Chi-com goodies (no tax on small orders either)

4. What about car halogen bulbs? Why wouldn't the be included and where does it lead us?

5. You have to be careful with LED products and look for the highest CRI index and no-flicker types.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
4. What about car halogen bulbs? Why wouldn't the be included and where does it lead us?
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They're powered from the battery / alternator, not the national grid, and compared to the energy involved in moving the car the draw of the lamps is tiny.

There's also a problem of beam pattern, which I suspect retro-fit conversions into existing headlight assemblies would struggle with.
 
Well, I like my halogen lights via a dimmer switch in the living room. However, last year I fitted a LED type light fitting in that room just to see if it looks better, but then had to fit an ordinary on/off switch due to the lack of dimming and ended up hating it so much that I've reverted back to the classic bayonet type with the return of the dimmer switch. Buggered I'm gonna change it all back again.
 
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That’s a good point, we have an infrared switch in the living room (predates us) That you just wave a hand in front of, or move it slowly to dim, it has no straight on/off setting.
 
StewartR said:
Just in case you haven't seen this in the news - and you might not have, it hasn't exactly been high profile:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/aug/11/switch-led-light-bulbs-halogen-ban

When I first heard of the ban, a couple of weeks ago, I assumed it would be 1st September 2019. But no, it's in 11 days time.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but I'm wondering are you worried?

That sounds like it only applies to shops selling light bulbs. They're the ones who will stop selling halogen bulbs and sell more LED bulbs. It's not like the Light Police is coming into your homes to arrest you for still using halogen bulbs. Once your halogen bulbs burnt out, next time you go shopping, you're likely to end up finding no halogen bulbs.
 
jamesev said:
So its a ban on sales rather than use. Only a problem, as a few have stated, in existing fittings that won't naturally take LED equivalents.
Click to expand...

Well, it would depend on what kind of socket and cap it take, and I'm guessing also depend on what kind of switch. If your lights use BC socket and you find LED bulbs with BC cap, then great, just fit them. But if your lamp takes screw mount and you can't find a LED with a screw type cap, then problem. If you use a normal on/off switch, great, but if you use a dimmer switch, problem.

I would say not really a problem, but more like teething problem. But I'm sure in future, fittings will phase over and take LED equivalents, and hopefully who knows? Technology makes it possible for LEDs to work with dimmer switches (but I'm not an electrician so I wouldn't know if it could work).
 
Update to my last comment:

I've just popped into the local Wilko and it is as feared, no halogen, and of course no filaments bulbs, to be seen anywhere - now ALL LED types only. However, I noticed there are some dimmable LED types with the bayonet fitting so I chanced my arm and bought three of those (£4 each as I have a three light chandelier type lamp in the living room) and . . . blow me down, they actually work with the existing dimmer switch (actually, the light was the horrible harsh daylight blue so I went back to the shop and exchanged them for the warmer type). So it all works, just nowhere as bright as the old halogen type which won't please my elderly mother with her failing eyesight, but at least for now I'm spared the task of p**sing about with changing switches and light fittings.
 
onomatopoeia said:
They're powered from the battery / alternator, not the national grid, and compared to the energy involved in moving the car the draw of the lamps is tiny.

There's also a problem of beam pattern, which I suspect retro-fit conversions into existing headlight assemblies would struggle with.
Click to expand...

It is still energy that needs needs to be generated by burning oil products. It could be reduced thus cutting CO2 output.

the chi-com LED bulb patterns are clearly off but if the companies actually spent some R&D money on developing retrofit solution I'm sure we'd get there fairly soon. LEDs can now be shaped almost any way you like, much more so that the older CREE type. You just know that in 5-10 years halogen bulbs will be history and they will need a replacement unless the current cars will be history too.
 
Major Eazy said:
That sounds like it only applies to shops selling light bulbs. They're the ones who will stop selling halogen bulbs and sell more LED bulbs. It's not like the Light Police is coming into your homes to arrest you for still using halogen bulbs. Once your halogen bulbs burnt out, next time you go shopping, you're likely to end up finding no halogen bulbs.
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Well, yeah. And since I have an awful lot of halogen bulbs in light fittings for which no like-for-like LED replacement currently exists, that's a problem. It's not a major problem, because I expect the LED technology should catch up within a few years and I can easily stockpile some halogens to tide me over. But it would be a bigger problem if I hadn't seen this news, and it might be a bigger problem for other people if they hadn't seen the news, which was why I posted it.
 
I hope that LED technology has moved on in the last 2 or 3 years, I thought I'd give them a try in my kitchen, in one of the spot fittings ( 3 bulbs per unit)
GU10's on a dimmer, I was happy enough to use the dimmer as a push on / off, rather than a dimmer in the interests of "science"
They started to "blow" within about 3 months ( and they weren't exactly cheap either) and the light really was crap!
They all soon when in the bin.
Where as the GU10's last years, I really can't remember the last time I replaced a GU10 in the other fitting.
And about 2-3 years as the replacements, and still going strong :thumbs:

I have a stock of those and the G9's |( also on a dimmer) so I'm sorted.
When they eventually run out, I'm sure we will still be able to buy them on the black market, sorry, I mean Ebay ;)
 
So does this mean the lava lamp is now doomed to a life of illuminated immobility?
 
StewartR said:
Well, yeah. And since I have an awful lot of halogen bulbs in light fittings for which no like-for-like LED replacement currently exists, that's a problem. It's not a major problem, because I expect the LED technology should catch up within a few years and I can easily stockpile some halogens to tide me over. But it would be a bigger problem if I hadn't seen this news, and it might be a bigger problem for other people if they hadn't seen the news, which was why I posted it.
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True. Guess you got to go and buy as many as you can and you gotta do it now. Remember some companies started a bit early, often as soon as they became aware of new laws, they stop stocking in order to try to get rid of what's left of their stock so they won't have any left by the time the ban comes into force, rather than have a stockpile they can't sell once the ban comes into effect.

Plus you posted that news item, so now other people are trying to beat you to it, so you better get going with your shopping before they buy them all up. :-)

Good luck.
 
Major Eazy said:
Plus you posted that news item, so now other people are trying to beat you to it, so you better get going with your shopping before they buy them all up. :)
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I was already sorted before I made the post. I'm not as stupid as I look.
 
Cobra said:
I hope that LED technology has moved on in the last 2 or 3 years, I thought I'd give them a try in my kitchen, in one of the spot fittings ( 3 bulbs per unit)
GU10's on a dimmer, I was happy enough to use the dimmer as a push on / off, rather than a dimmer in the interests of "science"
They started to "blow" within about 3 months ( and they weren't exactly cheap either) and the light really was crap!
They all soon when in the bin.
Where as the GU10's last years, I really can't remember the last time I replaced a GU10 in the other fitting.
And about 2-3 years as the replacements, and still going strong (y)

I have a stock of those and the G9's |( also on a dimmer) so I'm sorted.
When they eventually run out, I'm sure we will still be able to buy them on the black market, sorry, I mean Ebay ;)
Click to expand...

We had real problems with haolgen bulbs in our kitchen, not just because it needed 7 X 50W, but because they'd blow every few months even though we had a dimmer. They've all be replaced with LEDs for 3-4 years now. The first set of LEDs were dreadful, and not only expensive, but behaved as you describe. Better replacements came from first Philips and then CPC. Now performance from 7 and 9 watt LEDs is pretty close to 50W Halogens.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
3. I bet Aliexpress will still happily ship you all the Chi-com goodies (no tax on small orders either)
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Don’t be so sure, China is going green as well, they’ve already banned incandescent bulbs (similar ban and timescale to the EU ban) and it probably won’t be long before they follow suit on halogens.
 
Whut now!! I just bought a pack of Halogen bulbs for the kitchen today. These ones here:

31YVNQdqBqL.jpg



Can I even get LED in that type? I know this is a UK ruling but we usually follow suit
 
Cagey75 said:
Whut now!! I just bought a pack of Halogen bulbs for the kitchen today. These ones here:

31YVNQdqBqL.jpg



Can I even get LED in that type? I know this is a UK ruling but we usually follow suit
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It’s an EU Directive, so it’s safe to say it will be happening in Eire.

EU directive 1194/2012 relates to directional halogen lamps (spotlights) and EU directive 244/2009 relates to non-directional halogen lamps (usually candle or GLS shaped).

GU10, R63 and R50 spotlight bulbs, known as directional halogen lamps, which have an extremely low “D” energy rating, will indeed be the first to be phased out from 1st September 2016 as confirmed by the European Council last year. Although manufacturers will no longer be able to supply these lamps to the European market they will continue to be available until existing stock has been exhausted.

A wider ban on non-directional halogen lamps such as candle or traditionally shaped bulbs was originally intended to come into force on 1st September 2016, however last year the EU announced that this would be postponed until 1st September 2018 as they concluded it was too early for LED technology to replace all halogen lamps.
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http://www.currentforce.co.uk/index...-lamps-and-the-eu-ban-what-s-really-happening
 
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Cagey75 said:
Dang, might be ok for now though as that bulb is a G9, they're only 25w, but the stupid fitting in the kitchen takes 3 of them. I hate them, but it could mean having to replace the whole fitting
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Read my posts, and the replies I received, earlier in the thread. I have 35 of these exact bulbs throughout the house.
 
StewartR said:
Read my posts, and the replies I received, earlier in the thread. I have 35 of these exact bulbs throughout the house.
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I did kind of skim read, guilty. I have a very cheap source for them, my local dealz, twin pack for €1.50! I bought two yesterday, had I seeen this is have bought them all
 
Been amassing a sizeable stash of halogens since this was first touted, so I'm goid for sone considerable time. :-)
 
viv1969 said:
Been amassing a sizeable stash of halogens since this was first touted, so I'm goid for sone considerable time. :)
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The problem with that is, once these EV's become all the rage, we'll be back to candles as there won't be enough electrickery for light bulbs :D
 
Went LED when they became less unaffordable than they were when they were first available. Got a couple of halogen based lamps but they'll be replaced fairly soon.
 
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