Backdrops

[ninjakatt]

Hi - I have searched the archives for 'Back drops' / 'backgrounds' but I'm not having much luck...

I'm looking for a plain background, in white and also one in black...

I will be shooting pole dancers (the fitness kind) as well as family shots of my own family...

My area is 10ft wide by 20ft long.

I am trying to decide between a Lastolite Hilite background or a roll of paper on a stand type set up...

Obviously when the girls are on the pole then I can't roll out a backdrop past the pole but that wouldn't affect the imagery as it'd be mostly static inverted strength moves. So I'm wondering whether a Hilite would be better, but how do people tend to merge the bottom of the backdrop with the white/coloured floor so there's no obvious join? Is there a thread on this setup/technique?

I'm guessing the disadvantage of the hilites is that they are not as easy to store away when not in use? I like the way you can roll up a back drop (useful with two young children with sticky fingers in the house!)

Do people have preferences between the two types? Thanks in advance

 

[TG.]

Hi - I have searched the archives for 'Back drops' / 'backgrounds' but I'm not having much luck...

I'm looking for a plain background, in white and also one in black...

I will be shooting pole dancers (the fitness kind) as well as family shots of my own family...

My area is 10ft wide by 20ft long.

I am trying to decide between a Lastolite Hilite background or a roll of paper on a stand type set up...

Obviously when the girls are on the pole then I can't roll out a backdrop past the pole but that wouldn't affect the imagery as it'd be mostly static inverted strength moves. So I'm wondering whether a Hilite would be better, but how do people tend to merge the bottom of the backdrop with the white/coloured floor so there's no obvious join? Is there a thread on this setup/technique?

I'm guessing the disadvantage of the hilites is that they are not as easy to store away when not in use? I like the way you can roll up a back drop (useful with two young children with sticky fingers in the house!)

Do people have preferences between the two types? Thanks in advance

To be honest i think you would have as much problem with a Hi-lite as you would with any other background, as you mentioned as with paper, you won't be able to get the floor beyond the pole, unless you do it all in photoshop, the only way to do it easily, is to have your dancer maybe halfway up the pole, so you don't see the floor at all, lighting the Hi-lite floor has it's own degree of problems due to the join to the background, and getting the light even between background and floor, i normally do it quite easily in lightroom, if you have a larger space to move the lighting back from the subject, it is easier, but if your working in a tight spaces as i do, it's almost inevitable you will need to light the floor with LR or PS. As regards storing the Hi-lite, i have a couple of them, and they fit under the bed in my spare room, they pack down quite well, so not really difficult to store, unless of course you have very limited room. Hope that helps

 

[michael kilner]

try a vinyl,I got one from bessel,black on one side white on the other

 

[ninjakatt]

Thanks for your thoughts..I think I'm going to go with a background roll and stand initially...

 

[ninjakatt]

try a vinyl,I got one from bessel,black on one side white on the other

Thanks... This stuff I'm thinking? http://www.bessel.co.uk/acatalog/Vinyl.html WIll investigate - thank you...

 

[paul williams]

What sort of height do you have to shoot in? As Tel suggests it might be easier to not show the floor at all, or just not worry about the transition from floor or raised platform to wall as it would be quite normal to see this with a pole dancer. Also with paper (which TBH should be considered as a consumable) you could just cut a slot in it to accommodate the pole (probably only need a foot or two and sort that out in PP. Another point to remember is a large light source at a distance will mean the fall-off of light intensity is reduced so will give a more even look to the picture - I have successfully lit a motorcycle, two models, the floor & background with just two lights. What equipment do you have available? This is perhaps a time to go for a nice large silver brolly!

Paul

 

[ninjakatt]

Hi thanks for your response... The pole itself is 9ft high and for the higher inverted moves I will simply not be showing the floor...! Some of the girls like to have some semi-seductive poses stood against the pole, which is when I would require the flooring to be shown... I think you're right though, a hole could be cut into the paper.

BTW I decided to go with a lencarta support system and Lastolite backing papers in black and white

I have 2 smartflash 200's but no large silver brolly as yet

I've previously only done pole competitions and showcases in a large theatre type environment ...this is obviously going to be slightly different...an easier to control lighting setup, but a tighter space to work in! I have a queue of ladies from my pole classes waiting to be my guinea pigs so will have plenty of opportunity to experiment with light!

 

[paul williams]

I the past I've always used paper or cotton myself, but recently bought some grey vinyl from one of the usual suppliers and not too impressed with it, so will return to using paper in the long term - though to be honest you can use practically anything with a bit of thought...and don't forget that a reflector can be a great secondary light source, so 8x4 foot polystyrene slabs (one side painted black) make great reflectors/flags if you have the space to store them.

Paul

 

[TG.]

bought some grey vinyl from one of the usual suppliers and not too impressed with it

Paul why is it your not impressed with the grey vinyl ? and do you have other vinyl backdrops that your happy with ? the reason i ask, i have been buying paper backdrops, as i was getting a good deal on them, i realise these are only a temporary fix (unless you want to keep replacing them) but i was thinking of getting a few vinyl ones, but because of the price, this will take a while longer for me, so i'm quite interested to hear your findings on the vinyl backdrops, thanks Tel

 

[paul williams]

Paul why is it your not impressed with the grey vinyl ? and do you have other vinyl backdrops that your happy with ? the reason i ask, i have been buying paper backdrops, as i was getting a good deal on them, i realise these are only a temporary fix (unless you want to keep replacing them) but i was thinking of getting a few vinyl ones, but because of the price, this will take a while longer for me, so i'm quite interested to hear your findings on the vinyl backdrops, thanks Tel

Hi Tel,

Beside the smell and weight I find it too glossy/shinny/reflective to be 100% neutral as a totally usable background. It is OK, but put it side-by-side with paper and the difference is quite obvious IMO. It all depends on your priorities I suppose - with a bit of care it will last for many many years so I can understand for a high volume user (event photographer) it is perhaps the number one option. Then again I also expect there are better vinyls out there - I just went for one of the cheaper ones that was often recommended by users on this forum.

Paul

 

[TG.]

Thanks for the info Paul, yes i have seen some shots myself, were the vinyl has reflected, but like you say, their may well be some that are better than others, the paper rolls are great for no creases, the few times I've used them though, i find when you have it on the stand, and you start to unroll it from top to bottom, it has a mind of it's own and won't stop,lol, i try to get as much as i need out, then tape the sides to the upright stands, (this helps)then i tape it to the floor, great on laminate, crap on carpet, but very nice finish, and if you only need it for three quarter length shots, it could last you quite some time, as no one is standing on it

 

[paul williams]

I always use my rolls be-it paper or vinyl with an Expan type system with a friction brake so controlling it isn't a problem if using rolls on a crossbar try stuffing some foam rubber between the tube and the bar. For using on carpet I have some taped together sheets of 2x4 foot hardboard which can be folded up out of the way.

Paul

 

[TG.]

I always use my rolls be-it paper or vinyl with an Expan type system with a friction brake so controlling it isn't a problem if using rolls on a crossbar try stuffing some foam rubber between the tube and the bar. For using on carpet I have some taped together sheets of 2x4 foot hardboard which can be folded up out of the way.

Paul

Yes the Expan system is great, but as far as i know, not portable for using in peoples homes, great tip about putting some rubber foam in the tube though, i will definitely do that next time, also thought about the hardboard idea, what sort of tape do you tape it with ? presumably something that is strong, and will last.

 

[paul williams]

Yes the Expan system is great, but as far as i know, not portable for using in peoples homes, great tip about putting some rubber foam in the tube though, i will definitely do that next time, also thought about the hardboard idea, what sort of tape do you tape it with ? presumably something that is strong, and will last.

you can use these with superclamps or these on top of stands for a single roll Expan set - I used to leave the Expan units in the paper rolls, just removing the chain. For the joints in the boards I just use a good quality 'gaffer' tape as a hinge. It will split over time but you just re-tape again.

Paul

 

[TG.]

you can use these with superclamps or these on top of stands for a single roll Expan set - I used to leave the Expan units in the paper rolls, just removing the chain. For the joints in the boards I just use a good quality 'gaffer' tape as a hinge. It will split over time but you just re-tape again.

Paul

Thanks for those links Paul, i'm not sure how the baby hook would work, however the price is outrageous at £40.95 for one hook, i won't be getting those anytime soon, i think i will stick with your idea, of putting some foam between the bar and the background roll

 

[mikeplow1961]

I just use cheapo A clamps. I have a 2m x 6m vinyl roll on an aluminium core and once it's unrolled to a certain length it would keep going till the lot was on the floor. I just put an A clamp on one end, one jaw inside the core, one outside and it stops it turning any further. Cost a whole quid for four at Poundland. They also do smaller ones at 6 for a quid which i used for clipping wallpaper to a hardboard background.

 

[paul williams]

I just use cheapo A clamps. I have a 2m x 6m vinyl roll on an aluminium core and once it's unrolled to a certain length it would keep going till the lot was on the floor. I just put an A clamp on one end, one jaw inside the core, one outside and it stops it turning any further. Cost a whole quid for four at Poundland. They also do smaller ones at 6 for a quid which i used for clipping wallpaper to a hardboard background.

Yes, that is indeed the cheapest solution to stop the roll 'un-rolling' but is not much good a controlling the roll as you un-roll it or aiding you re-rolling it after use - which seems to be the problem most people have, hence the suggestion of putting something between the tube and support pole to add friction.

Paul.

 

[paul williams]

Thanks for those links Paul, i'm not sure how the baby hook would work, however the price is outrageous at £40.95 for one hook, i won't be getting those anytime soon, i think i will stick with your idea, of putting some foam between the bar and the background roll

I've seen the 'baby hooks' for about £35 a pair & Superclamp hooks for about £10 - just trying to remember where. I currently use a cheap Chinese version of the Expan System which was 'really' cheap from eBay - not a patch on the real Manfrotto set-up but works fine.

Paul

 

[The Noir Dude]

You could also look at the new Lastolite Panoramic! It's taller than the Hi-Lite.

 

[TG.]

I currently use a cheap Chinese version of the Expan System which was 'really' cheap from eBay

I've seen these on ebay Paul HERE but Interfit also do a complete set with poles HERE still don't look as good as the Manfrotto set though, can't seem to see a complete Manfrotto set including poles. Did your ebay setup come with the poles too ?

 

[TG.]

You also look at the new Lastolite Panoramic! It's taller than the Hi-Lite.

Only comes in a couple of colours though, the material still looks creased, and their is no floor with it.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Hi Tel,

Beside the smell and weight I find it too glossy/shinny/reflective to be 100% neutral as a totally usable background. It is OK, but put it side-by-side with paper and the difference is quite obvious IMO. It all depends on your priorities I suppose - with a bit of care it will last for many many years so I can understand for a high volume user (event photographer) it is perhaps the number one option. Then again I also expect there are better vinyls out there - I just went for one of the cheaper ones that was often recommended by users on this forum.

Paul

Yes, these are the common problems with vinyl. I have a white vinyl background from Viewfinder that I'm happy with, but anyone buying a vinyl background does need to accept that the cheap, thin ones that are often sold for photographic use are not in fact designed for this purpose and are cheap for a reason.

If the surface is shiny, if it's too thin to hang properly and if it isn't supported properly, a vinyl background becomes a problem, not a solution.

 

[paul williams]

I've seen these on ebay Paul HERE but Interfit also do a complete set with poles HERE still don't look as good as the Manfrotto set though, can't seem to see a complete Manfrotto set including poles. Did your ebay setup come with the poles too ?

The eBay ones are similar to mine and cost IIRC £45, they didn't come with poles or clamps - but I've been doing studio photography as a hobby for over 30 years and as a consequence have loads of 'gripware' & stands including autopoles and superclamps. Occasionally I have a clear-out, but wouldn't part with the autopoles or any of the grip equipment and in reality shouldn't have parted with my original Expan set, I just wasn't using it at the time, loaned it out and after several years they thought they ought to give me some cash for it...

 

[paul williams]

Yes, these are the common problems with vinyl. I have a white vinyl background from Viewfinder that I'm happy with, but anyone buying a vinyl background does need to accept that the cheap, thin ones that are often sold for photographic use are not in fact designed for this purpose and are cheap for a reason.

If the surface is shiny, if it's too thin to hang properly and if it isn't supported properly, a vinyl background becomes a problem, not a solution.

Actually looking at the cost of the ones from Viewfinder, there is only a minimal difference in cost against the one I bought...

Paul

 

[The Noir Dude]

Only comes in a couple of colours though, the material still looks creased, and their is no floor with it.

Material is crease free. Only green and black at the moment, white is due in the next week or so. Others such as graffiti wall etc are expected this year.

Correct, no floor, I just bought some cheap vinyl for flooring.