back-ups

its completely retarded. now the persons whos data i was trying to recover is either lost or they will have to pay a fortune to recover.

whereas other drives you'd normally be able to get the drive out and pop it into another sata enabled device/machine.
 
@neil_g

I am really sorry to hear about the issues you have experienced. I hope they were under warranty and you were able to get a replacement.
As far as it concerns the bridge board - it is integrated to keep the form factor of the drive small and it helps prevent issues that could happen with the bridge board being a separate component.

Cheers
 
Dorian_WD said:
@neil_g

I am really sorry to hear about the issues you have experienced. I hope they were under warranty and you were able to get a replacement.
As far as it concerns the bridge board - it is integrated to keep the form factor of the drive small and it helps prevent issues that could happen with the bridge board being a separate component.

Cheers
Click to expand...
dont know it was a personal drive of one of our users. she's now looking at a large bill for data recovery.

i appreciate its a size thing but its a daft decision. at least if the enclosure fails (most common issue with external drives) the drive can be split out and data accessed. with the port soldered on its game over without a large bill.

i'll be advising anyone that asks not to get a My Passport drive. like i say this is the second drive ive seen with this failure recently.
 
Last edited:
ricky1980 said:
~clip~ Motherboards have huge capacitors to ensure steady voltage and current supplies. The external drive don't have that as it relies on the USB supplies from the motherboard which can vary.
Click to expand...

Isn't that a contradiction?
 
chuckles said:
Isn't that a contradiction?
Click to expand...
No it is not. If you understand how the powers are regulated on a motherboard. Motherboard volt lines are protected by high capacity capacitors. That's why u see those marketing elements of black cap Japanese capacitors. Where the USB volt lines are regulated by MOSFET which are prone to fluctuations. A cheap board will have bear to nothing protection. A top end board will have a less than adaquate capacitor in front of the volt line.

Which is why u need a decent PSU that can supply stable 5V and 3V line. I have really been in the component industry for a while but I think that how thinga still run these days.

My corsair 660w is over 6 year old and it is the only component other than my PC case and CPU that u have not upgraded and don't see the point in upgrading (CPU maybe)
 
Last edited:
ricky1980 said:
No it is not. If you understand how the powers are regulated on a motherboard. Motherboard volt lines are protected by high capacity capacitors. That's why u see those marketing elements of black cap Japanese capacitors. Where the USB volt lines are regulated by MOSFET which are prone to fluctuations. A cheap board will have bear to nothing protection. A top end board will have a less than adaquate capacitor in front of the volt line.
Click to expand...
Hmm...

Motherboards don't use huge capacitors, they are relatively small as they need to be able to charge and discharge quickly - the larger the capacitor, the slower it is to charge. What the CPU power supply does though is provide huge current at low voltages and it does this through fast switching between different phases of the power supply (which is why the higher end boards have higher numbers of "phases"). The capacitors just take the extra strain for a short period of the cycle. Powering a CPU is incredibly demanding.

Also, capacitors are not there to provide protection, they are there to smooth out the ripples as the AC gets converted to DC and smooth the effects of varying load over time. Whilst I agree the power lines of a USB socket are of lower quality than the CPU power supplies, they have very different jobs to do and so have very different design parameters. A high end CPU dissipates up to 130W, yet it runs at 1.2V, meaning you have to supply 100+ amps into the CPU. Not only that, that's an average value - most power is drawn at the instant the CPU clocks transition and it's running at 3GHz, so spikes in demand will be coming along at nanosecond intervals. A USB supply is 5V at 500mA, so the demands on it are about 10,000 lower.

I kind os see where you're coming from, but it would only make sense if portable HDDs mainly died due to their electronics failing. I don't have statistics about this - do you?
 
I do have one died due to electrical issues. I know the drive was healthy and it was the USB power fluctuations that cause the controller to fry and subsequently the HDD was also done for. But yes most of the time they are mechanical failure.

I would prefer to use swappable drives as opposed to USB tho. At least there are more power rating on those volt lines so there is less likely to be fluctuations as well as you are using motherboard sata controller instead of a cheapo USB one.
 
Last edited:
neil_g said:
@Dorian_WD ..

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY.. have WD in all their wisdom soldered the USB3 connector straight to the hard drive control board on their My Passport models?

:banghead:
Click to expand...


So you go and buy another one... because we're all that stupid :)
 
ricky1980 said:
I do have one died due to electrical issues.
Click to expand...
How do you know this was due to worse quality power? There are 101 reasons it could have died including poor design in the enclosure (which is probably more likely TBH).
 
Pookeyhead said:
So you go and buy another one... because we're all that stupid :)
Click to expand...
Small form factor and cost.

We've a project using about 250 of these being mailed back and forth to seed data into a data centre for remote backup. Had a few fail which is disappointing as I have two of the older usb2 types (512gb and 1tb) that I've owned for years and live in a backpack that commutes by motorbike everyday in all weathers.

For backup at home, I have an online and, plus two offline large USB drives, swapped every other week and stored offsite.
 
Byker28i said:
Small form factor and cost.

We've a project using about 250 of these being mailed back and forth to seed data into a data centre for remote backup. Had a few fail which is disappointing as I have two of the older usb2 types (512gb and 1tb) that I've owned for years and live in a backpack that commutes by motorbike everyday in all weathers.

For backup at home, I have an online and, plus two offline large USB drives, swapped every other week and stored offsite.
Click to expand...

"MAILED backwards and forwards"?

It's a miracle they survive at all!
.
 
Can anyone recommend an easy way to sync my pictures on my PC to a NAS? I still want to access the pictures on the NAS so the shouldn't be in archive files.
I'm on Kubuntu. And the sync programs I have found so far can't access network locations. Or require specialist knowledge. I'm looking for a simple GUI solution.
 
rsync

If you use kubuntu, just drop to the command line, figure out what you want and then put it in a con job.
 
--- duplication ---
 
Last edited:
--- triplication --- :mad:
 
Last edited:
As always there are plenty of scripted options for Linux but as I was about to offer a similar response I noticed this...

".... I'm looking for a simple GUI solution"
 
Sorry for the repetition.... browser error and I don't seem to be able to edit :(
 
ianp5a said:
Yes. rsync is out of the question. I'm not a computer techie.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately for you, it is the one that will allow you to do what you want with the least hassle. What you want to do is probably a single command line and then dropping said command line into cron. I backup several machines (some Windows, some *nix) with a couple of well placed rsync commands.

GUIs have a lot to answer for these days.....
 
Thanks again. I dont mean to be funny but it seems you know your way round those sort of things, and probably don't mind working that way. And you might not have looked into the various GUI based applications available. What I need is some non techie advice. Maybe someone has found a slick app aimed at my technical skill level. Which is why I thought asking on a photography forum might be better than on a computer one.

The distros have been working hard to broaden the appeal of their desktop offerings. Making them easier to use these days. It's quite common to find techies comfortable with the command line and vi who are unaware of all the goodies designed for laymen these days. I'm not saying that is you. It just occurs a lot. Especially on computer forums.
 
Last edited:
ianp5a said:
The distros have been working hard to broaden the appeal of their desktop offerings. Making them easier to use these days.
Click to expand...
The real problem is that it's often easy to do simple things in a GUI, but quite often more difficult to do more complex things.

With Linux based GUIs all you are doing is formatting the arguments for the command line anyway - 99% of GUI tools just call out to the shell underneath.... Generally, all they effectively do is present the man page slightly differently (normally as popup boxes) and present the options differently.

A quick google of "GUI" and "rsync" pulls up: http://www.unixmen.com/grsync-gadmin-rsync-graphical-front-end-applications-rsync-tool/

Assuming you can map the NAS to a drive on the Kubuntu machine, I'd do a local to local transfer in the terminology on that page. Local to remote will be more involved as a setup and may involve some messing with the NAS (depends on which it is - it may have an rsync client of somesort on there).

Trust me, rsync is what you want to base your backup solution on - especially if you go over anything slower than gigabit to the NAS (wifi/powerlines etc...). It also allows you to do cool things like specify an exclude list of files, so is good if you know you want to backup "everything in directory a, but excluding everything in directory a/b" or "all files except ones ending in .abc" (for example).
 
Doing a backup is not a complex thing though. And there are many programs that have no problem browsing network places without resorting to "mounting" or other additional commands I'd suddenly need to learn.
I've already googled and tried Grsync. It neither accesses the network nor does it run automatically or periodically. Which is why I'm looking for a recommendation from someone who has experience with a particular program they find good.
Already you are delving into jargon and a world that I don't need. Trust me your advice is aimed at a different level. I've seen it all to often where the first "simple" command doesn't work as suggested, so then another and another command is needed. Each time the "user" has to copy paste the output back to the techie, so he knows what is happening. And all unnecessary when there must be solutions out there.
I know you are trying to be helpful. A formula one car may be fast, but all I need is a shopping car with a hatchback.
 
Last edited:
I don't see an advantage to the user that one UI has to talk to another UI rather than going via an API. But fine. As long as the users don't see that, that's OK. Fortunately distro developers are all working hard developing great GUIs. They understand the need to save users from the command line with its disastrous usability and poor learn-ability. Have you read the output of many commands in the terminal from the viewpoint of a non techie user? Gobbledegook for someone who doesn't normally ever use a command line. Everything there is unfamiliar and has to be learnt new.

Surely it is good that a GUI app can give the correct, expert syntax. Way better than me or my 10 year old daughter pasting commands from a forum in and being totally reliant on someone in a forum for every step. I rely on a lot of great applications where I can see all my options, previous settings and can preview what will happen, and can undo any with just a click on a checkbox. In fact I can do much more, as it is all easy. With a command line I'd be relieved to just get the basics working and stick with that.

Anyway this is an old debate. And it's clear which is the more successful way. And it only pops up from time to time when someone has not spent time much time on usability, ergonomics, and learn-ability. Which is a particular interest of mine.

Sadly, talk of using the command line scares many away from Linux. Which is a shame as I've never needed to use it in all the time I've used Linux.

Thanks for the link. Many of those put the backup in a special archive file. So I would not be able to browse my photos from another computer.
 
Last edited:
ianp5a said:
Anyway this is an old debate. And it's clear which is the more successful way. And it only pops up from time to time when someone has not spent time much time on usability, ergonomics, and learn-ability. Which is a particular interest of mine.
Click to expand...
You may think command line usability is low (I'd disagree with that, but then I use it day in, day out and know what it can do) but productivity with it is WAY higher than with a UI. Those that use command line don't do it as some form of badge of honour, we use it because it is the quickest way to get things done. Rather than searching for backup tools though, you probably want to be looking for mirroring software - it describes what you want to do.

Linux distros are weak on fully integrated GUIs that hide stuff IMHO. If you want a *nix that is designed to be driven from the UI, take a look at Apple products (yes, you did read that right, I just suggested an Apple product without it sticking in my throat :D). I've no idea what the Apple equivalent is though.
 
Right so suggesting to someone that never uses the command line, that it is the right thing for them, regardless of their skill set, where they'd have to learn quite a lot just for that one task is probably not the best solution.

Dont put the linux distros down so. In the mean time they offer a lot in the GUI area. I use them purely via the GUIs. I'm just asking for a recommendation of good app. If you are not into GUIs then thats fine. Others might know about one though.
 
i use allway sync to sync up my live and backup (options to not propagate deletions are in there etc).

there is a small charge to allow for large data volumes.

or robocopy, that has a GUI interface and a script backend if you so wish.
 
Well I followed up on your suggestions anyway and found links to other candidates that I didn't know about. If any turn out to be a super-duper one I'll post back here.
 
Last edited:
ianp5a said:
Right so suggesting to someone that never uses the command line, that it is the right thing for them, regardless of their skill set, where they'd have to learn quite a lot just for that one task is probably not the best solution.

Dont put the linux distros down so. In the mean time they offer a lot in the GUI area. I use them purely via the GUIs. I'm just asking for a recommendation of good app. If you are not into GUIs then thats fine. Others might know about one though.
Click to expand...
If you take on a Linux distro, you will end up needing the command line at some point. Or spend weeks looking for something that packages the command line for you in a way you want it. You could have written the one liner (because that's all it is) you need to sync the two filesystems by now and have it working - even from a standing start of knowing absolutely nothing. Take a plunge... you might see the light ;)

There's only one thing worse than someone who swears the command line is best... and that's someone who must run stuff from a GUI ;) :p
 
I'd hoped you'd have understood by now. You definitely don't need the command line in modern Linux distros. That is pure scaremongering. And missing all the hard work they have put in.

Please understand that not all users are the same. And will not all be well served with the same solution. You might like the challenge and feel proud of hacking something together. I'd prefer to find one program that has all the options in one place, instead of learning, what you said, is quite simple, but in reality I'd have to learn about rsync then a way to get it to run at certain times or detect new files. Then yet another command to read the docs and then mess around with text editors and copy pasting commands and paths. I might even have to learn how to mount the drive or mess with fstab or samba and find an IP address. And even if one of those is not required, if I don't know my way around, and something doesn't work right, I will end up trying all sorts of things people on forums suggest.
Now you will say that is all useful learning. But in fact it is "useless" as I will never ever need it for anything else. I have "not" moved forward, or seen the light. And if I want to make any changes 1 year later, I'd have to relearn everything again!

You might like hacking something together and feel proud you have achieved something, but ask yourself the question, are all users like you? Are we all the same? Which different tools suit the different user types with different skill sets?

I suspect you don't have a great interest in ergonomics and user interaction. Fine. Then don't be surprised if other people are better served going a different way. Where they use sophisticated GUIs to do complex things. Very few people use the command line for email or editing photos or presentations. Good luck with that.
 
Last edited:
Not yet. But that doesn't change the principles. That doesn't reduce the amount of hacking I'd have to learn or make me a hacker. It might show how tiny the Linux user Base is compared to other OSs. But I'm not the one scaring people off of it.

Did you get my point about user types not all being the same?
 
Last edited:
ianp5a said:
Did you get my point about user types not all being the same?
Click to expand...
Yes. Did you get my point about using the right tool for the job?

Assuming you can access your NAS from the Linux machine as a "local drive" in some way (and you probably already know how to do that since you mention the tools you'd need to do it in the post a few up from this), the command you need is:

rsync -a <source dir> <dest dir>

Where <source dir> is the source directory, <dest dir> is the destination directory. If you want to make sure the files are kept in sync (i.e. when something gets deleted from the source dir, it gets deleted from the destination dir) it's:

rsync -a --delete <source dir> <dest dir>

If you want it to be verbose (sorry, I mean "tell you what's going on whilst I run this crazy command") so you can see what files are being copied (and deleted), it's:

rsync -a -v --delete <source dir> <dest dir>

To store the output so you can review it later, it's:

rsync -a -v --delete <source dir> <dest dir> > /tmp/files-copied.txt 2>&1

(OK, the last bit of that command is confusing, I admit).

To run it at set times (say every 15 minutes of every day) it's:

crontab -e

then in the file you are presented to edit it's:

0/15 * * * * <whatever the command you had above>

To find information on any command without using a GUI:

man <command name>

But I'm sure the GUI tool that you haven't found yet is much easier.
 
arad85 said:
Yes. Did you get my point about using the right tool for the job?

Assuming you can access your NAS from the Linux machine as a "local drive" in some way (and you probably already know how to do that since you mention the tools you'd need to do it in the post a few up from this), the command you need is:

rsync -a <source dir> <dest dir>

Where <source dir> is the source directory, <dest dir> is the destination directory. If you want to make sure the files are kept in sync (i.e. when something gets deleted from the source dir, it gets deleted from the destination dir) it's:

rsync -a --delete <source dir> <dest dir>

If you want it to be verbose (sorry, I mean "tell you what's going on whilst I run this crazy command") so you can see what files are being copied (and deleted), it's:

rsync -a -v --delete <source dir> <dest dir>

To store the output so you can review it later, it's:

rsync -a -v --delete <source dir> <dest dir> > /tmp/files-copied.txt 2>&1

(OK, the last bit of that command is confusing, I admit).

To run it at set times (say every 15 minutes of every day) it's:

crontab -e

then in the file you are presented to edit it's:

0/15 * * * * <whatever the command you had above>

To find information on any command without using a GUI:

man <command name>

But I'm sure the GUI tool that you haven't found yet is much easier.
Click to expand...


I'm with Ian, my head is fair spinning after reading that with my breakfast:(
 
Mikesphotaes said:
I'm with Ian, my head is fair spinning after reading that with my breakfast:(
Click to expand...
A lathe is a complex and precise tool. You would be confused the first time someone took you through using it - especially if it was a very brief introduction. Having said that, if you want to make objects that a lathe is suitable for producing, you'd persevere.... If you try and find someone to do it for you - you'd better understand the language they use and what a lathe can do if you want good results.

YMMV, but don't shoot the messenger.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top