Average Speed Cameras

[Cobra]

A lot of false plates out there now.
apparently that's how so many uninsured drivers are on the roads and not getting caught.
just cloning plates. you can order them off ebay.

And of course showing your log book ( or whatever its called now) and your driving licence, when ordering new or replacement plates was supposed to stop all this ...
Epic fail

 

[Mr Bump]

And of course showing your log book ( or whatever its called now) and your driving licence, when ordering new or replacement plates was supposed to stop all this ...
Epic fail

I just took one of my personal plates of a motor bike and reverted it to a DVLA gifted one and just went on to ebay to order the new plate, £8 all done

 

[Cobra]

I just took one of my personal plates of a motor bike and reverted it to a DVLA gifted one and just went on to ebay to order the new plate, £8 all done

When someone smacked my front plate and broke a bit off, I went to Halfords ( Yeah I know, but they are local)
I though the guy was going to ask me for a pint of blood and a sample of my urine too!
( it was awhile ago, but IIRC it was 15 quid for just the front )

 

[Marc]

b****r that's no margin for error at all is it?
The Bedfordshire Police, issued a statement recently that due to being short of funds ( yes really) the over head gantry camera's, on the M1,
will be set to zero tolerance I'm not sure that they have implemented that as yet though.

( It should be a hell of a Christmas party if they do though )

Interesting given that speeding fines don't go to the police.

 

[Byker28i]

No, I don't mean I was uncertain of how they work, I'm just curious how, when I drive at an average speed of around 55mph, I am frequently being passed by other drivers, some going significantly faster.

Some stats I was given is that they currently report about 1200 drivers a day on the M3 temp area

 

[Cobra]

Interesting given that speeding fines don't go to the police.

That's what I thought too, but that was the report in the citizen!

 

[Marc]

That's what I thought too, but that was the report in the citizen!

Ah, the local press.

 

[Cobra]

Ah, the local press.

Its local, news for local people, so it has to be true

But the actual zero tolerance was true it was a direct quote from the head cooper, it had his picture there and everything

 

[Mr Bump]

Are motorbikes still exempt from these cameras as we only have rear plates and the cameras are front facing.

About 5 years ago I was working a contract in wakefield and regualary using the M62 during there 50mph crisis and I just ran them most days at 60mph+ for about 8 months never a ticket.

 

[Byker28i]

No. It’s an average speed of 50mph between cameras one and 2, then an average of 50mph between cameras 2 and 3, and so on and so forth…NOT an average of 50mph between camera 1 and 15 (or however many there are).

Each section you are logged as exceeding that average is a separate speeding offence.

So if you think you’ve been clocked once, it’s no good thinking “Oh sod it, might as well…” and putting your foot down.

Sorry that's not true anymore. When installed, they record the distance between each camera and hence know the distance between the start of the camera/speed control zone and the end. Your speed can be measured across the whole stretch, not just between two cameras. The cameras read the numberplates and accurate time in passing, thats it. It's the application that knows the distances, calculates the speed and automatically generates the output/ticket

 

[viv1969]

Interesting given that speeding fines don't go to the police.

Aye...Not called the Treasury for nothing

 

[Cobra]

I can't find the local news comment, but its pretty much the same article, from what I remember.

"But rather than being used to improve road safety, the controversial plan is intended to raise millions of pounds in revenue for the police.
The “zero-tolerance” approach to motorway speeding is the brainchild of Bedfordshire Police and would be rolled out across a busy stretch of the M1, used by tens of thousands of cars each day".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ce-approach-to-speeding-on-the-motorways.html

 

[Cobra]

Are motorbikes still exempt from these cameras as we only have rear plates and the cameras are front facing.

Although there are still a few front firing camera's, they are wise to that one now and most fixed cameras are now rear firing, both the instant and the average...
hard luck

 

[Hazza]

Sorry that's not true anymore. When installed, they record the distance between each camera and hence know the distance between the start of the camera/speed control zone and the end. Your speed can be measured across the whole stretch, not just between two cameras. The cameras read the numberplates and accurate time in passing, thats it. It's the application that knows the distances, calculates the speed and automatically generates the output/ticket

Is that so? Is this just for new ones?

Sometimes when I'm in a hurry in between the camera sets on the A14 between Huntington and Cambridge I'll speed up a bit if I can, that said I'm probably still averaging less than 79 over the whole run.

Just curious as to whether I need to be more careful!

 

[Mr Bump]

Although there are still a few front firing camera's, they are wise to that one now and most fixed cameras are now rear firing, both the instant and the average...
hard luck

fixed ones are now mainly rear but all the average ones look to be front facing

 

[Cobra]

fixed ones are now mainly rear but all the average ones look to be front facing

The ones I pass regularly are all rear facing M25 ( road works and Dartford crossing) A14 ( Cambridge stretch)

edit, and they seem to be getting smaller too, so not that obvious when mounted on a gantry

 

[viv1969]

Sorry that's not true anymore. When installed, they record the distance between each camera and hence know the distance between the start of the camera/speed control zone and the end. Your speed can be measured across the whole stretch, not just between two cameras. The cameras read the numberplates and accurate time in passing, thats it. It's the application that knows the distances, calculates the speed and automatically generates the output/ticket

Don't have to be sorry
That's clearly changed since late 2013 then.
No wonder my colleague still grumbles like an old fart

 

[viv1969]

fixed ones are now mainly rear but all the average ones look to be front facing

Still loads of Truvelos in Kent.

 

[cambsno]

Not ridiculous at all.
If you burgle three houses in the same street within minutes, or the SAME house three times in a day, (for instance) it's three burglary offences.
He was a pillock, he drove too fast, and he got caught by three separate sets of cameras, therefore he was issued with 3 NIPs and under the totting up of points system, lost his licence.
Now he rides a pushbike.

But if he was over the speed limit for the whole bit that is one offence??

 

[cambsno]

Is that so? Is this just for new ones?

Sometimes when I'm in a hurry in between the camera sets on the A14 between Huntington and Cambridge I'll speed up a bit if I can, that said I'm probably still averaging less than 79 over the whole run.

Just curious as to whether I need to be more careful!

Since when can you do over 70 on the a14!!!!

 

[Steep]

But if he was over the speed limit for the whole bit that is one offence??

No one said he was speeding for the whole distance though did they? Above-below-Above-below-below-Above-ByeBye license

 

[viv1969]

But if he was over the speed limit for the whole bit that is one offence??

At the time he was clocked breaking the average speed between 2 cameras on three separate sections of the same roadworks on the same day.
He only passed in that direction once.
No 2-camera sections ran consecutively.
So, for arguments sake, there were 16 cameras. He was clocked exceeding the average (by some margin I might add) between camera 3-4, 9-10 & 15-16.
Therefore he was issued with three separate penalties for three separate offenses.
Each penalty carries 3 points and he already had three unspent points.
total 12 points = bye bye licence.

 

[Pezza4u]

Living next to the M25 I use it a lot and always stick to the limit (or slightly over) now, although I can remember where the vast majority of the cameras are. I have seen the cameras flash in the gantries when the temporary speed restrictions are in place and also the ones mounted to the side of the motorway. I did a speed awareness course a couple of years ago and someone there got caught by average speed cameras when they were doing the roadworks.

If I know there are cameras I never chance it now, it's just not worth the risk and the course was boring as hell, I can't be doing one of those again!

 

[Cobra]

since when can you do over 70 on the a14!!!!

He's probably there at the same time I am, silly O'clock in the morning.

I can remember where the vast majority of the cameras are.

J23- J29 for the HADEC's ( side mounted sneaky bastids) Tunnel / bridge side, there are probably more on the "other side" Heathrow / Gatwick, but I rarely use that stretch.

and also the ones mounted to the side of the motorway.

I'm sure I've seen them flash too, but others have said they don't flash, I'm with you on that.

I can't be doing one of those again!

I think its once in a life time anyway?

 

[morfis]

I think its once in a life time anyway?

Not sure if all areas are the same but if you don't get caught for a few years some will offer you another course. I know people in Cumbria, Lancashire and Staffordshire who have had more than one course. In one case it was thirteen months after his previous one.

 

[Pezza4u]

J23- J29 for the HADEC's ( side mounted sneaky bastids) Tunnel / bridge side, there are probably more on the "other side" Heathrow / Gatwick, but I rarely use that stretch.

I use J17-J29 mainly, there are quite a few around Enfield now, J24-J26.

I'm sure I've seen them flash too, but others have said they don't flash, I'm with you on that.

The ones I've seen are in the location above and when they first installed them and no one realised they flashed constantly!

I think its once in a life time anyway?

I believe it's every 3 years you can do the course.

 

[Cobra]

Not sure if all areas are the same but if you don't get caught for a few years some will offer you another course. I know people in Cumbria, Lancashire and Staffordshire who have had more than one course. In one case it was thirteen months after his previous one.

I think its a once in a life time thing down here, Thames Valley, well it was maybe its changed.
But yes it also sounds as though it maybe regional.

 

[Cobra]

I use J17-J29 mainly, there are quite a few around Enfield now, J24-J26.

And only one is painted yellow, the rest merge into the bank / back ground, of course they are there to make you slow down, and not to trap you

I believe it's every 3 years you can do the course.

As above, maybe its changed then.

 

[Gremlin]

J23- J29 for the HADEC's ( side mounted sneaky bastids) Tunnel / bridge side, there are probably more on the "other side" Heathrow / Gatwick, but I rarely use that stretch.

I used to do M1 to Guildford (J10?) late evening at 90mph all the way, luckily never got caught. even patrol cars seemed to ignore people
everyone seemed to be doing that speed
Daytime, well think 20/30mph if you are lucky

 

[Hazza]

Since when can you do over 70 on the a14!!!!

Early Saturday/Sunday mornings. Weekdays it's just an elephant race I'll grant you that

 

[BBR]

Speed cameras are simply a revenue generating mechanism, especially on motorways. What we need are more police in unmarked cars to catch the absolute F****** W*****s that weave in and out, cut people up, tailgate etc. These are the people who cause accidents.

A colleague of mine got a NIP for doing 56 mph through M6 roadworks (50 MPH limit), so average speed cameras do work.

People knowingly driving on false plates, when caught, should get a mandatory custodial sentence, IMO.

 

[Cobra]

People knowingly driving on false plates, when caught, should get a mandatory custodial sentence, IMO.

VOSA had a bit of a "thing" going on, awhile back, where I was working, I was flying a deterrent hawk, and we obviously got chatting.
( I'm not sure that using government property to take images of my birds was technically the "right thing" to do though )
Anyhow, I digress, it does seem that when they catch them, they do crush the cars, well that is, that was the score at that particular location

 

[viv1969]

Speed cameras are simply a revenue generating mechanism, especially on motorways. What we need are more police in unmarked cars to catch the absolute F****** W*****s that weave in and out, cut people up, tailgate etc. These are the people who cause accidents.

A colleague of mine got a NIP for doing 56 mph through M6 roadworks (50 MPH limit), so average speed cameras do work.

People knowingly driving on false plates, when caught, should get a mandatory custodial sentence, IMO.

Revenue generators for sure.
However, all revenue is voluntarily donated.

 

[Cobra]

Revenue generators for sure.
However, all revenue is voluntarily donated.

Breaking the 11th commandment tends to do that

( Thou shalt not get caught )

 

[camerassassin]

I remember these going into use

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-36585529

If I recall correctly, the Police had a wonderful time with them when they first went operational - no-one believed they worked - but they did and for some weeks there were regular reports as to the number of folk who were caught.

Slowly people in the West of Scotland realised that they would just have to be careful - if not they would be contributing cash !!

Now we have the huge long stretch of M74, M73 and A8 to M8 covered by them [ blasted roadworks ] it's surprising the number of folk who will pass you at waaay over 50mph.

Me - I want to keep my clean licence so stick at just under 50 on cruise control

 

[StewartR]

... And Your speed can be measured across the whole stretch, not just between two cameras. The cameras read the numberplates and accurate time in passing, thats it. It's the application that knows the distances, calculates the speed and automatically generates the output/ticket

OK, mathematical fact: if your average speed between two cameras which are not consecutive exceeded the limit, then there *must* be at least one pair of consecutive cameras between which your speed exceeded the limit.

The proof of this is left as an exercise for the reader, as some of my textbooks used to say.

Suppose there are 4 cameras 1, 2, 3, 4. If your average speed over the whole stretch 1-4 was too high, then it must have been too high on 1-2 and/or 2-3 and/or 3-4. Without loss of generality, let's suppose it was 1-2. Now if you were prosecuted for speeding on the 1-2 stretch and also on the 1-4 stretch, that would be two prosecutions for the same offence. I think we all think that's not what would happen. So you can be prosecuted for 1-4 or 1-2, but not both. (And in fact you can also be prosecuted for 1-3; another exercise which is left to the reader.)

What would happen in practice? It seems overwhelmingly likely to me that you would be prosecuted for 1-2. There's just no point designing the system to calculate the speeds over the stretches 1-3, 2-4 and 3-4, because it's mathematically guaranteed that if you exceeded the limit on one of them you'll also have exceeded the limit on 1-2, 2-3 or 3-4. And imagine how many combinations the system would need to look at if there were, say, 15 cameras in one long stretch! (Answer: 105, and for N cameras the number of combinations is N*(N-1)/2, the proof of which....)

So the simplest, most straightforward system is just to calculate the average speeds between pairs of adjacent cameras. It cuts down hugely on calculation and data storage requirements and it doesn't miss any opportunities for prosecutions.

 

[boyfalldown]

Buggers have just added them along the A316 (from where it stops being the M£ to Chiswick bridge) and the North Circular

 

[Gremlin]

Surely "average speed" means just that, between all sets of cameras?
You can't have an average between 1 set unless it's for everytime you go thriugh that set.

 

[Gremlin]

A lot of false plates out there now.
apparently that's how so many uninsured drivers are on the roads and not getting caught.
just cloning plates. you can order them off ebay.

That's the downfall of not having to display a valid tax disc, no one knows,and if the police do a check on a vehicle with
false plates it will show the legit one, only comes to light if they get caught and so easy to just get another set
Hence my never showing plates of any vehicle picture l post in the net

 

[Byker28i]

OK, mathematical fact: if your average speed between two cameras which are not consecutive exceeded the limit, then there *must* be at least one pair of consecutive cameras between which your speed exceeded the limit.

The proof of this is left as an exercise for the reader, as some of my textbooks used to say.

Suppose there are 4 cameras 1, 2, 3, 4. If your average speed over the whole stretch 1-4 was too high, then it must have been too high on 1-2 and/or 2-3 and/or 3-4. Without loss of generality, let's suppose it was 1-2. Now if you were prosecuted for speeding on the 1-2 stretch and also on the 1-4 stretch, that would be two prosecutions for the same offence. I think we all think that's not what would happen. So you can be prosecuted for 1-4 or 1-2, but not both. (And in fact you can also be prosecuted for 1-3; another exercise which is left to the reader.)

What would happen in practice? It seems overwhelmingly likely to me that you would be prosecuted for 1-2. There's just no point designing the system to calculate the speeds over the stretches 1-3, 2-4 and 3-4, because it's mathematically guaranteed that if you exceeded the limit on one of them you'll also have exceeded the limit on 1-2, 2-3 or 3-4. And imagine how many combinations the system would need to look at if there were, say, 15 cameras in one long stretch! (Answer: 105, and for N cameras the number of combinations is N*(N-1)/2, the proof of which....)

So the simplest, most straightforward system is just to calculate the average speeds between pairs of adjacent cameras. It cuts down hugely on calculation and data storage requirements and it doesn't miss any opportunities for prosecutions.

I can only tell you how they work, as we work with the company that designs, builds, delivers and installs the systems. The data is just put into a database, the cameras can read the plates in all weathers, times of day, across two lanes at incredible speeds. The servers that run the calculations aren't actually excessively big and fast (and hence expensive) but they use multiple ones and don't forget have two weeks to notify the speeder.